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Thread: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

  1. #1

    Default Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)





    In update 1.18, the fix of crashes was added to the program when using monster units in battle (spiders, ents, etc.). If someone has a desire, then you can check this fix - I will be glad to hear feedback about it.


    To activate the fix in the modConfig.youneuoycfg file, you need to set the DCI = 1 parameter



    Be sure to read this thread: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...am-in-pictures
    Last edited by youneuoy; July 12, 2020 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Good, you made the thread. I am still busy with other stuff, but will get to it in the coming days
    In the meanwhile I shared the link to this thread in the DCI:LA development forum.

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  3. #3
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    I finally got around to do some testing with your program. It took me a long time to get it working. The instructions weren't the problem, but getting Bitdefender to leave the exe file alone was a bit of challenge. I managed in the end, but I think I will not have seen the last of Bitdefender interfering. Also I got Windows refusing me to get the HotSeat_tool.exe unzipped in the Third_Age_3 folder, after my battle with Bit defender. Not sure what was wrong there, as my account certainly has the right permissions and it also owned the folder. In the end I had to delete the Third_Age_3 folder I was using, copy in a new one and voila, it worked.
    This may not happen to everybody, but it still is a bit problematic, next to having an extra exe file besides the installer. The latter can be avoided by using a zip file. I understand that your program won't work without the exe though.

    Testing:

    I started with custom battles which is a good test as the creatures always managed to crash in custom eventually, even when sometimes a few battles wouldn't.

    Going for the maximal result I played 7 custom battles with 20 units of different creatures on every side. Everything was played till there was a victory and in real time. Much of the time the camera zoomed in close to the units.

    20 Ents against 20 Wolves: Pass
    20 Great Huorns against 20 Werewolves: Pass
    20 Werewolves against 20 Spiders: Pass (this one went on for half an hour)
    6 Spiders, 6 Wild Wolves, 6 White Wolves, 2 Ent rebels against 10 Huorns, 10 Ents: Pass
    20 Great Huorns against 20 Ents: Pass
    20 Ents against 20 Ent Rebels: Pass
    20 Wolves against 20 Wolves: Pass

    The AI struggled when putting two identical units against each other, but at least one of the two sides actually battled normally.

    The result certainly looks promising.
    Last edited by Veteraan; July 15, 2020 at 10:10 AM.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Veteraan

    Well, great.

    Unfortunately, I cannot do anything about the need to disable the antivirus - without the help of code, which the antivirus does not like, it is impossible to create such programs.
    Also, it does not seem to me that the installation is complicated and usually the modder should do it for the user (in theory). This is not a small patch that fixes one problem, but a rather complex solution that seriously expands the game's capabilities

  5. #5
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by youneuoy View Post
    Unfortunately, I cannot do anything about the need to disable the antivirus - without the help of code, which the antivirus does not like, it is impossible to create such programs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    I understand that your program won't work without the exe though.
    Your program is great, but I think you have a much to optimistic view of the average player. To you the installation is not complicated, I got it to work also (after you provided some much needed info on how to actually do that). In the end I spent most of the time getting it to work on fighting my virus scanner, but that is indeed not something you can change, given the nature of your program. It's also something the modder can't 'fix' for the players.

    Having said that, I would still want to make the program available for our players, because of the creature fix. In fact ideally it should be available for all TATW players that suffer from the creature crashes. With permission from you of course. I expect you will be credited by every mod team that uses it, the DCI:LA team certainly would. Ideally we should try to keep it as lean and simple as possible. The vast majority of players is not at all interested in the modding/development aspect, they just want to play games.

    I did a very short test with Ents in the actual campaign a few days ago. Played one battle and that went well. I will play some real battles (hopefully) with the creatures as they are present in DCI:LA, while playing a regular campaign and see how that goes.

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    Your program is great, but I think you have a much to optimistic view of the average player. To you the installation is not complicated, I got it to work also (after you provided some much needed info on how to actually do that). In the end I spent most of the time getting it to work on fighting my virus scanner, but that is indeed not something you can change, given the nature of your program. It's also something the modder can't 'fix' for the players.

    Having said that, I would still want to make the program available for our players, because of the creature fix. In fact ideally it should be available for all TATW players that suffer from the creature crashes. With permission from you of course. I expect you will be credited by every mod team that uses it, the DCI:LA team certainly would. Ideally we should try to keep it as lean and simple as possible. The vast majority of players is not at all interested in the modding/development aspect, they just want to play games.

    I did a very short test with Ents in the actual campaign a few days ago. Played one battle and that went well. I will play some real battles (hopefully) with the creatures as they are present in DCI:LA, while playing a regular campaign and see how that goes.
    It is not necessary to fight against the antivirus - just disable it. It seems to me that an ordinary user can do this, and this is written in the instructions for the program If someone offers a solution to this problem, then I will be happy to use it. Also, not all antiviruses recognize the program as a threat. On VirusTotal, I only have 11/70 detections.


    Next, about the inclusion in the modifications:
    In general, I am not against something like this, for this the project was created

    I want the user to be able to choose the installation method. Such a small whim) Still, I try to actively update the program, add new features, etc., I would like users to know about them.
    I would also like you to give credits in a post with modification, with a link to our(my) subforum.
    And of course, I would like your active participation in the discussion of the program’s capabilities (including those already planned or already implemented), some kind of feedback based on the results of use, etc.




    I think that as an option you can make two archives with a mod - one completely ready, and the second without my program, and in addition to this, instructions for adapting to your mod.
    Or another option - a completely ready-made mod, but without the M2TW Engine Overhaul Project files included in its composition. Next to the link to this mod, you can place a link to the archive with the version of the M2TW Engine Overhaul Project fully adapted for your mod and another one leading to our subforum on twcenter for experienced users (of course, with instructions on how to configure this for this particular mod).
    If you have any other suggestions on how to distribute them, I do not mind listening to them.
    Last edited by youneuoy; July 17, 2020 at 08:39 PM.

  7. #7
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Whitelisting the exe on your av should do it, that is if you manage to unzip it first. Which is why it should be customary to disable av, unzip the file, whitelist it, re enable the av. It would seem kind of shady but the way the program works editing memory of course it would raise the average av alarm. Eventually if youneuoy wills it he could use github or something like that to release the code to dispell any doubts people could have.
    PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
    Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
    Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Whitelisting the exe on your av should do it, that is if you manage to unzip it first. Which is why it should be customary to disable av, unzip the file, whitelist it, re enable the av. It would seem kind of shady but the way the program works editing memory of course it would raise the average av alarm. Eventually if youneuoy wills it he could use github or something like that to release the code to dispell any doubts people could have.
    Well, the source code of the program was seen by Callistonian and Jojo00182 from this forum They did not write to anyone about any threat, which means it is not there.
    If someone has a desire to look at the code (and especially if someone has a desire to help in writing it), then I am always ready to provide it.
    Last edited by youneuoy; July 18, 2020 at 12:03 PM.

  9. #9
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Oh Im not saying theres a threat at all, I'm running the program without issues and confidence. Im saying that eventually you could use github both for development and people seeing their av alerts are bollocks.
    PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
    Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
    Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
    Y también quieres jugar Stainless Steel 100% en español? Mira por aca.

  10. #10
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    For the record, I too was and am not concerned about the file itself. But I would not be inclined to advise players to disable their anti virus software. Even when there is an instruction on how to do that, and how to turn it back on I hope. This is probably not a problem for the folks that visit this forum, but I have seen a lot of people messing up even the simplest of instructions.

    I use bitdefender myself. It's one of the bigger parties when it concerns anti-virus solutions. I do not disable it, but rather let it do its scanning, which leads to the Hotseat Tool.exe file being moved to quarantaine. I then simply use the option to restore it and the file is placed back where it originally was and it automatically is added to the exceptions. As long as I don't move the folder it's in or change something in its path, or rename the file, it will not be an issue again.

    Many people have no idea how to do such things and much of them aren't inclined to figure it out.

    On a happier note, I have been playing a DCI:LA campaign for 100+ turns with the program enabled. There were some battles with an Ent unit present and one with Ents and some spiders. That went well. Also I have not noticed any strange things happening while playing. Just a small test really, but still good news.
    Last edited by Veteraan; July 20, 2020 at 03:44 PM.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    (I know this doesnt really belong here but if you crashing cause you are using the old third age total war skeletons, you could fix these so people that dont want to use the engine overhaul can also play without crashes. Not sure if there is more wrong with then than that, but other mods have monsters without crashes)

  12. #12
    Araval's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Tested you fix in a campaign setting (battle AI script in play), played a two battles with a 3/4 stack of ents, once against a full stack of Werewolves and once against a full stack of spiders and had no crash.

  13. #13
    Louis Lux's Avatar Into the Light
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo00182 View Post
    (I know this doesnt really belong here but if you crashing cause you are using the old third age total war skeletons, you could fix these so people that dont want to use the engine overhaul can also play without crashes. Not sure if there is more wrong with then than that, but other mods have monsters without crashes)
    The Third Age skeletons/animations are not available for editing (nor Alreadydead's). Briarius has made the skeleton/animations available for editing for his wolves. However after editing the skeletons and animations the crashes have persisted in DCI. Unless someone comes forward with a better solution than this is the only available solution to the crashes.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    You unpack the skeleton.dat and give me the crashing skeletons. To fix the crash that i mentioned the game just needs a bone with the tag of bone_E_plattform for an elephant skeleton (which is a single number behind the first bone which i can add for you). This number normally gets added when the game finds the required bone name while packing. But since TATW uses infantry bone names for their elephant skeletons it has the mandatory bone-tags for infantry (4: bone_Lhand 5: bone_Rhand 6: bone_head 7: bone_torso 8: bone_abs 9: bone_pelvis)and not the number 2 for the bone_E_platform.

  15. #15
    Louis Lux's Avatar Into the Light
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    I included the unpacked skeleton file for the wolves and the milkshape files with the custom skeleton provided by briarius. https://www.dropbox.com/s/162uv6hpyw...wolves.7z?dl=0

    How do you go about editing an unpacked skeleton file? There doesn't seem to be any information on the subject in twcenter, or I haven't been able to find it.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    I analyzed the structure of the skeleton files and use a hexeditor to edit them (010 Editor).
    I think i uploaded an earlier version of my analysis together with JohnWhile's fileformats in misc-section.

    Edit: Are you using the wolves as mounts or elephants? (The skeleton seems to be correct for a mount)
    Last edited by Jojo00182; August 01, 2020 at 10:54 PM.

  17. #17
    Louis Lux's Avatar Into the Light
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    They're elephant units. Here is the descr_mount entry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    type mount wolf
    class elephant
    model Mount_Wolf
    radius 0.8 ;changed from
    x_radius 0.8 ;changed from
    y_offset 0.05
    height 3
    mass 1 ;changed from 4.0 29/4/05
    banner_height 1
    bouyancy_offset 3
    water_trail_effect elephant_water_trail
    root_node_height 2.5 ;was 2.84
    attack_delay 1
    dead_radius 0.6 ;was 1.1
    tusk_z 0.8
    tusk_radius 0.8
    riders 3
    rider_offset 0.05, 1.35, 1.37
    rider_offset -0.3, 1.22, 0.4 ;y was 1.54
    rider_offset 0.3, 1.22, -.35 ;y was 1.54

  18. #18

    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    If it is an elephant, rename the first bone to bone_E_platform. (In the .cas that you use for the basepose, or in all .cas to be sure(use GOAT's Export skeleton))
    Also may i see your descr_skeleton entry for it?
    Last edited by Jojo00182; August 02, 2020 at 07:35 AM.

  19. #19
    Louis Lux's Avatar Into the Light
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    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    What I did to try and fix the crashes before:

    -converted all the m2tw_wolf cas files to txt using goat
    -replaced all mentions of the bone_h_saddle with bone_e_platform in all the cas files
    -converted the txt files back to cas
    -unpacked the TATW animations
    -If I remember correctly I packed and unpacked the MTW2_Wolf with the modified cas files
    -added the MTW2_Wolf folder to the TATW animations folder
    -packed the TATW animations
    -renamed the bone_h_saddle to bone_e_platform in the ms3d file and converted it to mesh
    -included briarius descr_skeleton and descr_mount entries
    -added export_descr_unit and battle_models.modeldb entries

    Here are the cas and txt files and the descr_skeleton and descr_mount entries https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0a0nt15md...es_cas.7z?dl=0

    The above method did not work.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Creatures crash fix(TATW, DCI, etc)

    Just to be sure, cause iam getting a feeling here: Did you pack the .cas files in a different mod (like bare_geomod with the downloaded original cas files) and then moved the animationset and animations from that mod's skeleton.dat&pack.dat to TATW's skeleton.dat&pack.dat?
    Last edited by Jojo00182; August 03, 2020 at 02:26 AM.

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