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Thread: Fort Variations

  1. #1
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Fort Variations

    Is it possible to have faction variations for fort battle maps?

    It's possible to have faction variations for fort strategy models but if another faction captures the fort it will switch to that faction's variation (or else revert to the culture default if that faction doesn't have a variation). Unfortunately, this mechanic is somewhat wasted since I can't figure out how to make the battle map change as well.

    So, is there any way to make the fort battle map change or else to prevent the strat model faction variation from changing when another faction captures the fort?

  2. #2
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    Leo's tutorial answers that issue I suppose, eg 'unlimited' fort battle models are theoretically possible.










  3. #3
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    Yes, but the fort battle map seemingly can't be changed. Any given fort on the map has a worldpkgdesc file at turn 1 and there is no way to get it to use any other worldpkgdesc file at any later time in the campaign. This is unfortunate because forts that use faction variants for their strat model will change strat models as soon as another faction captures the fort (leaving the battle map unchanged). There is no limit on the number of fort battle maps, but it seems each fort on the map can have only one for the whole campaign.

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    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    The faction_variant is a bummer for the strat map agreed, I wasn't actually aware that a model based on it would change when another faction occupies it. I suppose the same would be then true for any strat model based on that principle.
    Will make for a pretty weird WTF moment when a teutonic brick castle turns into the 'Alhambra' the moment it gets taken by the moors










  5. #5
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    The strat model switching doesn't seem to happen when foreign factions take control of settlements (by capture, by give_everything, etc.). The settlement strat model is determined by the faction_creator for the region as specified in descr_strat and that remains unchanged until some faction upgrades the settlement at which point the strat model will switch to that faction's variant and it will again remain unchanged for the rest of the campaign even if other factions capture the upgraded settlement. This is the principle that makes settlements like Moria and Minas Tirith in TATW possible.

    Forts do not use the faction_creator at all. Their strat model is based entirely on who currently owns the settlement and their battle model is specified in the forts & watchtowers section in descr_strat. It's possible to have multiple forts in the same region with different strat models and battle maps. It's unfortunate that the fort strat model changes when the fort changes ownership because that precludes the possibility of having more unique "minor settlements" on the map. This can sort of be done with forts but you're essentially limited to those 7 culture slots.

  6. #6
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    I am aware of the settlement strat model mechanic (model follows upgrading faction\initial follows faction_creator in descr_strat), I simply assumed that it would follow the same change mechanic that forts follow when the faction_variant method is used. Good to hear it doesn't.

    Guess I'll do some experimenting of my own with fort strat models.










  7. #7
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    One possibility is to use a null fort model (containing only the 'symbol' object for placing the banner) and a resource model. The null fort model could occupy one of the 7 culture slots so only the default would be needed for all factions (no strat model switching on capture). The resource model won't be highlighted when mousing over the fort, but the fort itself would still be selectable and usable normally. The obvious drawback to this method is that there is a limited number of resources available.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    An invisible fort, still selectable and using the named forts trick. No cover model has been added to the tile yet.


    The same trick can be done with settlement strat models instead of resources. However, it's important to remember that strat models will only render when the tile the object is placed on is visible on screen. So although you could, in principle, have an infinite number of unchanging, custom fort strat models extending off of a single settlement model, they would only render if the settlement's tile is on screen. In practice this makes it unfeasible to use extended settlement strat models for forts that are more than a couple tiles away from the settlement. It also comes with the bug (or maybe feature?) that all the satellite forts are highlighted when mousing over the settlement.

    It goes without saying that all of the above can also be done without needing a null fort model just so long as the cover models (from a resource or settlement) are large enough to cover the chosen generic fort model.

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    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    It's a pity that wonders no longer work the way they did in RTW, that could have been an (limited) approach. I am actually not sure if it was possible in RTW to create your own custom wonders or if they were hard coded like the trading resources.










  9. #9
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    Leo's works seems to really cover this. Now, Youneuoy current work with trade resources and what is planned on the future seems relevant to this too. Perhaps he manages to find a way for forts not changing the strat model and then you could tie them to a specific battle map?
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  10. #10
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar É nóis que vôa bruxão!
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    Default Re: Fort Variations

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Leo's works seems to really cover this. Now, Youneuoy current work with trade resources and what is planned on the future seems relevant to this too. Perhaps he manages to find a way for forts not changing the strat model and then you could tie them to a specific battle map?
    Yes. Youneuoy can and will do this.

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