The best unit(s)

[santakku]

Thread title.

What, in your opinion, are the very best units currently available in EB2? Stat wise, utility wise etc. Feel free to choose one for each 'class'.

[RodriguesSting]

Carthage's Lybia-Phoencian Spearmen. Absolutely garbage at auto-resolve, but ludicrously cost-effective in the battlefield. Will hold a line damn well and get some killing done, and their pools and replenishment are absolutely monstruous.

So other than the fact they are terrible at auto-resolve and on the lower end of quality, their sheer availability and tactical adequacy makes them the best in my opinion.

[Satapatiš]

Hoplitai haploi.


Rarely you have to worry about how many of them dies.

[Hellenikon]

The Agrianes slingers are probably the best missile infantry in the game. They are both excellent missile troops (using greek slings), as well as good melee troops with ap axes, shields, and decent armour. I always grab them as mercenaries and make an objective to own their homeland as allied government to have a supply of them.

[Lusitanio]

Exalted African Veterans

But in the game, I would say either Hoplitai Haploi, Extraordinarii, Liby-Phoenician Spearmen, the Returning Celtiberian Mercenaries (which look as awesome as they sound).

[Sar1n]

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...Regional-Units

This thread might help.

[Satapatiš]

Oh yes, the poor sphendonetai are one of the best units in the game.

[BailianSteel]

[Insert Rompaianai plug here.] But seriously, there will be instances where you have no choice but to cut down elite units standing their ground. Few units outside of Rompaianai are better at this task, Basternai Draugai are weaker but more widely available. They do have a serious weakness to ranged weapons thanks to a lack of armor.

Hypaspistai aren't cheap, but they're worth their weight in mnai. This is especially true for the three factions starting in Hellas proper, where you need to claim several regions in quick succession to survive. Peltastai Makedones can also fare well in melee, but they are far too vulnerable to missile fire.

For Keltoi armies I've found the Arkoi to be valuable anchor to my armies, and cost effective relative to the Retainers and Eporeda Donnoi. Often I'll neglect to recruit any Retainers and have Arkoi as the only foot elites in my Keltoi armies.

Eporeda Donnoi are very expensive, but are hands down one of the best units in the game. They have everything you can ask for in a melee cavalry unit, speed, charging power, durability, and powerful melee.

Dranik Gund are shockingly capable in melee, they can absolutely destroy standard heavy infantry, and go toe to toe with the Agema. Probably the only foot archers in the entire game that can do so, and aren't all that expensive to boot. Their only limitation is the small zone of recruitment.

If we want to talk about cost-effective infantry, then I cast my vote to the Doryphoroi kata Galaton and Payadag i Kardakan. They may rarely impress, but they have a large number of healthy pools once the Thureos reforms kick in. With the proper infrastructure set up, you can raise full stacks from Anatolia or the Upper Satrapies in a single turn, with units to spare.

[Rad]

Libyan hoplites may not be my favorite unit, but it's the unit I value the most. They're plentiful, affordable and reasonably effective as line infantry. I only wish they receive an armor upgrade - not because they need the armor, but because a change of appearance would be nice after some 300-400 turns and I love seeing Montefortino helmets on hoplite units

[Satapatiš]

[Insert Rompaianai plug here.] But seriously, there will be instances where you have no choice but to cut down elite units standing their ground. Few units outside of Rompaianai are better at this task, Basternai Draugai are weaker but more widely available. They do have a serious weakness to ranged weapons thanks to a lack of armor.

Well, in this case...


*Throws an Iranian Axemen unit into the meat grinder* "You can do it, men! For Shah! For Ahura Mazda!"
*Throws another one* "Stay true, stay righteous! Ameshtas Spentas smile upon you!"
*Mashes the rally troops button furiously* "Get back to fight, you cowards!"

It just works...


Hyrkanian Hillmen and Baktrian Tribesmen work for this too.


On a more serious note, Leginu might be possibly the most tactically flexible skirmishing unit in the game and are available in good numbers, but they come with and added time/cost of shipping them everywhere from Italy.

[Sar1n]

On a more serious note, Leginu might be possibly the most tactically flexible skirmishing unit in the game and are available in good numbers, but they come with and added time/cost of shipping them everywhere from Italy.

I prefer Peltenai, they're better at everything but come in loose formation so you have to give them attack order every time they engage in melee, or Promachoi, who have better attack and are much cheaper but missing a bit defense.

[Satapatiš]

I prefer Peltenai, they're better at everything but come in loose formation so you have to give them attack order every time they engage in melee, or Promachoi, who have better attack and are much cheaper but missing a bit defense.

Well, the exact reason why I prefer Leginu for wars waged west off of Ambrakia are their higher defenses and ability to moonlight as the line infantry if need be. But it's far too much expense and hassle to use them on the Eastern fronts so it's Peltenai or Promachoi there.

[BailianSteel]

It just works...

Just need a bit of cataphracts and/or heavy cavalry and we're good to go.

Speaking of which, cataphracts. As long as you can remember they can't win a war on their own, then they can come pretty close. Any faction with decent access to cataphracts will likely see the way they battle transform, as the unstoppable momentum of these ironclads are sometimes all that is needed to break an enemy formation.

[Shoebopp]

Thracian Colonists and North-Western Causcasian Infantry. Both are the heaviest non-elite AP units in the game. However, the Thracian Colonists are FAR more widespread, being available in key satrapies across Alexander's former empire. They could be reasonably deployed in theaters as far west as Greece and as far east as Parthia. Both units have a near-elite armor value of 8, making them excellent choices for bearing the brunt of the most brutal of infantry assaults.

Gallic and Boii Noble Cavalry fulfill a similar role: near-elite units with incredible availability. These two units can be recruited from Gaul to Moisia. Their stats may seem middling at first - 6/14 with 15 charge is mediocre for units of their cost - but the 6 spear attack hides a powerful 10 sword attack, and they gain not one, but TWO armor upgrades. Their final CQC stats post-Celtic Twilight are 10/16, meaning they can fight toe-to-toe with Hetairoi. Not bad.

Sarmatian Noble Cavalry have absolutely broken stats and availability. With stats of 10/15 they can almost defeat Hetairoi, but with an even nastier charge of 28, they hit harder than Hetairoi. Did I mention their bow sidearms, meaning they can also grind heavier foes into submission? Also, once the Sarmatians have settled down they can establish Urban Lands of the Sauromatae, which ALWAYS provide 2 units of Sarmatian Noble Cavalry. You can train entire stacks of these mounted Robocops and not worry about tactical nor strategic concerns. This goes the same for any powerful elite unit that can be trained almost anywhere with a certain factional government - Germanic Heavy Infantry, Nabataean Noble Lancers, Iranian Heavy Cavalry, Numidian Noble Cavalry. I recommend a patch to limit their availabilities.

Hoplitai are the best units in the game if you take availability to the extreme. Recruitable anywhere with sufficient levels of Hellenistic poleis, they have high armor and a bulky shield, making them great anti-cavalry troops or defensive bulwarks. By extension we should also include the Hellenistic mercenaries - Thureophoroi, Machairaphoroi, Thorakitai, Euzenoi, Thureopherontes Hippeis, and Aspidotai Hippeis. They too are recruitable from regions with sufficient Hellenistic colonization, meaning that they are limited only by how many colony points you've got. For the two Hellas Diadochi factions swimming in Metropoleis, this limit is meaningless. Though bland, these mainstay Hellenistic troops can be deployed and maintained almost anywhere

[Jervaj]

Hoplitai are for me one of the best units. Its not the best by raw power, but its solid heavy line infantry, very available without great colonial investments and with free upkeep to boot. Their only shortcoming is having to be used with care to avoid tiring them too easily.

They do suffer a bit later on due to not getting an armour upgrade to keep up with the reformed units (unlike liby-phoenicians, though liby-phoenicians are notably scarcer) + them getting scarcer. Combined kind of makes it hard to keep them as a mainstay. I always hoped that KH could get some reform for them, because in their case it would make sense to keep that style for longer, as its the one their elites use and they never really get phalangites.

[Krampus]

Thureopherontes Hippotoxotai: Strong horse archers and insanely strong melee cav all rolled into one, all for 1,750 mnai. Extremely cost efficient and slot efficient, with a very wide AOR and faction availability. They are, hands down, the best non-shock cavalry in the mod. No contest. The only downside is they are slower than true steppe light cav.

Thureopherontes Toxotai: same. They are cost effective melee infantry even without their bows...but they have bows, and very good bows at that.

Pantodapoi phalangitai: they can hold a battle line just as well as regular phalangites, but for a fraction of the price. Which is great, because phalangites are only useful in pitched field battles against other infantry. Those 2k+ mnai phalangites are going to do nothing but eat up their seasonal upkeep costs while you're storming a city, clearing out rebel spawns, and fighting stacks of horse and foot archers in the steppes. UNLESS you just autoresolve those battles. In which case you should still probably be fielding entire stacks of panda phalanxes and closing your eyes while the autogeneral somehow leads them to a victory that you could never hope to achieve in a manual battle.

Sphendonetai: it's criminal how cheap these units are for how much damage they can cause and how much ammo they have. Purely for ranged damage, they are the strongest unit in the game, tied with the Asanai who are slightly more expensive and don't have a shield. The only downside is their firing arc, which can make them a bit harder to use in sieges. But for the price of a levy spearman you can get 3 of these bad boys to seriously soften up low armored low shielded units. And they have an extremely wide AOR. Their refresh rate is painfully slow, but you shouldn't be fielding more than 4 in any stack (and even 4 is still pretty cheesy, then again I mod projectiles to have a slightly higher hit rate than the base mod). I literally field them as my primary missile unit for every faction

Misthrophoroi Hoplitai: in exchange for paying a higher upfront cost than regular hoplites and trading 2 armor for 2 defense, you get a unit with lower upkeep and HARDY. As a result, they're much more flexible and cost effective for campaigning than regular hoplitai, who are best for garrison duty due to their eligibility for free upkeep.

Illyrioi Peltastai: best *cheap* non-bow/sling light infantry in the game. Have you seen their stats? 8 attack sword, 4 shield 4 armor 6 defense, powerful long range javelins, and capable of forming relatively tight formations, for 675 mnai!? Yes you can get better, but you're going to pay at least 200 mnai more, and they probably won't be able to condense into a tight cube to be useful in sieges. Somewhat limited AOR, but recruitable in high numbers if you control those provinces.

Edit: also cataphracts. They are extremely expensive, but definitely the most cost-effective 2500+ mnai cavalry in the game. Having more than 1 of these in any army is truly overkill, and you would be better served just having a cheaper medium or light lancer cav to supplement. But holy Sarmatians do these hit like a truck. The only time I really ever get nervous playing against the AI is if they have about as much cav as me and a cataphract. When properly supported with other light cav, a single well placed cata charge will rout an entire infantry line. I have had enemy catas charge straight through a unit of light spearman FROM THE FRONT, much to my horror. They are such big hammers that, depending on the strength of the opposing unit, they don't even need an anvil! And if a unit can survive a charge from a cataphract (you still shouldn't be front charging hoplites, feint a bit until you can break up their formation), they are durable enough that you can then use THE CATAS AS THE ANVIL for your other unit of light/medium lancer cav that I told you to bring.

Honorable mention - East and West Celt Light Cav: they're outclassed by steppe light cavalry for the price, but they benefit from armor reforms and have free upkeep in settled regions of the campaign map. As celtic factions, you can basically just keep these as your free garrison for every settlement in your homeland and they will do a fine job of clearing out bandits with 1-2 units of medium infantry, or supplement any local defense force against larger armies. Hoplites are good garrison units, but not nearly as flexible as having 2-4 free units of light cav on hand to fight any pitched battle near your settlements.

Honorable mention - Galatian Raiders: they are super cheap light to medium offensive infantry that will absolutely slaughter anything less than a machairaphoroi in melee, AND they get an early armor upgrade like the Thracian and Galatian colonists. Also? Best unit model. Nude dudes with nothing but a fancy blue cape and luxurious ginger mustache. Hell, I would flee the battle too.

EDIT EDIT: you know, it's funny. I picked up Total War: Three Kingdoms recently and have been enjoying it with the Beneath a Red Sky mod, but I still really prefer the field battles in EBII. As well as the unit diversity. Yes, even if there's like 12 different versions of a light steppe horse archer, or regional reskins

[Sar1n]

I should add Oxybeles. On level ground, it can be a bit tricky to get the distancing and targeting right to prevent friendly fire while maintaining good effectiveness, but once you get an eye for it, you can bombard the enemy from behind your phalanx line with frightening impact. Most effective pure ranged unit in game and elephant sniper, only lithobolos and onagers come close and then only when used at short range.

[Shoebopp]

Screeching women.

[sigurdr]

I agree with everyone saying cataphracts. If you measure it by the one unit which will have the biggest effect when added to an army then it is these. On a parthian campaign these changed the campaign difficulty rating significantly. Can't think of another unit that does this so well.

If you take into account availability and logistics, early game hopilites are king. I am always sad when there numbers start to dwindle. I try to buy the mercanaries when I can.

Also the kh general. So much staying power. Wonderful for siege defence and holding the line of battle. Early game kh is is very tempting to make up half your armies with these units. Fielding 6 in a stack gives you a very heavy elite corps.

[blackbirdgriffin]

I really love the cataphracts and they are really fun and impactfull and I agree with sigurd that they mesh extremely well with both parthian and sakan armies (mixed with HA and light/medium cav they really make unstopable armies) but I also would say that heavy cavalry (here I would say that cataphracts are super-heavy) like the asvar Kuveshvandan, hetaroi, sarmatian heavy cavalry etc... are more "usefull" as they are faster and therefore are more flexible and are more usable throughout your battles (exhausted cataphracts are really inefficient IMHO due to it's slow movement speed) especially the iranian one (Pontos current difficulty rating is IMHO wrong just because you have generals with such units as well as early access to them, they are that good and in the region where pontos is saying that a heavy cav is very strong is really saying something)