Hagia Sophia: Turkey turns iconic Istanbul museum into mosque

[PointOfViewGun]

I know this will be covered here so let's do it properly...



Hagia Sophia: Turkey turns iconic Istanbul museum into mosque

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has signed a decree converting Hagia Sophia in Istanbul - founded as a cathedral - into a mosque.

Haghia Sophia was turned into a museum in 1934 by decree of Turkish cabinet of ministers. Since then, the foundation that Mehmed the Conqueror left the mosque's property have been suing the government to take back the building. Finally today the Turkish council of state declared that the decree of the Turksih cabinet of ministers from 1934 was unlawful. Following the announcement of the decision Turkish president Erdoğan signed a decree to turn the museum into a full mosque again.

This is largely seen as a move by Erdoğan to consolidate his base and to shift public attention from economic failings to the building. I partially welcome it since it shows us clearly how weak his hold has become, that he needs to rely on such petty moves. Nonetheless, its a shameful move that will be hard to fix. I can only hope that the building doesn't get damaged in any way.

In reality, call to prayer and regular prayer services have been held on one part of the building since 1991. That's why I said that the building is being turned into a full mosque. From a religious perspective its also a very sinful act to pursue its turn back to a full mosque religiously. It's essentially materialism. There are only two buildings that can be regarded as holy in Islam. Neither is Haghia Sophia.

So, what can we expect next (from Turkey and from international community)?

[Sir Adrian]

EU is already talking about sanctions and reparations to Greece and Cyprus. This move also pissed off the entire Orthodox world, so semi friendly countries like Romania may react negatively. Russia will definitely take offense.

[Prodromos]

Well, I guess in the grand scheme of things it's just a building, and one with no biblical significance. I have to say I'm a little concerned when people react with more vehemence to destruction of Christian objects than to persecution of Christian people. Instead of fighting to keep the Hagia Sophia as a museum I'd prefer to grant refugee status to persecuted Christians, such as the ones being massacred by the tens of thousands in Nigeria.

"See how fearful a sin it is to abuse the saints. It is an injury done to Christ, for believers are mystically one with him: 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?' (Acts 9:4). When the body was wounded, the Head, being in heaven, cried out." - Thomas Watson

[Derc]

Atatürk would turn around in his grave.

[PointOfViewGun]

EU is already talking about sanctions and reparations to Greece and Cyprus. This move also pissed off the entire Orthodox world, so semi friendly countries like Romania may react negatively. Russia will definitely take offense.

It would be stupid to sanction Turkey over this. There is likely no legal basis as well. Reparations to Greece and Cyprus is equally ridiculous. If the EU wants to match AKP's pettiness they should definitely go that way.

[Sir Adrian]

Well, I guess in the grand scheme of things it's just a building, and one with no biblical significance. I have to say I'm a little concerned when people react with more vehemence to destruction of Christian objects than to persecution of Christian people. Instead of fighting to keep the Hagia Sophia as a museum I'd prefer to grant refugee status to persecuted Christians, such as the ones being massacred by the tens of thousands in Nigeria.

Most people have no idea that is even happening.

[antaeus]

Political stunts are awesome.

Edit: when I stayed in Istanbul I visited a number of beautiful mosques. I also visited Hagia Sophia. It was also amazing. But for the life of me, I can't see any difference between visiting the Sultan Ahmed Mosque and Hagia Sophia now. Just like I've visited mosques, churches, temples in other countries.

If our Turkish populist friend wants to make a show and dance bait and switch, who cares. The building will be maintained and repaired. You'll still be able to visit it.

Remember kids... don't feed the populist.

[Muizer]

It would be stupid to sanction Turkey over this. There is likely no legal basis as well. Reparations to Greece and Cyprus is equally ridiculous. If the EU wants to match AKP's pettiness they should definitely go that way.

Agreed. Especially with the cited religious motivation, that would demonstrate the basic mentality is exactly the same as the one that motivates Erdogan, with the only difference being the building is on Turkish soil. I say, "the only difference" because the way I see it's a world heritage site and as such it should allow good access to anyone, regardless faith or nationality, who wants to see it and learn about its history.

[Abdülmecid I]

I think the comment about reparations was a jobe; obviously, there's no such issue, as neither Cyprus nor Greece ever had any legal right to the Hagia Sophia or even the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul. Anyway, as Setekh pointed out, this move is designed purely for domestic consumption. It serves as a convenient distraction from more pressing problems and also reinforces the government's image as a bastion of Turkish patriotism and Islamic religion. The same conclusion applies for any international reactions, their goal is also to strengthen their internal reputation, by presenting themselves as the defenders of cultural heritage and implicitly of the Orthodox creed, because, let's be frank, the Balkan nationalists don't care about the museum. This means that we will not experience anything more severe than meaningless, verbal condemnations.

If Russia complains more vehemently, despite the recent 2018 schism over the recognition of the Ukrainian Church's autocephaly, the reason behind this will be the conflict of interests between Ankara and Moscow in Libya and Syria, not any hypocritical concern about Bartholomew I and his flock. Finally, I doubt that the monument is seriously threatened by any material damage, because such vandalism not only would be unnecessary for AKP's populsim, but it could also undermine the revenues Istanbul receive from the tourist industry. Overall, it's definitely bad news, but, in my opinion, it's not probable that the situation will deteriorate further. I wonder how realistic is to hope that the decision will be reversed, once the current administration is replaced by CHP or a generally more secular coalition.

[dogukan]

As most of you have mentioned, it is a typical populist act to rally islamo-nationalism.

Hagia Sophia had long been an issue of Islamists in Turkey. After things such as building a mosque to Taksim square and many other symbolic things, this was the last major act.
Islamists had been creating this idea that there is a "western-puppet masonic Kemalist elite" that keeps Turkey backwards, anti-Islam, slave to West and that Erdoğan is now reversing everything and Turkey is rapidly going back to its powerful Ottoman status.

Islamo-nationalists feed more on this symbolism than economics, so such symbolic issues are often brought to the agenda during times of political change to rally that push needed. This time, they did it out of nowhere. For a long time, there had been a rapid dissolution among AKP's ranks as some more liberal conservative figures launched new parties. meanwhile Turkey is economically in a pretty bad corner. In both Libya and Syria, despite the idea that here is a glorious victory, Turkey is stuck between powers. And with covid added, people had found too much time to listen to these new liberal*conservatives.

I think this move has more to do with attempting to stop the losses to A.Davutoğlu and Ali Babacan's parties. The Hagia Sophia is a common theme of all Islamists, liberal or not, and therefore was an act that would put them to a difficult position.
It seems that AKP expected the secular opposition to put up a fight against this mosque issue to use their polarizing tactics, to reinforce their ideas of a anti-Muslim Western puppet traitors are still a threat to them. The opposition came out and said "go ahead what has been stopping you?"...

And now I watch on the TVs and social media as the pro-government shills are going through shadow boxing, creating enemies that "prevented Turkey from achieving its glory"...

Honestly, I would have expected Erdoğan to use this before the 2023 elections. He shot early, but I guess it is because things were going pretty bad. Some say it is due to expected currency crisis as the reserves of the central bank is so low that the banking system might not be able to keep finances stable...so they'd need an external enemy that is trying to destroy us because we are gaining our "independence".

Good old nationalism. This is not even Islamism in my opinion.

[Sir Adrian]

It would be stupid to sanction Turkey over this. There is likely no legal basis as well. Reparations to Greece and Cyprus is equally ridiculous. If the EU wants to match AKP's pettiness they should definitely go that way.

The reparations are for Erdogan's blue water imperialism, not for this, but this might help convince people on the fence.

[Nebaki]

Atatürk would turn around in his grave.

After the fall of Constantinople it was used already for centuries as a Mosque - My Country, My Land, My Mosque/Church don´t understand what third parties having to talk there.

Hagia Sophia had long been an issue of Islamists in Turkey.

Well it was more an Issue for Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Serbians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Greek Cypriots and some wannabe Crusaders then some Islamists or even People of Turkey.

Good old nationalism.

How this is good old nationalism?

[PointOfViewGun]

Stop talking BS please - after the fall of Constantinople it was used already for centuries as a Mosque - My Country, My Land, My Mosque/Church don´t understand what third parties having to talk there.

The mosque was turned into a museum with Atatürk's signature. He also oversaw renovations done on the building. So, yeah, he wouldn't be too happy in his grave.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I favor a Crusade to liberate Constantinople from the Turks, personally.

[tgoodenow]

To the victor goes the spoils. Since this is acceptable, time for the Temple to replace the Al Aqsa mosque.

[TheLeft]

Oh Noes!!!11!

Two different branches of the same magical tree of nonsense continue to argue as to which secret incantations will finally unlock the hidden boss fight of human existence...

[Cyclops]

I favor a Crusade to liberate Constantinople from the Turks, personally.

That always ends well #PhillipTheGoodDidNothingWrong #EnguerrandDeCoucysLifeMatters

[swabian]

Is it still open for tourists.

EDIT:

A spokesperson for Erdogan says visitors will still be welcome to visit Hagia Sophia, which is the country’s most popular tourist attraction. “Opening up Hagia Sophia to worship won't keep local or foreign tourists from visiting the site,” Ibrahim Kalin told the Turkish news agency Anadolu in an interview earlier this week.

Nonetheless, it remains unclear to cultural heritage professionals whether the monument will be used only for occasional events or regular observances, and how, if at all, the World Heritage site may be altered or modified.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/h...ng-way-mosque/

I have little problems with that. It's Turkey's business after all and if it's still open for tourism, i have no problem at all.

[PointOfViewGun]

Yeah, being open to visitors was never a problem. The Blue mosque is open to visitors as well. However, there will be no fee this time which is a big loss of revenue. The big question is how much of the interior will they change.

[antaeus]

Yeah, being open to visitors was never a problem. The Blue mosque is open to visitors as well. However, there will be no fee this time which is a big loss of revenue. The big question is how much of the interior will they change.

Most of the basic elements are there, and have been maintained and renovated over time (e.g. the mihrab, minbar etc). It is a museum to it's Islamic past as well as it's Christian past. So potentially it could open tomorrow for small services - part of me thinks that other than the initial show-off celebration that's all it will ever host because I think everybody seems to understand this is political.

It would take a lot of work to bring the supporting facilities up to the standard of any other mosque in the neighbourhood to handle large crowds. I last visited in winter and it was freezing cold and draughty - not exactly pleasant - compared the Sultan Ahmed Mosque which was carpeted, warm and cosy.

I'm sure our Turkish forum folk could enlighten us further.