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Thread: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

  1. #1
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)






    Welcome to the Rise of Rome 666 (bc) first public presentation

    Inside this thread we will unveil the basics of our plans
    They are more or less just "theoretical", for now at least...


    Keep in mind, though, that everything "stated" should be feasible and representing our main final goals
    We really hope of being able to produce a good release, one day
    Don't expect anything (besides first test packs) before 2021, most probably




    WHAT IS RoR 666?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    RoR 666 will be a DeI overhaul submod taking place in the italian peninsula and starting at 666 b.c.
    You will need the Rise of the Republic Campaign DLC to play it, since it will use its map.

    The 666 bc starting date has been chosen for 4 reasons:

    - The number itself...
    - The beginning of the passage from the Villanovian era to the "Roman" era, with the slow decline of Etruscans, the slow rise of the Carthaginians and the trials for survival of other Italic tribes
    - The ongoing Greek colonization (it is true that it started during the IX century bc but it actually had its real consolidation and strenghtening during the VII century)
    - The come to mature age of TVLLVS HOSTILIVS (?686/640 ca) who has been the third mithological/legendary king of Rome, also called the "War King" since it was during its kingdom that the Romans really begun to acquire new territories

    WHAT KIND OF CAMPAIGN SHOULD I EXPECT?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Regarding Historical Features, we'll surely have to build some compromises, both realistic and fictional.
    By fictional I mean that some features/events/whatever may have had the historical potentiality of occuring, or that they might have just really happened but at a small scale, without leaving traces behind.

    Keep in mind that we are talking about italic ancient history, not everything is 100% sure.
    Historians and archaeologists have searched under every rock (even if there will be always time and place for new discoveries) and most of the things we know are inside the "most probable presumption" category.
    What we know, though, is that it could be a perfect time and place for a good videogame and modding hobby.

    Regarding Gameplay Features...
    Well, the ones who "know" me and have played Testudo (https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-upd-feb-27-20)
    may already have an idea.

    Anyway, they can be summarized into 4 principles:

    - slower paced
    - strategically implemented and emphasizing micromanagement
    - more regional and less global
    - hard... but just


    It won't be much similar to DeI vanilla's gameplay style, it will be... somehow different and we hope... intriguing.

    There won't be a main goal, it will be up to the player to build its own (no missions, no Faction goals).
    You could say that you've reached the end of the campaign as soon as you hit the last event and have formed the highest "League Level".
    What's the League level?
    Well, it' s a sort of new "Imperium Level" that will act differently, more focused on forming alliances and liberate/subjugate lands rather than just conquering them.

    RoR 666 will have 3 gameplay versions (for better meeting different gameplay tastes):

    - SMALL (2tpy with "historical dates"): the last event will occur at 333° turn
    - MEDIUM
    (4tpy with "historical dates"): the last event will occur at 666° turn
    - LARGE
    (12tpy with non historical dates): the last event will occur at 999° turn


    Check posts #2/3/4 for further explanations.





    bronze roman coin (3rd century bc)





    DOWNLOAD MAPS AND MATERIALS
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    We are uploading most of the planning material we have produced (for people interested, the ones who want to check things deeper):

    - all the planning maps with good resolution
    - a GIMP file with the maps imported, so you can turn on/off things as you wish
    - AUTOCAD file, with which I drew the map
    - SMARTMAP EXCEL files (with no data) which will be extremely useful (once completed) for building the startpos

    @@@_001_RoR_DOWNLOAD LINK: http://www.mediafire.com/file/yq0gdg...Plans.zip/file


    ----------------------------------------------
    #1 post will be used for main features' descriptions and download links one day, hopefully...
    (to moderators: please, do not merge posts, we'll need them as they are, thx)


    CONTINUE >
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; June 22, 2020 at 08:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)


    < CONTINUE





    RoR 666 PLANNED FEATURES



    THE CAMPAIGN MAP
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The CA RotR map is really interesting, it's a big map of the italian peninsula (+ Tunis' cape) formed by 31 provinces and 115 regions.
    I'ts big enough for not being just a south <> north conquest, it is pretty much realistic and varied so it will serve perfectly our purposes.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    To represent the historical defragmentation of the period we have chosen to set many different Cultures.
    Different Cultures will also mean different Rosters, do not expect the variations you can find in DeI vanilla though, both for historical and modding reasons.

    There is a total of 19 (+1) Cultures

    01) Celtic
    02) Raetic
    03) Celto Ligurian
    04) Ligurain
    05) Venetic
    06) North Etruscan
    07) Etruscan
    08) Latin
    09) Osco Umbrian
    10) Osco Bruttian
    11) Illyric
    12) Doric
    13) Ionic
    14) Achean (no Achean Faction will own regions at first turn)
    15) Sikanian
    16) Elmyan
    17) Phoenician
    18) Nuragic
    19) Corsic

    20) Tribal (will be always present inside any province and will influence the campaign through random/custom spawns too)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    There will be interesting differences regarding the Playable Factions.

    You'll be able to play with at least 1 Faction for every Culture, except the Phoenicians and the Tribal ones.
    Carthago won't actually be an active Faction, they will be a sort of a "disabled AI Faction" for technical reasons I will explain later.
    Carthago will act, though, through his allies in Sardinia and Sicily and you will be able to play as one of his allies, the Motya Elmyan Faction. The Elmyans were a sort of fusion between Phoenicians and autochthon Sikanians.

    There will be 4 types of Playable Factions (note that every faction -except carthago- will start with 1 Region only):

    - The "Natives", who will start with a single owned region
    - The Greek Colonizers (one per each Greek Culture), who will start from the sea and will have to colonize their specific Region (by attacking the settlement from the sea) - big blue squares
    - The Raetic "Invaders", who will start as an "horde" and will have to seize one (by chosing it) of their specific Regions (by attacking the settlement from land) - big green square
    - The "Insurrectionists", who will start as an "horde" and will have to gain control of their specific Region (by attacking the settlement from land) - small squares

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    THE CAMPAIGN STAGES
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Being RoR 666 a sort of fictional compromise between an historical narrative and an hopefully enjoyable videogame, we have decided to affect the campaign through various events and Faction spawns.
    For doing it we have divided the campaign pace into 4 Stages (which will also give access to different Roster Tiers).

    4TPY Pace (for 2TPY just halve it, for 12TPY add a 33%):
    (Keep in mind that both player and AI will play freely, conquering, winning and losing, there won't be any block except the ones given by the League Level)

    1st STAGE (1ST TIER): 666/650 bc = 1/64 turns
    2nd STAGE (2nd TIER): 650/616 bc = 64/200 turns
    3rd STAGE (3rd TIER): 616/509 bc = 200/628 turns
    4th STAGE (4th TIER): 509 bc = from 628° turn


    RoR 666 will also follow the deeds of the mithological/legendary Roman Kings (Romulus and Numa Pompilius "were" already dead in 666 bc)

    - TVLLVS HOSTILIVS : 686/640 (ca) will live 46 years
    will reign from 666 (20 years old) to 640 (46 years old)
    will reign for 26 years (104 turns) - ALREADY IN STARTPOS

    - ANCVS MARCIVS : 675/616 = will live 59 years
    will reign from 640 (35 years old) to 616 (59 years old)
    will reign for 24 years (96 turns) - SPAWN AT 15 years old = 660 bc = turn 24

    - LVCIVS TARQVINIVS PRISCVS : 641/579 = will live 62 years
    will reign from 616 (25 years old) to 579 (62 years old)
    will reign for 37 years (148 turns) - SPAWN AT 15 years old = 626 bc = turn 160

    - SERVIVS TVLLIVS : 599/539 = lived 60 years
    will reign from 579 (20 years old) to 539 (60 years old)
    will reign for 40 years (160 turns) - SPAWN AT 15 years old = 584 bc = turn 328

    - LVCIVS TARQVINIVS SVPERBVS : 562/495 = lived 67 years
    will reign from 539 (23 years old) to 509 (53 years old)
    will reign for 30 years (120 turns) - SPAWN AT 15 years old = 546 bc = turn 328
    after the foundation of the Republic in 509 bc LVCIVS will enact a spawn (with owned regions) for a sort of roman civil war starting at 507 bc (turn 636)

    --------------------------

    Here below you can find a description of the planned
    HISTORICAL SPAWNS


    They all are historical happened events.
    (Check the maps you'll find in the Download section for further explanations)

    The 1st STAGE (1ST TIER - 666/650 bc = 1/64 turns) will see the arrival (via spawn) of many Greek Factions colonizing the southern Italy and altering the starting nature of the southern map.
    It will also represent the war between the Romans and Alba Longa (which is usually credited as one of the first roman war for conquering land).

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    The 2nd STAGE (2nd TIER - 650/616 bc = 64/200 turns) will be the start of the player's serious conquests (and the growth of his "League Level").
    It will see another Greek spawn and the war between Roma and the Medulli (a Latin tribe who fiercely opposed Rome).

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    The 3rd STAGE (3rd TIER - 616/509 bc = 200/628 turns) will be the core of the campaign, without any sensation of player steamrolling since the "turtle" style (and all the spawns) will limit it.
    It will see the last Greek spawns, the strenghtening of Carthago allies in Sardinia and Sicily, an Osco Umbrian invasion of southern Latium, an Etruscan expansion, the spawn of a Strong Celtic Faction in Milan.
    Rome will have to fight a coalition of Sabinians.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    The 4th STAGE (4th TIER - 509 bc).
    509 bc is the historical date for the end of the Roman Kings and the Rise of the Roman Republic.
    Banished from Rome, LVCIVS TARQVINIVS SVPERBVS will ally with other Latins and Etruscans for what you could call "the first (of many) Roman Civil Wars".
    It will also see a big invasion done by Celts through the Po river plains.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    A comprehensive map of the HISTORICAL SPAWNS

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    THE CAMPAIGN SPAWNS
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    There won't be just the HISTORICAL SPAWNS...
    Nope...
    There will be 3 other types of spawns:


    - "BORDERLAND SPAWNS"

    They will be some fictional spawns from Celts, Ligurians, Corsics and Illyrics.
    There will be just 1 Faction for each of them so they may become medium/big Factions.

    They will be at war with everyone else by default.
    Spawns are set depending on conditions, weights and dice rolls, they may happen as they may not.
    Spawns can have different levels, from little armies to direct acquisition (well, requisition, actually) of specific Regions.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    - "TRIBAL SPAWNS"

    Tribal is one of the 20 Cultures, representing the less developed clans (who do not want to bow, though) and parts of the map.
    The Tribal Factions can spawn inside any Region (except Carthago).

    They will be at war with everyone else by default, at war with Pirates but allied with any other Tribal Faction.
    Spawns are set depending on conditions, weights and dice rolls, they may happen as they may not.
    Spawns can have different levels, from little armies to direct acquisition (well, requisition, actually) of specific Regions.

    There will be 7 Tribal Factions (Pirates are navy only, at war with the other 6 Tribal Factions and everyone else)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    - "STRENGHTENING/DEFENDING SPAWNS"


    We still have to specifically think about this, but we are planning some spawns for the most important Factions (like the Playable ones when not played).
    They could happen if they are too weak and during the start of the 4 different Stages.

    --------------------------

    So... pretty complex, uh?
    Well, the aim of this mod is to limit the classic expansion/steamroll of the player, make the gameplay more various, unpredictable and regional focused.
    Also, it should avoid having tons of repeating armies sent by the AI towards the player.
    Turtle style.
    All the spawns above are a good method to add longevity since most of the campaign will have really different spawns (only the historical ones will be in common).

    OTHER FEATURES
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    As I've alreavy written, RoR 666 will focus on 4 main principles:

    - slower paced
    - strategically implemented and emphasizing micromanagement
    - more regional and less global
    - hard... but just


    It will be a "Turtle mod", and it will contain many of the Testudo submod features (which are still a WIP, btw: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-upd-feb-27-20)

    More specifically, RoR 666 will also have some new gameplay sytems, like:

    - the "LEAGUE LEVEL"

    The League Level will act similarily to the Imperium Level (which could be even deactivated, dunno yet, have to check some technical things) and will define the growth curves of the player.
    It will be built thorugh virtual points, you have an example regarding the VPS Economical Trust (https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-upd-dec-01-19)

    It will be composed of many things and will make you understand (through penalties and even removing the conquest option) that conquering everything is not the solution, you'll have to form a powerful league for being the ruler.
    Liberating Regions, make Client States, work through custom diplomatic system (like gift/take/ regions) will be a really important strategical feature.
    You'll also be able to confer a sort of autonomy level to your regions.

    The League level will work for AI too, in a different way though.
    It will be a sort of scripted "De AI Arbitris" where the conquering options will vary depending on many conditions.

    All the points above (and a lot more) will affect the dimensional curves the League Level can reach.
    It's complex to explain why and how now... more descriptions will come as soon as I'll start working and defining its math.

    - the "DIPLOMACY"

    Diplomacy will also act differently, I already have some thoughts... but it's really too early for talking about this, now
    What I can tell you for sure is that it will have a custom DIGS (https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15879401)
    And other things more.

    - the "POLITICS"

    Politics will use PIGS as a basis (https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-upd-jun-09-19)
    Civil Wars will be possbile but unlikely, just a fear you can quite easily control.

    There will be 4 types of Parties (characters will have different effects while depolyed):

    - The Rulers Party (pretty good at everything)
    - The Warriors Party (best for battles, worst for administration)
    - The Chiefs Party (best for administration, worst for battles)
    - The Foreigners Party (will have characters with non owned cultural skills, representing the defragmentation of the historical period)

    There will be a custom VPS system too, which will take the 4 parties as scripted actors.

    Still to understand what to do with Governments and Government choices.

    - the "TECHNOLOGIES"

    Sorry, not much we can tell here

    - the "BUILDINGS"

    Really a lot of conceptual changes here too...
    Again, it's a little early for actually talking about it but I would like to give at least an impression about what our plans are.
    Now, you know that it's actually possible to have 10 slots into capitals and 6 into non capital settlements?
    Well, even if it should be 100% sure (thanks to Daruwind and DeTrooper) there is not a 100% certainty that it could be actually used for the game itself (too complex to explain, let's see if some news will come out meanwhile)
    But, I want to start building things with the "more building slots" feature in mind.

    Hence:

    - I will most probably build the startpos for having 10/6 slots
    - until a 100% "more building slots" mod is out we'll have 6/4 slots
    - Provinces will stay as they are, there won't be a 1 province = 1 region feature
    - all the 6/4 slots will be opened from the start, yeah... growth will be deactivated and useless for opening slots (but I may use it for other things, have still to check if and how)
    - buildings will have many more upgrade chains (and will also be blocked by Stages), not only 5 but at least 10

    There will be 3 main types of buildings

    1) the CITY (port or land will differ)
    Will be similar to the main city chain, will let you recruit non specialized units and many other basic things.

    Divided into 2 types:
    - provincial capitals (walled)
    - non provincial capitals (not walled)

    2) the OUTDOORS (countryside):
    Will work alongside the CITY type, you could say that the main city chains has been split into 2, each one with custom features.

    3) the DISTRICTS (will start as a generic "empty" building and open all the 9 types below)
    Specific buildings regarding many things.

    The 9 types I have in mind now are (they aren't so different form DeI's vanilla):

    - CIVIL
    - SANITATION
    - ECONOMICAL
    - MILITARY
    - RELIGIOUS
    - FOOD PRODUCTION
    - RESOURCE PRODUCTION
    (could be that resources won't be linked to regions but to buildings only)
    - FOREIGN
    (for example will halt the Tribal spawns)
    - CULTURAL
    (every culture will have a custom and specific chain)

    So... not having to wait for growth, many more upgrade levels and many choices (4 for major, 2 for minor) should let the Building System much more interesting.
    We will build the system so that it will give a lot of different and micromanagement choices during the campaign turns.
    When and if the 10/6 slots will be possible to insert, then the growth will start working again from the 7/5 slots.

    - the "RPGu FEATURES"

    There will surely be some RPGu custom BG and units (https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-upd-dec-01-19)
    There could be some "Hero" units, they won't be gods but they will know their piece (and also help the army with strategical features)
    There will be a custom trait/skill system

    - the "EVENTS"

    Cdir Events will surely need some fixes and some new entries.
    There will be a new scripted system regarding custom events for characters and for the land itself, with custom climate events (and custom climate system)

    - the "A... LOT OF THINGS"

    Yep if you have read everything and got the plans we are describing then you can surely say it's pretty much ambitious.
    And... yes, it will require a lot of time and work.
    Well... until we are getting fun we'll surely work on every feature.

    (Could be that the features described above will be sensible to changes)


    ----------------------------------------------
    #2 post will be used for specific features' descriptions
    (to moderators: please, do not merge posts, we'll need them as they are, thx)


    CONTINUE >
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; June 22, 2020 at 07:44 AM.

  3. #3
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)


    < CONTINUE






    A FIRST DRAFT(with images) OF THE ROSTERS WILL COME OUT SOON


    ----------------------------------------------
    #3 post will be used for Rosters' descriptions and Battle Features
    (to moderators: please, do not merge posts, we'll need them as they are, thx)


    CONTINUE >
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; June 24, 2020 at 08:56 AM.

  4. #4
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)


    < CONTINUE



    The Rise Of Rome 666 Planning Team:

    mardukammon (Italian college student of ancient history): original ideas, specific ideas, historical researches, rosters
    Jake Armitage (Italian architect): specific ideas, modding plan

    Yapp (Misha in Discord - videomaker): videomaking for custom and specific events


    Credits:

    The DeI Trinity: Dresden, Kam and Ritter
    The DeI Team: all the other devs (and submodders too)
    Lugos: for the photoshop freizes I've used to draw the maps
    All Rome 2 Modders
    TWC: for hosting funny projects since 2004

    ... And ... you too!

    Let us know if you're interested into following the project or even helping us building it.
    And, yes, we are recruiting everyone interested so to start (slowly) assigning specific jobs and form a conspicuous team, if possible.
    You don't know how to mod? Well, you could help us with texts, images, whatever.
    Just let us know you're interested into the project and into giving some help and we'll take care of the rest...

    Thanks!


    Rise of Rome 666 links:

    TWC LINK (this page): https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...0#post15927340
    DISCORD LINK: https://discord.gg/9GVd9Kc



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Any comment and suggestion is really appreciated!






    ----------------------------------------------
    #4 post will be used for various infos, credits, tips ecc ecc...
    (to moderators: please, do not merge posts, we'll need them as they are, thx)



    < END >





    Last edited by Jake Armitage; July 12, 2020 at 05:03 PM.

  5. #5
    Gyrosmeister's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Good Luck and most importantly, have fun with the development of the project

    Feel free to ask me anything related to startpos, I am a bit short on time so I can't actively help (and I want to finish Demetrios Poliorketes some time) though if you need advice hit me.


  6. #6
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Sure thing Gyros,
    I'll feel free to ask you startpos questions
    and you may feel free to ask me script ones
    Give and take style!

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Sounds awesome, I'm definitely interested - especially in playing as the Etruscans. Or as Syracuse....or Nuragic....choices, choices

  8. #8
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Thanks
    What do you mean by... interested?
    Just about playing it in the future or...
    Do you mean you would be interested into helping us, anyway you would decide?

  9. #9
    Centenarius
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Well thought out and planned. I look forward to seeing this project succeed.

  10. #10
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Thanks

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    very nice

  12. #12
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    This looks really promising, Jake. If the final product is as good as this preview then that's gonna be awesome for sure.

    I wounder, though, how you, guys, are going to handle the rosters. I presume that we don't have that much information and variety in that regard as we do, for example, for the 4th and 3rd century BC.

  13. #13
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Can't say much about rosters yet, mardukammon has built a lot of reskins to start building the first template and have the material to think about.
    What I can tell is that is always a matter of math, build the correct roster function, interpolate it with the others, go out of the road with something fictional and use DeI's math as a template.
    By default should be less interesting than DeI's, yeah, this could be a problem but I think we could have many alternative ways to give it some depth, it just a matter of finding the correct one...

    Actually... the real problem of modding and building a well done mod is not planning or making choices, for me at least... but ALL those things you'll have to mechanically insert into tabs, all the startpos, all the db, all the scripts... that's the real pain.

  14. #14
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Very good I am very interested in this I look forward to seeing what you accomplish and wish you all the success

  15. #15
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    thx

  16. #16
    Dead*Man*Wilson's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Very cool. Looks like I'll have an excuse to get RotR in the future

  17. #17
    Centenarius
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    I have so much faith in Jake, I already bought it

  18. #18
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    slow but steady

  19. #19
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    I keep my fingers crossed for your project, Jake!
    It'd indeed interesting to play in the early days of Rome - I've always found this faction very boring as you'd start already strongest (the exception was actually Testudo that made this position more difficult).
    I may then buy the DLC at this summer sale - until now it didn't make sense.
    Take care!
    JoC
    If you want to play a historical mod in the medieval setting the best IMO are:
    Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project and Broken Crescent.
    Read my opinions on other mods here.
    ........................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods (all made in 2018): SSHIP, Wrath of the Norsemen, Broken Crescent.
    Home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Hints for Medieval 2 moders: forts, merchants, AT-NGB bug.
    Thrones of Britannia: review, opinion on the battles, ideas for modding. No good mod yet, alas!
    Dominant strategy in Rome2, Attila, ToB and Troy: “Sniping groups of armies”. Still there, alas!
    .................................................................................................................................................................................
    Mod leader of the SSHIP: traits, ancillaries, script, buildings. Download SSHIP v.097 here.

  20. #20
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod Plan] Rise of Rome 666 (WIP)

    Thx JoC

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