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Thread: The Decline Of The United States of America

  1. #101
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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    I'm with you, comrade Exarch. Keep pissing them off.
    Funny thing is, i'm actually being sincere and truthful and it's remarkable the level of north korean brainwashing there is amongst these americans.

    Still, i've got 2 bitcoins that say america won't exist as a unified contiguous state before the end of this century. America is already so divided culturally, they're one soviet union style collapse away from balkanisation:

    How America Fractured Into Four Parts

    People in the United States no longer agree on the nation’s purpose, values, history, or meaning. Is reconciliation possible?
    Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ericas/619012/

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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Chinas big advantage is no cultural fractures. Can you imagine how screwed China or any country would be today if they had a whole population being put into reeducation camps? That place would be a joke.

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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    I disagree, the USG tried with all its might to contain China, from obama's Pivot to Asia to current Biden but it wasn't until Trump that the USG really went jealous psycho ex, frantically trying to contain China, even going so far as to kidnap tech executives' family members and harm its own companies in order to try to stem the rise of China.
    Unfortunately, the United States proved impotent in stopping the Rise of China.

    Look at Huawei as a demonstration of the weakening of US power; the literal USG and its entire natsec establishment threw everything including the kitchen sink to try and destroy Huawei but Huawei survived and is coming back ready to take on pretty much all of america's tech sector; the US is now facing an existential Microsoft and Apple Killer in this year's Huawei. In 2 years time when fabs in China come online, Intel, Nvidia and ARM are gonna be on borrowed time in the Chinese market (really, the only market that matters), and they can thank the US Government for killing their golden goose.



    Excellent analysis.



    If we compare why US society was a lot more cohesive back in the 60s compared to today, a lot of factors come to mind: immigration, changing role of families, debauchery, drugs- all very similar to the fall of Rome




    I don't understand this fear and jealousy that americans have; China is still developing and it's already gotten your pizza gate leaders pissing their pants. China overtaking the US as the pre-eminent world power is not going to make your life or anyone else's life here all that harder- for that, you can blame your leaders, your hunter biden types, your trump and epstein collaborating elites.
    To your first point, I'm not sure they've really tried at all, except for Trump's Trade War and some of repatriation of manufacturing to the United States, and even those efforts were generally lackluster (partly because of Democrat pushback). As much as our leaders talk about getting back at China, I'm not sure they are actually interested in moving forward with it. We haven't increased our military forces in the region significantly, and if anything, the policy wonks in Washington are talking about scaling down our commitment to East Asia. Nor have we really put any significant pressure or incentives to bring the jobs back home, and we have only really worked to swat at Chinese tech companies from muscling into the American market. In any case, I think you overestimate the greatness of Huawei: I've seen my European friends using those phones, and they suck compared to Apple or Samsung.

    The 60s wasn't that great. If anything, the US was just simply better at tampering down dissent from non-dominant groups like women and minorities. The problems definitely existed, they merely came alive and became a public issue with the Civil Rights Movement and Second Wave Feminism.

    American opposition to China has several grounds: First, the country's rise, we know, comes at the expense of the influence and power of the US. Secondly, I think many Americans know that a Chinese-dominated world would be a bad thing morally speaking, as they will set a precedent encouraging open dictatorship and genocide.

    Quote Originally Posted by enoch View Post
    If the US collapsed China would be ed. Lose their biggest trade partner and the double tap of all the US debt they hold being worthless. A totalitarian regime like China would be unlikely to survive such a predicament. Why does everything Exarch posts seem like what a child imagines the world is like?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Funny thing is, i'm actually being sincere and truthful and it's remarkable the level of north korean brainwashing there is amongst these americans.

    Still, i've got 2 bitcoins that say america won't exist as a unified contiguous state before the end of this century. America is already so divided culturally, they're one soviet union style collapse away from balkanisation:

    Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ericas/619012/
    A good parasite knows not to kill its host, but rather to keep the gravy train alive and going so long as the parasite benefits. I can see China changing tactics and trying to somehow prop up the United States after it absorbs the US's influence and alliance network.

    Under Mao and Deng, China played the role of the bad cop, being reclusive and politically repressive. Winnie the Pooh, meanwhile, wants China to be seen as the "good cop," the world's savior. He capitalized off of Europe's pandemic woes to "rescue" them by sending masks and PPE, which did much to change popular opinions towards China for the better. It is also consistent with Xi's recent propaganda initiatives to depict China as a welcoming and peaceful land. And when America falls into distress, if it does, China will be there to offer a helping hand, thus whisking away any ill feeling towards China among the American public.
    Last edited by EmperorBatman999; June 09, 2021 at 11:34 AM.

  4. #104

    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Funny thing is, i'm actually being sincere and truthful and it's remarkable the level of north korean brainwashing there is amongst these americans.

    Still, i've got 2 bitcoins that say america won't exist as a unified contiguous state before the end of this century. America is already so divided culturally, they're one soviet union style collapse away from balkanisation:


    Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ericas/619012/
    You kinda jump to conclusions though. You say this as if America hasn't dealt with division before.

    I mean, granted, we don't feel a great need to shove our muslims(or anybody for that matter) into brainwashing camps...but uhh... we came out of the last major division alright.
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  5. #105

    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Funny thing is, i'm actually being sincere and truthful and it's remarkable the level of north korean brainwashing there is amongst these americans.
    Brainwashing enthusiast here: how does a society with a multitude of media sources ever match the levels of state brainwashing that a society with a unilateral media source has? Would be quite a feat.
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  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Brainwashing enthusiast here: how does a society with a multitude of media sources ever match the levels of state brainwashing that a society with a unilateral media source has? Would be quite a feat.
    A variety of powerful outlets manufacturing a consensus can be more convincing than a single state broadcaster, particularly if viewers/readers are conditioned to believe that dissenting voices are conspiracy theorists, far-right propagandists or foreign agitators.



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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    A variety of powerful outlets manufacturing a consensus can be more convincing than a single state broadcaster, particularly if viewers/readers are conditioned to believe that dissenting voices are conspiracy theorists, far-right propagandists or foreign agitators.
    You don't need any of that dissenting voices conspiracy theorists junk. You just need organisations who benefit from conflict of opinions to promote polarisation to the point of hard conflict in dialogue. We and our biases all do the rest - aligning all of our value sets with those of our chosen side - cognitive dissonance driven self-brain-washing.
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  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    You don't need any of that dissenting voices conspiracy theorists junk. You just need organisations who benefit from conflict of opinions to promote polarisation to the point of hard conflict in dialogue. We and our biases all do the rest - aligning all of our value sets with those of our chosen side - cognitive dissonance driven self-brain-washing.
    Smearing reasonable opposing perspectives as conspiratorial, extremist or subversive is an essential part of the equation; it enforces conformism.



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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Smearing reasonable opposing perspectives as conspiratorial, extremist or subversive is an essential part of the equation; it enforces conformism.
    Virtually everything about that statement is subjective, and relatively easy to accuse of any media depending on what you believe is the truth.
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  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Virtually everything about that statement is subjective, and relatively easy to accuse of any media depending on what you believe is the truth.
    Falsely discrediting competing sources of information is often an essential aspect of manipulation. This observation is only "subjective" (a point which was only raised to act as a placeholder for an argument) to the extent that all social science is subjective.



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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Falsely discrediting competing sources of information is often an essential aspect of manipulation. This observation is only "subjective" (a point which was only raised to act as a placeholder for an argument) to the extent that all social science is subjective.
    I agree with this description, but I disagree that what it seems that you're arguing - the idea that media conspiracies are only perpetrated in a one sided way (coincidentally that which you agree with) in political discourse?

    It is subjective in so much as we all, including you, selectively reason our arguments based on our wider set of biases, and all media use and reinforce those biases to further their own ends - they are the net beneficiaries of our biases. That's where the brain washing lies. It doesn't need to be any more of a conspiracy than that.
    Last edited by antaeus; June 09, 2021 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Removed the straw man
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  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    I agree with this description, but I disagree that what it seems that you're arguing - the idea that media conspiracies are only perpetrated in a one sided way (coincidentally that which you agree with) in political discourse?

    It is subjective in so much as we all, including you, selectively reason our arguments based on our wider set of biases, and all media use and reinforce those biases to further their own ends - they are the net beneficiaries of our biases. That's where the brain washing lies. It doesn't need to be any more of a conspiracy than that.
    (1) It was not claimed that smears/disinformation necessarily formed part of a "conspiracy"; (2) it was not claimed that said smears are perpetrated exclusively by "one side"; (3) confirmation bias thrives especially in the absence (or perceived absence) of countervailing evidence (hence my original point).



  13. #113
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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    (1) It was not claimed that smears/disinformation necessarily formed part of a "conspiracy"; (2) it was not claimed that said smears are perpetrated exclusively by "one side"; (3) confirmation bias thrives especially in the absence (or perceived absence) of countervailing evidence (hence my original point).
    Then we are in agreement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    To your first point, I'm not sure they've really tried at all, except for Trump's Trade War and some of repatriation of manufacturing to the United States, and even those efforts were generally lackluster (partly because of Democrat pushback). As much as our leaders talk about getting back at China, I'm not sure they are actually interested in moving forward with it. We haven't increased our military forces in the region significantly, and if anything, the policy wonks in Washington are talking about scaling down our commitment to East Asia. Nor have we really put any significant pressure or incentives to bring the jobs back home, and we have only really worked to swat at Chinese tech companies from muscling into the American market. In any case, I think you overestimate the greatness of Huawei: I've seen my European friends using those phones, and they suck compared to Apple or Samsung.
    There's a difference between effort and results; the US Elites tried very, very, very hard to try to kill huawei since trump's trade war was to destroy China's rapidly advancing tech dominance and to force a second Plaza Accord on China (Lighthizer was recruited since he was instrumental with the first Plaza Accord).

    End result? Huawei's here to stay, and now Microsoft and Apple have a new competitor as does Nvidia and Intel in SMIC. Trump and the Beltway literally cost the United States her tech lead and dominance for the 21st century, and the tragedy of all of this is that China would've been perfectly happy allowing US companies to have near monopolies in this sector.

    Huawei’s HarmonyOS aims at US tech dominance

    Chinese tech giant seeks to link billions of smartphones to server farms that upload real-time information to big data processing driven by AI
    Source: https://asiatimes.com/2021/06/huawei...ech-dominance/

    Conclusion: US elites are incompetent, but this is to be expected from a class more renowned for hunter biden cocaine fuelled binges and clinton pizza gate paedophilic atrocities. Moral depravity translates into incompetent governance.

    The 60s wasn't that great. If anything, the US was just simply better at tampering down dissent from non-dominant groups like women and minorities. The problems definitely existed, they merely came alive and became a public issue with the Civil Rights Movement and Second Wave Feminism.

    American opposition to China has several grounds: First, the country's rise, we know, comes at the expense of the influence and power of the US. Secondly, I think many Americans know that a Chinese-dominated world would be a bad thing morally speaking, as they will set a precedent encouraging open dictatorship and genocide.
    The United States was literally founded on genocide and white supremacy; a Chinese Hegemon would actually be good for medium to smaller nations like Poland and Hungary, as proven by their growing economic and trade power. Naturally, the EU and US are disgruntled at seeing this since it degrades their own power over these countries, but that's more because their power is not benign else wise these nations would not outright seek Chinese investment and influence.

    What Americans instinctively fear- what Anglos instinctively fear- is actually a loss of privilege. To these privileged white americans, taking away privilege is the equivalent of persecution.

    A good parasite knows not to kill its host, but rather to keep the gravy train alive and going so long as the parasite benefits. I can see China changing tactics and trying to somehow prop up the United States after it absorbs the US's influence and alliance network.

    Under Mao and Deng, China played the role of the bad cop, being reclusive and politically repressive. Winnie the Pooh, meanwhile, wants China to be seen as the "good cop," the world's savior. He capitalized off of Europe's pandemic woes to "rescue" them by sending masks and PPE, which did much to change popular opinions towards China for the better. It is also consistent with Xi's recent propaganda initiatives to depict China as a welcoming and peaceful land. And when America falls into distress, if it does, China will be there to offer a helping hand, thus whisking away any ill feeling towards China among the American public.
    You are correct; China doesn't seek the destruction of the US and would prefer to work with and trade with the US however the same cannot be said for the christian fundamentalists in the US natsec/corrupt beltway elites. These are the equivalent of christian ISIS. Only fire and sword will tame these christian death cults.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    You kinda jump to conclusions though. You say this as if America hasn't dealt with division before.

    I mean, granted, we don't feel a great need to shove our muslims(or anybody for that matter) into brainwashing camps...but uhh... we came out of the last major division alright.
    The FBI under J Edgar Hoover was instrumental in destroying the Black Panthers as a major figurehead for black splittism; america's divisions today may be enough to result in balkanisation especially given open death squads murdering citizens of different races.

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Brainwashing enthusiast here: how does a society with a multitude of media sources ever match the levels of state brainwashing that a society with a unilateral media source has? Would be quite a feat.
    You assume US media is truly objective when it's nothing more than decentralised government stenography and presstitutes:





    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    A variety of powerful outlets manufacturing a consensus can be more convincing than a single state broadcaster, particularly if viewers/readers are conditioned to believe that dissenting voices are conspiracy theorists, far-right propagandists or foreign agitators.
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    You don't need any of that dissenting voices conspiracy theorists junk. You just need organisations who benefit from conflict of opinions to promote polarisation to the point of hard conflict in dialogue. We and our biases all do the rest - aligning all of our value sets with those of our chosen side - cognitive dissonance driven self-brain-washing.
    This is actually what we're seeing here: libertarian no maskers who don't trust the United States government appear to believe everything they're told about China.
    Truly, american freedom right there.
    If anything, it reveals the startling lack of objective thinking amongst the american population.

    In fact, this lack of self awareness is evident in the delusion when 30% of Republicans believe their messiah, Trump will be reinstated:
    ]
    Almost 30% of Republicans believe Trump will be reinstated as president – poll
    Source: https://www.rt.com/usa/526144-donald-trump-president/

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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    If anything, it reveals the startling lack of objective thinking amongst the american population.
    The American population are not unique here. All populations, including your beloved Chinese population fall into easily manipulated group think. The difference being Americans have choice over which group think they identify with - they walk openly into the abyss, Your beloved Chinese population do not - instead they are marched into the abyss.
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  16. #116
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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    The American population are not unique here. All populations, including your beloved Chinese population fall into easily manipulated group think. The difference being Americans have choice over which group think they identify with - they walk openly into the abyss, Your beloved Chinese population do not - instead they are marched into the abyss.
    Is there a difference?
    Chinese people historically don't tolerate poor governance given the history of revolution and civil revolt, they sure as hell don't tolerate billionaires getting away with crimes as they do in the US, because the United States is a billionaires' oligarchy.
    At least the French have been known to overthrow incompetent governments.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ion-and-bigamy

    This sort of thing would not fly in the US simply because the US is effectively an oligarchy, similar to the corrupt roman republic prior to Caesar. this is why like pizza gate occurs in america.

    Hence corruption, rotting the soul of this once great nation of slavers.

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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    What Americans instinctively fear- what Anglos instinctively fear- is actually a loss of privilege. To these privileged white americans, taking away privilege is the equivalent of persecution.

    These are the equivalent of christian ISIS. Only fire and sword will tame these christian death cults.

    especially given open death squads murdering citizens of different races.
    An aside, love the Trumpers hate/mockery.

    1) Very true

    2) False then true

    3) Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

    I get it now. You live in China and are regurgitating the media you are permitted to access which in your case is solely the state media (like most Chinese). You genuinely believe the US is in the state you argue it is. I thought you were just a brilliant troll. To learn it is just ignorance. LEL

  18. #118
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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    There's a difference between effort and results; the US Elites tried very, very, very hard to try to kill huawei since trump's trade war was to destroy China's rapidly advancing tech dominance and to force a second Plaza Accord on China (Lighthizer was recruited since he was instrumental with the first Plaza Accord).

    End result? Huawei's here to stay, and now Microsoft and Apple have a new competitor as does Nvidia and Intel in SMIC. Trump and the Beltway literally cost the United States her tech lead and dominance for the 21st century, and the tragedy of all of this is that China would've been perfectly happy allowing US companies to have near monopolies in this sector.


    Source: https://asiatimes.com/2021/06/huawei...ech-dominance/

    Conclusion: US elites are incompetent, but this is to be expected from a class more renowned for hunter biden cocaine fuelled binges and clinton pizza gate paedophilic atrocities. Moral depravity translates into incompetent governance.

    The United States was literally founded on genocide and white supremacy; a Chinese Hegemon would actually be good for medium to smaller nations like Poland and Hungary, as proven by their growing economic and trade power. Naturally, the EU and US are disgruntled at seeing this since it degrades their own power over these countries, but that's more because their power is not benign else wise these nations would not outright seek Chinese investment and influence.

    What Americans instinctively fear- what Anglos instinctively fear- is actually a loss of privilege. To these privileged white americans, taking away privilege is the equivalent of persecution.

    You are correct; China doesn't seek the destruction of the US and would prefer to work with and trade with the US however the same cannot be said for the christian fundamentalists in the US natsec/corrupt beltway elites. These are the equivalent of christian ISIS. Only fire and sword will tame these christian death cults.
    Your article shows exactly why the US had to ban Huawei phones. That information-gathering capability puts the privacy of private American citizens and government officials at risk. Western phone companies aren't much better in terms of privacy, but it's not the same sort of insanity the Chinese government has gotten into.

    America was built in part on genocide, but I think our country has moved on considerably from the days of the Indian Wars and most Americans now recognize that we were guilty. There is still much to done in order to improve the quality of life on many reservations around the country, of course. Conversely, the US has turned to stopping genocides: for example, we bombed Belgrade to get the Serbs out of Bosnia-Herzegovina. China, meanwhile, is actively launching multiple genocides and ethnic persecutions, pretty much affecting all their non-Han subjects. Evidently, it's got their strategic/economic partners inspired: see the recent atrocities committed by the Ethiopian government against the Tigray people.

    As far as Poland and Hungary are concerned: naturally authoritarian, illiberal governments will be more likely to partner with fellow authoritarians. Orban is one of the most corrupt leaders in Europe, probably second only to Berlusconi and Lukashenko. Privatization and market integration may have been poorly executed in the former-Warsaw Pact, but I think that these countries are trading the meddlesome neighbor they know for the tyrant they don't. Once China's dominance is confidently secured, they'll turn to squeezing these countries for all they got. They're already milking Africa, all to those countries' detriments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Is there a difference?
    Chinese people historically don't tolerate poor governance given the history of revolution and civil revolt, they sure as hell don't tolerate billionaires getting away with crimes as they do in the US, because the United States is a billionaires' oligarchy.
    At least the French have been known to overthrow incompetent governments.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ion-and-bigamy

    This sort of thing would not fly in the US simply because the US is effectively an oligarchy, similar to the corrupt roman republic prior to Caesar. this is why like pizza gate occurs in america.

    Hence corruption, rotting the soul of this once great nation of slavers.
    What history of revolution? China has been one of the most stable political entities in history, with dynasties only changing every two or three centuries, if that. The reverence for 1911 and 1949 are cultivated only to serve as the background to the CCP's narrative on why they belong in power. And the Chinese will not be revolting any time soon: they can't, because they live in a security state where all people are subject to intense surveillance and forced to live under a social credit system that acts as a societal shock collar.

    And the CCP doesn't tolerate billionaires who go against the wishes of the government. Jack Ma, for example, was left alone until he began spouting off against the Chinese government, and then he was drawn and quartered on the public square as an example for the rest. Authoritarian governments tend to work with oligarchs until those oligarchs verge from the good graces of the government, and the state then draws up corruption charges that they had been saving for a rainy day.
    Last edited by EmperorBatman999; June 10, 2021 at 01:35 AM.

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    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    China is known for being subjugated by dynasts. That and rolling over that guy with the tank in the Tittiesmens Square. Making all the junk the US needs to spend its immense wealth on too. China is a third world country.

  20. #120

    Default Re: The Decline Of The United States of America

    Cool racism. Keep it up. Expose yourself completely.
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