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Thread: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

  1. #61

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    What is your source on all Abrahamic adherents thinking the world was only 6000 years old at the time? My understanding is that was a issue of contention.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    What is your source on all Abrahamic adherents thinking the world was only 6000 years old at the time? My understanding is that was a issue of contention.
    If you don't start.answering my question I will stop anwering yours.

    https://answersingenesis.org/age-of-...-is-the-earth/ Pretty mich everyone thought the world was young back then. (To avoid a 2nd post from you, I never said precisely 6,000 years. As you can see, the values are in the same ballpark.) Someone mentioned you.were a former semknsry studemt, must not have been one for.long if you.don't know what I.am.telling yoi.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; August 17, 2020 at 01:18 PM.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    The source has nothing to do with what was thought in the ancient world. It is my understanding that the 4000ish BC gained much of its popularity in the European world due to it being printed in the KJB.

    Plenty of evidence that literal interpretations of Genesis have competed with allegorical interpretations for as long as commentary on Genesis existed.

    Long before Irenaus Philo wrote an allegorical commentary on Genesis taught to this day.

    Which question would you most like answered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    If you don't start.answering my question I will stop anwering yours.

    https://answersingenesis.org/age-of-...-is-the-earth/ Pretty mich everyone thought the world was young back then. (To avoid a 2nd post from you, I never said precisely 6,000 years. As you can see, the values are in the same ballpark.) Someone mentioned you.were a former semknsry studemt, must not have been one for.long if you.don't know what I.am.telling yoi.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    The source has nothing to do with what was thought in the ancient world. It is my understanding that the 4000ish BC gained much of its popularity in the European world due to it being printed in the KJB.
    Did you read it? It had tables listing how old various civilization thought the earth was In modern times, yes the date in the KJB influence thr ideas of young earth today, but ancient people though the earth was young too..

    Plenty of evidence that literal interpretations of Genesis have competed with allegorical interpretations for as long as commentary on Genesis existed.
    Still most ancient Jews and Christians thought the earth was young. just thousands of years. before modern times.


    Long before Irenaus Philo wrote an allegorical commentary on Genesis taught to this day.
    Allegorical interpretation does not tell you what age they thought the earth

    Anyways how old the earth was has nothing to do with hadiths, so please drop the age of the earth subject. I gave a source that listed tables of ages of earth if you scroll down


    Which question would you most like answered?

    On Persian Zoroastrians and Jews collecting hadiths as you said, what was the source?

  5. #65

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom

    The Islamic Golden Age under the Abbasids. Will find something with more depth I have time to dig.

    Highly recommend In the Shadow of the Sword by Tom Holland. Love his works. Also wrote a phenomenal book about a Vampyric Lord Byron in his early days.

    Jews, Zoroastrians And Christians.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_Al-Khuri

    Whether the house of wisdom is a place or a metaphor for the wonder that was Baghdad at this time.
    Last edited by wanderwegger; August 17, 2020 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Book rec

  6. #66

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom

    The Islamic Golden Age under the Abbasids. Will find something with more depth I have time to dig.

    Highly recommend In the Shadow of the Sword by Tom Holland. Love his works. Also wrote a phenomenal book about a Vampyric Lord Byron in his early days.


    Link does not talk about the House of Wisdom collecting hadiths or other religous writings. Do you have any evidence.it collected hadiths. I thoughf House of Wisdom was for collecting science and philosphical works, not religous ones.

    Note, hadirhs would not need translating so there would be no need for Persians to handle the hadiths
    Last edited by Common Soldier; August 17, 2020 at 04:55 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Nestorian Christians in particular. “During the reign of Al-Mansur (714–775 CE), it was common for Jews and Christians to influence the overall culture in the Caliphate, specifically in Baghdad. Jews and Christians did this by participating in scholarly work and Christians even influenced Islamic funeral service tradition.”


    [100] Sharkey, Heather (2017). A History of Muslims, Christians, and Jews in the Middle East. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 27–30. ISBN 9780521186872.









  8. #68

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Nestorian Christians in particular. “During the reign of Al-Mansur (714–775 CE), it was common for Jews and Christians to influence the overall culture in the Caliphate, specifically in Baghdad. Jews and Christians did this by participating in scholarly work and Christians even influenced Islamic funeral service tradition.”


    [100] Sharkey, Heather (2017). A History of Muslims, Christians, and Jews in the Middle East. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 27–30. ISBN 9780521186872.








    Says nothing about religous writings or the hadiths. Christians would nor know about Muhammads life, and could not evaluate validity of the hadiths. They would not be involve with the collecting of hadiths

    In the future, when you are speculating let people know, so both yours and our time are not waste trying to pursue non existent sources.

    You clearly were just making up claims. If you don't have direct knowledge but are just guessing, then you need to say that when you present the claim. You need to explain the reasoning of how you reached your guess.

    My mistake for being foolish enough to think you might oknow about the hadith collection process when you knew nothing about the hadiths themselves.
    Last edited by chriscase; August 17, 2020 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Let’s keep it impersonal.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Christians even influenced Islamic funeral service tradition


    Seems religious

  10. #70

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Christians even influenced Islamic funeral service tradition


    Seems religious
    Funerals are not religous writings. They are religous customs, something fundamentally different.

    Comparing a funeral to a hadith is like comparing a funeral to a work of philosophy.

    And they might have influenced funeral customs, but many of the hadiths are very, very different from Christian thoughts and practices - hadiths on marriage,divorce, inheritance, behaviour of Muhammad. If Christians were influencing the hadith they did funeral, marriags practices in the hadith would not be so differentm

  11. #71

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Are there hadiths on religious funeral services?


    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Funerals are not religous writings. They are religous customs, something fundamentally different.

    Comparing a funeral to a hadith is like comparing a funeral to a work of philosophy.

    And they might have influenced funeral customs, but many of the hadiths are very, very different from Christian thoughts and practices - hadiths on marriage,divorce, inheritance, behaviour of Muhammad. If Christians were influencing the hadith they did funeral, marriags practices in the hadith would not be so differentm

  12. #72

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Are there hadiths on religious funeral services?
    There are hadiths talk about funerals, but they do not discuss the detail of funeral services themselves as far as I can tell. But I have not read all the hadiths

    One hadith said you should stand up when a funeral procession passes by. Othera talk about how the dead daughter of Muhammad body shoukd be washed 3 or 4 times. They do not seem particularly Christian practices. but I am not an expert on 8th or 9th century Middle East Christian practices.


    Here is a linm to Al-Bukhari's funeral hadiths https://sunnah.com/bukhari/23
    m

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