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Thread: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

  1. #1

    Default Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    When you read the hadiths about Muhammad from even the most trusted Muslim sources, what they sometimes say about Muhammad is so bad that it even the worst enemies of Islam would have invented because no one would believe that the stories.

    For example, there are hadiths (stories about the sayings and doings of Muhammad, usually short, just a few paragraphs, and often dealing with thr background of a particar verse in the Quran) from the most trusted Muslim sources that tell the following about Muhammad.

    1. Muhammad would only get revelations from Allah while wearing his wife Aisha's clothes

    2. There was a verse in the Koran about have women suckle grown men who were not their husbands with their breasts as a way to avoid having the men avoid lusting after them. This verse was lost ro thr Koran when a tame sheep ate that part of the Koran when his wices were distracted after Muhammad's death.

    3. There was a verse in the Koran about stoning adulterers, but that verse was also lost when eaten by the previously mentioned sheep


    4. Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and had sex with her when she was 9.

    5. Muhammad had his critics killed, including a woman poet who was sleeping with her young child

    6. Muhammad initially thought he was possesed by a demon and thought about suicide, but talked out of it by his first wife.

    7. The entire Satanic verse thing - your prophet can't tell revelations coming from Satan from those coming from Allah? Maybe the entire Koran comes from Satan and Muhammad was right in his first impression about being demon possesed?

    Some of the hadiths might have bothered ancient Muslims, such as Aisha only being 9; even today some Muslim teachers defend such actions, and some Muslim countries like Iran have no minimum age limkt for marriage. And killing your critics might be considered by many Muslims a good thing. But having your prophet wear women's clothing? That sounds like someone inventing a story as an inside joke for people he believed were so gullible that would believe anything.

    And losing parts of your perfectly preserved Koran because parts of it were eaten by a sheep? Come on. And having revelations about breeast feeding adult men to avoid lust? No one would ever believe that to be real, but assume they were just invented by the enemies of Islam if those stories hadn't been hadn't come from the Muslims own sources.

    Lest anyone think I am inventing these hadiths, here is the one on breast feedinf from Sahih Muslim, which along with Sahih Bukhari are regarded as the most reliable set of hadiths, regarded by most Muslims as second only to the Koran https://quranx.com/Hadith/Muslim/USC...8/Hadith-3425/


    Note, when al-Bukhari put together his collection of good hadiths, he had to sort through some 600,000 hadith to find some 7,000 odd hadiths he considered good, meaning something like 98% of a hadiths were bogus. Sahib Muslim had 59 sort through similar numbers, and also found similar small percentage of the hadiths as valid. I wonder whar kind of value system these guys had not come across a hadith on breast feeding adults and not say "Give me a break, this hadith can't bd real". What kind of criteria were they using that allowed breast feeding adult men to avoid lust to pass the muster as legit?

    And while some hadiths aren't quite as silly as sheep eating the Koran or breast feedinf adults, they cover such trivial and mundane topics you wonder why anyone care or why they were bothered to be preserved, such as Aisha sharing a tub with Muhammad when she took a bath, or Muhammad could sexually satisfy all his wives in one night because he had the strength of 30 men* https://quranx.com/hadith/Bukhari/US...-5/Hadith-268/

    *However there was another hadith that said Muhammad had only imagined he had sex with all his wives in one night https://quranx.com/hadith/Bukhari/US...71/Hadith-660/ Looking at all these hadiths, do you really think they were meant to be taken seriously or were the inventors of them rolling on the floor with laughter?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    I'm not massively familiar with the culture this came from, but I think it comes from a culture where a lot of these aren't seen as negative in their original context. But I know a little bit about Aisha.

    According to some scholars, she is given a young age to guarantee that she's a virgin. And not being a virgin when she marries Muhammad would be worse than marrying a child, because this is not that far removed from the Greek world of pedarasty.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzard View Post
    I'm not massively familiar with the culture this came from, but I think it comes from a culture where a lot of these aren't seen as negative in their original context. But I know a little bit about Aisha.

    According to some scholars, she is given a young age to guarantee that she's a virgin. And not being a virgin when she marries Muhammad would be worse than marrying a child, because this is not that far removed from the Greek world of pedarasty.
    I agree that some of the hadiths likely would not have been considered bad at the time, such as lighting a fire.on a man's chest to torture him ro find our.where he hid some money of a village you conquered. Bur what society would support women breast feeding grown men as a way to avoid lust? And what ancient society would think it ok for men ro wear women's clothing? If anyone other than Muhammad had command it, Muslims would have killed him.

    Also, a "sheep" ate the Koran? That is like the dog ate my homework, but since dogs are considered disfusting ans evil creatures, a sheep was used instead. No Muslim would allow a dog to wander in the bedroom and munch on the Koran the way the sheep did.

    And some of the wives of Muhammad were widows, so being a virgin was not that important. Muhammad's first wife Khadijah had been married before and was not a virgin either. And any sociery that thinks you have to marry a 9 year old to ensure she is a virgin is a sick and immoral society

    Note, despite some ro whitewash Muhammad, few even ancient socieries okayed marriages and having sex with prepubescent girls. Moat societies had a minimum age of around puberty, which back in ancient times would typically be 12 to 14. Only with better nutrition and possibly modern chemical contaminants so you see girls reaching puberty at 9 or 10 https://www.sciencealert.com/girls-a...g-term-effects

    I recall one Roman writer making the snide remark when 50 year old Pompey married a 21 year old that the woman would be better suited to be the bride of Pompey's son than Pompey. But I agree that pre-modern Muslims saw nothing wrong with having sex with prebubescent 9 year old girls, they only started having problems with Aisha's when they realized all non-Muslim world, 3/4 of the world thought it disgusting for a 50 year old having sex with a 9 year old. You started seeing Muslims flat out lie and claim Aisha was really 19 or some other lie, but unfortunately for those Muslims there simply too many sources that clearly show Aisha was only 9. You don't see Buddha, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Alexander the Great, Caesar, Ghengis Khan Attila the Hun or even Adolph Hitler having sex with 9 yewr old girls.. It shows sick Islamic morality is that it ever thought it was ok.

    Note, Muslims frequently flat out lie. The worst was when Yusuf Estes said Alexander the Great founded the Catholic Church in Rome and insisted it was on the Catholic Churches website!! http://en.protothema.gr/alexander-th...m-sheik-video/ So take anything those scholars say with a great deal of skepticism and fact check them.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Did the Muslims who created the hadith secretly hate Muhammad and Islam?

    And slavery was considered acceptable in Roman times. This doesn’t mean that following the Roman example through organised religion still isn’t a bad thing.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

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