Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

[Vanoi]

This is what I said:



Since the left-right spectrum is not (at least to the best of my knowledge) recognized in law, the description of certain militants as belonging to the "far-left" is a generic one derived from reasonable observation.

Simply observation can now tell you the political affiliation of people you see? Give me a break. You just don't want to admit you label rioters as leftists without any proof.

I have not criticized the article; I have criticized the attempts to distract from the criminality and unrest associated with Floyd protests via the introduction of generalized arguments about terrorism.

Just because you didn't read and don't want to talk about the article doesn't mean its a distraction especially when it deals with the very subjects you mentioned. I think its obvious you're avoiding it because the conclusions of the article don't fit your bias.

[Cope]

Still at it Cope?

I'm responding to contradictory allegations: you claim that the officers knowledge of the knife should have dissuaded them from pursuing Blake; Love Mountain claims that there is no evidence that the officers were threatened by, or even knew of, the knife.

Police were called to the scene of a domestic dispute. The charges against Blake also concerned a domestic situation. As much as you like to qualify Blake as an armed felon, there were no grounds to assume he posed a threat to the general public.

First, I have not claimed that Blake was an armed felon; I have claimed that he was/is a suspected armed felon. Second, the police union released a statement in which they say that the officers knew Blake was wanted for felony sexual assault prior to arriving on the scene. This claim - which is corroborated in part by the dispatch recording - indicates that the officers did have grounds for assuming that Blake posed a threat to the general public.

You're shifting the goalposts. Again. I never said it would be illegal for him to do so. I said it was poor judgement.

It was neither illegal, nor poor judgement. On the contrary, I expect police officers to pursue rape suspects.

Blake wrestled himself free from several officers just moments before. He ignored the threat of having a gun pointed at him. At that point, it's bordering on certainty that a one handed tug on a shirt isn't going to stop Blake. Anything else would have to be considered wishful thinking.

Speculation. Note again that preventing Blake from taking charge of the vehicle is not synonymous with stopping him entirely.

Yet at the same time, police officers do not have the right to use lethal force to prevent suspects from getting away, unless those suspects pose a serious threat to either the officers or bystanders. Their weapon is for their own defense and that of bystanders only. Not as an 'or else' to an order to surrender.

The officer will not argue that he discharged his weapon to prevent Blake from escaping; he will claim that he reasonably believed that he was in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

[Cope]

Simply observation can now tell you the political affiliation of people you see? Give me a break. You just don't want to admit you label rioters as leftists without any proof.

I do not accuse all rioters of being leftist militants; I accused militant leftists of being among the rioters.

Just because you didn't read and don't want to talk about the article doesn't mean its a distraction especially when it deals with the very subjects you mentioned. I think its obvious you're avoiding it because the conclusions of the article don't fit your bias.

I did not criticize the article, nor its fleeting reference to the Floyd killing. I criticized the introduction of talking points about terrorism which were used - and are still being used - to distract from the criminality associated with the Floyd protests. Your citation of terror statistics dating back to 1994 on at least three separate occasions illustrates my point.

[Vanoi]

I do not accuse all rioters of being leftist militants; I accused militant leftists of being among the rioters.

Actually you said in your earlier quoted post you know far left militants are committing crimes across the US. Those exact words on fact. Then of course you don't go on to elaborate your claim at all.

I did not criticize the article, nor its fleeting reference to the Floyd killing. I criticized the introduction of talking points about terrorism which were used - and are still being used - to distract from the criminality associated with the Floyd protests. Your citation of terror statistics dating back to 1994 on at least three separate occasions illustrates my point.

The reference to terror attacks deals with my posts and HH, not you. Its why i pointed out in my article that its more than just terrorism.

If you don't want to talk about terrorism thats fine. My article has points regarding crime and rising extremism among the right wing and how its connected to the George Floyd protests.

Feel free to address these points anytime. I can also post my article about the FBI and their focus on right-wing groups.

[Heathen Hammer]

You mean the article that you posted 2 pages ago where FBI guy said that organizations like BLM are the leading type of terrorist threat?

[Muizer]

First, I have not claimed that Blake was an armed felon; I have claimed that he was/is a suspected armed felon. Second, the police union released a statement in which they say that the officers knew Blake was wanted for felony sexual assault prior to arriving on the scene. This claim - which is corroborated in part by the dispatch recording - indicates that the officers did have grounds for assuming that Blake posed a threat to the general public.

As far as I know the police did indeed know what Blake was suspected of. What is incorrect is that that is a grounds for assuming Blake posed a threat to the general public. I wonder what you base that assumption on.

It was neither illegal, nor poor judgement. On the contrary, I expect police officers to pursue rape suspects.

That's a non-sequitur. It is quite possible to pursue a rape suspect incompetently.

Speculation.

If you insist on calling that. I call it risk assessment. Either way, it's an important part of a policeman's job.

Note again that preventing Blake from taking charge of the vehicle is not synonymous with stopping him entirely.

I don't see that as relevant to my argument tbh.

The officer will not argue that he discharged his weapon to prevent Blake from escaping; he will claim that he reasonably believed that he was in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

And my 'incompetence' claim concerns that he should not have been in that position and then you will once more excise risk assessment from factors determining 'competence'.

[Vanoi]

You mean the article that you posted 2 pages ago where FBI guy said that organizations like BLM are the leading type of terrorist threat?

So the FBI said BLM is a national security priority now?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/raciall...pher-wray/#app

Where do the say BLM HH?

[Sir Adrian]

They say BLM right here

Racially-motivated violent extremists

Unless you know other racially motivated groups that oppose capitalism are violently protesting right now.

[Vanoi]

They say BLM right here



Unless you know other racially motivated groups that oppose capitalism are violently protesting right now.

Do they specifically mention BLM or not? Because if you bothered to read the article you would have seen this:

Racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists, or domestic terrorists motivated by racial or religious hatred, make up a "huge chunk" of the FBI's domestic terrorism investigations, Wray said in statements before the Senate Homeland Security Committee last November. The majority of those attacks are "fueled by some type of white supremacy," he said.

In fact the rest of the article goes on to specifically mention white supremacists.

[Heathen Hammer]

Racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists, or domestic terrorists motivated by racial or religious hatred, make up a "huge chunk" of the FBI's domestic terrorism investigations, Wray said in statements before the Senate Homeland Security Committee last November.

Sounds like perfect description of BLM's race riots this year.

[Vanoi]

Sounds like perfect description of BLM's race riots this year.

Is this where you try to pass off your opinion as fact again?

Does FBI say HH that BLM is a racist violent extremist organization? You claimed they did. I'm waiting.

[Heathen Hammer]

Is this where you try to pass off your opinion as fact again?

If you personally are fine with BLM's particular brand of racial extremism, it still falls under category outlined in the article you yourself posted.

[Love Mountain]

This is false. [*]At no point did you mention or acknowledge the DOJ's claim that Blake had confessed to being in possession of a knife.

[*]At no point did you mention or acknowledge that investigators found the knife on the driver's side floorboard of the vehicle (after having falsely claimed that investigators had not commented on "where they [had] found it [the knife]")

Both points are irrelevant to the discussion. At no point between now and 10 pages ago, was there a confirmation that Blake was armed. Quite the contrary, your allegation was based on a poor quality still from a video. The guy who took the video himself said he did not see a knife.

The five key pieces of evidence which suggest that Blake was armed at the time of the incident remain valid.

In other words, there is no actual confirmation that Blake was armed. Your evidence relies almost entirely on a poor still of a video, and a claim from people with the most incentive to lie.

[Vanoi]

If you personally are fine with BLM's particular brand of racial extremism, it still falls under category outlined in the article you yourself posted.

Hey if you can't prove the FBI said BLM was a racist extremist group then just say so.

[Infidel144]

Police are only allowed to use deadly force if the suspect is an imminent and serious threat against the officer or others.

Yet at the same time, police officers do not have the right to use lethal force to prevent suspects from getting away, unless those suspects pose a serious threat to either the officers or bystanders. Their weapon is for their own defense and that of bystanders only.

How about quoting the actual standard.

[Cope]

Actually you said in your earlier quoted post you know far left militants are committing crimes across the US. Those exact words on fact. Then of course you don't go on to elaborate your claim at all.

Examples of left-wing militancy associated with the Floyd protests have been documented throughout this thread. Some instances that come to mind: The murder of Aaron Danielson; the firebombing of police vehicles in NY; the attack against officers in Grant Park, CHI; the felony hit and run of a Trump supporter in WA; the attempts to torch Ted Wheeler's apartment; and the attacks against federal courthouse in Portland.

The reference to terror attacks deals with my posts and HH, not you. Its why i pointed out in my article that its more than just terrorism.

If you don't want to talk about terrorism thats fine. My article has points regarding crime and rising extremism among the right wing and how its connected to the George Floyd protests.

Feel free to address these points anytime. I can also post my article about the FBI and their focus on right-wing groups.

The issue of terrorist incidents related to the Floyd demonstrations (or the lack thereof) has already been addressed.

[Sir Adrian]

Do they specifically mention BLM or not? Because if you bothered to read the article you would have seen this:



In fact the rest of the article goes on to specifically mention white supremacists.

That does not exclude BLM. IN fact BLM have done a lot to include themselves there.

[B. W.]

Black citizens show white police officer how to correctly bring down a black man that is resisting arrest:

https://twitter.com/GrantB911/status...ted-happens%2F

[Love Mountain]

Examples of left-wing militancy associated with the Floyd protests have been documented throughout this thread. Some instances that come to mind: The murder of Aaron Danielson; the firebombing of police vehicles in NY; the attack against officers in Grant Park, CHI; the felony hit and run of a Trump supporter in WA; the attempts to torch Ted Wheeler's apartment; and the attacks against federal courthouse in Portland.

You're confused about civil unrest and crime.

That does not exclude BLM. IN fact BLM have done a lot to include themselves there.

So BLM is not a terrorist organization then? Good. I'm glad we could get that settled.

[Infidel144]

Black citizens show white police officer how to correctly bring down a black man that is resisting arrest:

https://twitter.com/GrantB911/status...ted-happens%2F

Cop needs to lay off the donuts and do some laps. Could have had a good tani otoshi in there (with some training) (though not necessarily advisable).