Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

[Warriordude]

The ones violating curfew are probably the stupid whites trying to be politically correct in siding with the black man. Looters they don't catch

That doesn't make any sense, where have I been last ten years, question should be where have you been it's 2020, you honestly think there is systematic racism and keep a straight face.

[Gaidin]

That doesn't make any sense, where have I been last ten years, question should be where have you been it's 2020, you honestly think there is systematic racism and keep a straight face.

Look, I'm going to do a very strange thing for me as an atheist as I finally go to bed. I'm going to leave you with a chapter of the Bible. What you do with it is up to you.

Luke Chapter 15.

[Warriordude]

Before I go, spitting on cops, looting, burning and killing cops is not going to help whatever cause you are trying to do by "peaceful Protesting". this will set back the black communities by decades. nice talking to you good night

[swabian]

Well... Gaidin's got himself an eager fan LOL ahahahahaha

Can i ing touch that already? Is it contagious

[PointOfViewGun]

I have another fact, The real reason blacks get pulled over or stopped more than whites, they live in crime ridden neighborhoods. Blacks kill each other by the thousands, no one says a peep, soon as the democratic controlled media hears about a black man getting killed by a white cop, all hell breaks loose ridiculous.

Interesting that you take issue with holding police officers to higher standards than we do for thugs. The issue here is discriminatory police brutality or targeting.

RACE AND WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES

African Americans are only 13% of the American population but a majority of innocent defendants wrongfully convicted of crimes and later exonerated. They constitute 47% of the 1,900 exonerations listed in the National Registry of Exonerations (as of October 2016), and the great majority of more than 1,800 additional innocent defendants who were framed and convicted of crimes in 15 large-scale police scandals and later cleared in “group exonerations.”

A Multi-Level Bayesian Analysis of Racial Bias in Police Shootings at the County-Level in the United States, 2011–2014

The results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being {black, unarmed, and shot by police} is about 3.49 times the probability of being {white, unarmed, and shot by police} on average.

you are pretty good at checking whites killing whites, check whites dying from chokeholds by police, wonder what that would show, might have to check that stat.

I just wonder how many whites get killed by police chokehold , that the democratic media never reports.

Why don't you show us some statistics for that? While you do that, can you also find statistics for the average number of bullets in a white or black body shot by cops?

My point earlier was, why do blacks get so upset that a black man that is a total stranger got killed by a white man, you never get upset at blacks killing backs.

Perhaps because when black people kill other black people the system works the way its supposed to while it takes a nationwide protests to get the system to act in response to a white cop killing a black man senselessly. The cop felt so entitled that he didn't change his course of action with people filing what he's doing as the man lay unconsciously on the ground.

Before I go, spitting on cops, looting, burning and killing cops is not going to help whatever cause you are trying to do by "peaceful Protesting". this will set back the black communities by decades. nice talking to you good night

Which cop killing are you referring to?

[Cope]

Perhaps because when black people kill other black people the system works the way its supposed to while it takes a nationwide protests to get the system to act in response to a white cop killing a black man senselessly. The cop felt so entitled that he didn't change his course of action with people filing what he's doing as the man lay unconsciously on the ground.

What evidence do you have to show that the system acts differently depending on the racial characteristics of either the officer or the victim? There is a general lack of criminal convictions for police brutality/malpractice, not a lack of criminal convictions in cases where the complainant/victim is African American.

[Sar1n]

Interesting that you take issue with holding police officers to higher standards than we do for thugs. The issue here is discriminatory police brutality or targeting.

RACE AND WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES


A Multi-Level Bayesian Analysis of Racial Bias in Police Shootings at the County-Level in the United States, 2011–2014

Now this is just the kind of disinterpretation of data that makes your cause look bad.
The ratio of wrongful convictions is actually very similar to the ratio of actual crime committed by blacks. Which means that they're not wrongfully convicted at higher rate than others. They just commit in total more crimes, and thus are proportionally more often wrongfully convicted.

Which brings me to next problem. Making everything being about race. While it is indisputable that officers used excessive force while arresting Floyd, nobody asked why. Everyone jumped the gun and called it racism. No mention that Floyd had history of armed crime and was under influence of drugs, of which the arresting officers were aware.

Which cop killing are you referring to?

Offhand I recall the case of Daniel Dorn, retired black police officer shot and killed when defending a shop. A brief search yielded another name:
David Patrick Underwood, Oakland. Shot and killed on duty while providing security at courthouse during protest.

[Kritias]

A few observations:

1. About store lootings. Y'all seem to forget that this is happening amidst the coronavirus crisis, where 40+ million people have lost their jobs already. Now, I don't know how the system works in the US when you file for unemployment, but in the UK the process can get as long as six months for the first installment to be cleared. If similar, 40+ million people are staring at very grim survival prospects right about now. And then you see these people looting Target and other stores, carrying off what they can. And we have this knee-jerk reaction to it, so we don't think what it means. They didn't loot Target to get them some free AirPods, they looted Target in order to pawn it off and EAT. Don't forget that a good chunk of the population was already living paycheck to paycheck, not to mention those trapped in payday loan situations - and they just lost their lifeline. If anything, you should all be condemning the incompetence of the government for letting the economy fail so massively during a pandemic. Don't look at the symptom, look at the cause.

2. I am bewildered by the protests and the riots, to be honest. One hundred thousand people have died already from the pandemic, in a country with such vast production capabilities and so advanced medicine that should have made corona-virus an entirely preventable situation for everybody but the most susceptible (pre-existing conditions etc). In fact, thousands die every year from preventable diseases and conditions easily treatable in most advanced countries. Hell, even bankrupt Greece, dealing with a refugee crisis on the side, managed to keep the toll to less than two hundred people. So, it's confusing to me that police brutality is where people decided to draw the line, instead - I don't know - where they are supposed to be left to die because they are poor and can't afford the basic right to life?! It's one of those oxymoron where you guys go, "It's okay to let me die, but DON'T TREAD ON ME." The only people protesting against the handling of the virus were, funnily, the AstroTurf(google it) movement of quarantine=communism lot.

3. There seems to be confusion about what systemic racism is, and I think this term is tossed around very casually and to little effect. Systemic racism is the collection of beliefs, actions, and prejudices that disproportionately target minorities. When Amy Cooper threatened the man videotaping her to call the cops on him and lie that she was being 'assaulted by a black person', she knew exactly what Systemic Racism was and how to weaponize it. When Ahmed Arbery was gunned down, the perpetrators placed a call with the local PD to inform them that "a black man was running down the street". In their minds, running while black = criminal. The Mapping Police Violence site shows that in 2019 there were just 27 days the police didn't kill someone in the US. From those, about a quarter were black people, and another quarter were other minorities. By itself, this data says nothing - you could argue that black crime is the reason for these deaths. But the report continues. It's six times more likely to be shot while black in Oklahoma than in Georgia. In fact crime seems to have nothing to do with it. In Buffalo, NY with a population of 260K, 50% percentage of people of color and a violent crime rate of 12 to 1000, there were no police shootings. In Orlando, FL with a population of 260K, 42% percentage of people of color and a violent crime rate of 9 to 1000, 13 people were killed in three years (span of data in both cases, 2013-2016). That's Systemic Racism. So now you know.

4. Police brutality is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to police misdemeanors. Unfortunately, the news don't pick up on the vast array of transgressions done by police because it's not "edgy" enough to keep you watching the news. The ProPublica published the "Walking while Black" which was televised, so go watch that. They give the example of Jacksonville where 55% of the walking tickets go to the 29% of the black population of the city. According to them, "Tickets for some of the less familiar statutes were issued even more disproportionately to blacks. Seventy-eight percent of all tickets written for “walking in the roadway where sidewalks are provided” were issued to blacks. As well, blacks accounted for 68 percent of all recipients of tickets issued for “failing to cross the road at a right angle or shortest route.” Seton Hall Law School Center for Policy & Research has found that in the majority-white municipality of Bloomfield, New Jersey, nearly 80 percent of traffic tickets are issued to African American and Latino drivers. These two cases are indicative of a permeating problem policing minorities in the US. So, either minorities in America do not know how to walk in a city and drive a car, or these situations show SYSTEMIC RACISM.

5. I don't see any mention of what happened in Lafayette Square. Peaceful protesters assembled there were beaten by police before the curfew had started, because the president wanted... to walk across the street and hold a bible in front of St. John's church? So, in effect, police brutality was used for no better reason than Trump wanting to take photos in front of a building. It's a very disturbing silence, I think, considering what happened. So, instead of talking how long it takes for a person to suffocate, maybe you should focus on your rights infringed during the crisis.

Why are the blacks mobilizing as a group? Why not have a more inclusive mass movement?

They are making fun of you, but you have a point. Maybe instead of a more inclusive mass movement, you should have said "working class movement". In fact, even though being white while poor still provides you some slight advantage in the US, having no money basically renders you a second-class citizen. Yes, there's differences and stages within second class citizens, but their lot in life even for the best equipped of them isn't admirable. The coronavirus must have proved to everyone how the poor were simply left to their fate. I'll leave you with a meme to lighten the conversation:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Infidel144]

Cops put you through academy and then put you into the field. They're not exactly the military where they keep training you and training you and training you. You better god damn hope they remember what they got taught to do. And they SURE AS S--T don't teach you how to do a god damn chokehold or choke method of any kind nor do they support it.

Chokeholds and neck restraints are permitted in Minneapolis:
"5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

DEFINITIONS I.
Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)

PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.

The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)
The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)
On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
For life saving purposes, or;
On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)
After Care Guidelines (04/16/12)
After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.
An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject."
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/...cy_5-300_5-300

[PointOfViewGun]

What evidence do you have to show that the system acts differently depending on the racial characteristics of either the officer or the victim? There is a general lack of criminal convictions for police brutality/malpractice, not a lack of criminal convictions in cases where the complainant/victim is African American.

I just did in the very same post that you're responding to.

Now this is just the kind of disinterpretation of data that makes your cause look bad.
The ratio of wrongful convictions is actually very similar to the ratio of actual crime committed by blacks. Which means that they're not wrongfully convicted at higher rate than others. They just commit in total more crimes, and thus are proportionally more often wrongfully convicted.

Which brings me to next problem. Making everything being about race. While it is indisputable that officers used excessive force while arresting Floyd, nobody asked why. Everyone jumped the gun and called it racism. No mention that Floyd had history of armed crime and was under influence of drugs, of which the arresting officers were aware.

That doesn't seem to be so. Black people are not responsible for the same rate crime compared to wrongful convictions. They seem to be twice as likely to be wrongfully convicted. Same goes with killing of unarmed people. I don't see how you justify those numbers.

Cops also knew James Holmes just killed a bunch of people when they arrested him. Did you ask why he was not choked to death during that arrest?

Chokeholds and neck restraints are permitted in Minneapolis:

From your reference:

The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
For life saving purposes, or;
On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)

Did Floyd met those requirements and did the officer do what those regulations deem necessary?

[caratacus]

Why are the blacks mobilising as a group? Why not have a more inclusive mass movement?

A few observations:They are making fun of you, but you have a point. Maybe instead of a more inclusive mass movement, you should have said "working class movement". In fact, even though being white while poor still provides you some slight advantage in the US, having no money basically renders you a second-class citizen. Yes, there's differences and stages within second class citizens, but their lot in life even for the best equipped of them isn't admirable. The coronavirus must have proved to everyone how the poor were simply left to their fate. I'll leave you with a meme to lighten the conversation:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Who are the blacks though? I would lay money on very few of those demonstrating and certainly looting and carrying out criminal damage are black Africans. The majority are African Americans. Amazing for a country labelled deeply racist, that the over 2.1 million African immigrants choose to come to the US. The number of African migrants grew at a rate of almost 50% from 2010 to 2018. This is more than double the growth rate of migration to the US from Asia, South America or the Caribbean. These people are law abiding, educated and work very hard. In fact African female immigrants’ income growth rate has outpaced that of U.S.-born men and women, Michigan State University reported

African Immigrants Doing Well in United States
https://www.courthousenews.com/afric...united-states/

The very success of African immigrants in the US, has created widespread resentment among African Americans. And there is even a movement to classify black Americans as "American Descendants of Slavery"

Who is black in America? Ethnic tensions flare between black Americans and black immigrants.
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news...-20181018.html
"Foreign-born blacks are often perceived by whites and even black Americans as different and 'special' — as harder-working and more productive citizens than their black American counterparts," Greer wrote in her book Black Ethnics: Race, Immigration, and the Pursuit of the American Dream.
It's a phenomenon that academics started noticing decades ago — that immigrants generally are "strivers" who work hard to better their lives.

There has been a black underclass of African Americans for decades which are noticeably separate from all other ethnic groups, including those from Africa. People come to the US and prosper, those defining themselves as African Americans remain an underclass. Look at the events this past few days, its not just about the killing of George Floyd. Black Africans come from a Conservative, deeply family orientated culture. Black American culture which glorifies gangs, drugs and an easy lifestyle, is socially disfunctional. At some point leaders African American leaders (not Obama) need to come out and say what the issues are instead of using racisim as an excuse, which is what you are doing here. There needs to be less gay pride and more black pride being promoted.

[mongrel]

Chokeholds and neck restraints are permitted in Minneapolis:
"5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

DEFINITIONS I.


Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)


Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)


Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)


Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)


PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.


The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)
The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)
On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
For life saving purposes, or;
On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)
After Care Guidelines (04/16/12)
After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.
An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject."
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/...cy_5-300_5-300

I don't think murder is allowed, now matter how you dress it up.


Moving on, there must be something wrong with America when you see this happening, right now.



https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...-police-racism

[Exarch]

American society is broken- has been since its very inception. Any 2 bit sociologist could tell you a state founded on institutional racism and predation on the desperate would be bound to fail, especially since the imported slaves and their descendants could never find a place in this racist and broken society. This 'American Spring' was a long time in coming- and it was what the new Cold War against China was supposed to prevent.

[PointOfViewGun]

The very success of African immigrants in the US, has created widespread resentment among African Americans. And there is even a movement to classify black Americans as "American Descendants of Slavery"

Could that be because a lot of those African immigrants are kids of wealthy families from Africa? Their wealth is a blanket for the racism they could be facing.

[Infidel144]

I don't think murder is allowed, now matter how you dress it up.

That is correct, murder is illegal. Which has nothing to do with what I addressed, the fact that in Minneapolis chokes and neck restraints are permitted.

From your reference:
Did Floyd met those requirements and did the officer do what those regulations deem necessary?

From what I have seen, no. But that is irrelevant to what I addressed which was the assertion that they are not taught or supported.

[Exarch]

Senator from the State that tried to stop black american children from attending school puts forth the argument to send troops into american cities to gun down their own people:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/o...gtype=Homepage

[Gaidin]

NRA accidentally forgets to rise up against the government

An embarrassed National Rifle Association says it totally forgot to do the one thing it has been saying for years it is solely there to do.
“Our whole reason for lobbying for looser gun laws and amassing huge personal arsenals of weapons these past years was so that we could ensure the security of a free state and protect the people from an oppressive government. And then it actually happened, and the whole rising up against a tyrannical government thing just totally slipped our minds, which is a little embarrassing,” a sheepish NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre said.
He said the morale around the NRA has been pretty low. “The guys feel pretty silly. We had our well regulated militia stocked up and ready to go, just waiting for the moment when the Government would turn on its own people. And then the government started shooting protesters and rolling tanks down the street, and we were like ‘guys this is the one we’ve been talking about, let’s go!’. But then something else came up and we forgot to do it. Damnit!”.
Observers were shocked that the NRA had missed their opportunity to defend their country. “I can’t believe it,” one analyst said. “It’s almost as if they weren’t worried about the government at all. It’s as if they were actually just scared of black people”.

I mean, it's satire. But, not by much.

[Cope]

I just did in the very same post that you're responding to.

No you didn't. The sources showed a disparity in outcomes between racial groups (which we all knew about). They presented no empirical evidence that the disparities were caused by police bias (despite the latter source's attempt to repeatedly assert it).

[Exarch]

I've said it before and i'll say it again: America is a white supremacist caste society that routinely murders its black citizens as a demonstration of power and to keep 'the coloureds' in line. Every so often, the weak willed in american society especially the upper caste white privileged classes can't bear the sight of their own ugliness and will join in with the inevitable looting and rapine that occurs whenever a ritual sacrifice of a black male is performed.

Anglo America truly is a fascinating culture.

[Love Mountain]

Of course people who choose to peacefully protest so choose not to loot. That doesn’t validate the false dichotomy you’ve set up to extenuate the looting and violence in cities across the country as an unavoidable “byproduct” of legitimate protest (lol) in contrast to the avoidable “conscious choice by police” to behave violently. It is as transparent as your appeal to ridicule.

There was no appeal to ridicule. Police departments are an organization with a chain of command. Hence why improper conduct is often used as criticism of the organization. Looters do not have a chain of command. Looting and Rioting is seldom planned, it's not even the point of the protests. This is why using looting and rioting as a criticism of the riots themselves is an exercise in virtue signalling.

No you didn't. The sources showed a disparity in outcomes between racial groups (which we all knew about). They presented no empirical evidence that the disparities were caused by police bias (despite the latter source's attempt to repeatedly assert it).

A statistic in the absence of proper context is a useless number, despite your attempts to suggest that disparities are explained by greater prevalence of crime among different racial groups.