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Thread: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

  1. #201

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    "State National Guards can carry out a variety of duties in response to natural disasters and times of crisis, and that can include crowd control. They can also be armed for specific missions but can use their weapons in self-defense, just like all military personnel.


    National Guardsmen are trained in crowd control techniques and use visored helmets, shields, batons -- techniques designed to minimize any escalations in violence."
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/national-g...ry?id=70953206

    https://www.dvidshub.net/image/61186...ntrol-training

    https://kentuckyguard.dodlive.mil/20...aining-a-riot/

    Ohio National Guard Crowd Control Training
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGAlwcL6Ox8


    They were training for a riot. Hundreds of California Army National Guard military police,
    https://www.army.mil/article/178615/...young_visitors

    See also FM 3-19.15

    Oh here:
    Army crowd control training via google:
    https://www.google.com/search?ei=WJL...cv9BXkQ4dUDCAw
    Last edited by Infidel144; June 01, 2020 at 07:02 PM.

  2. #202
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Well it went so well in my country and in China why wouldn’t Trump want to continue the streak.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  3. #203
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    This is what the chief of the National Guard Bureau, Gen. Joseph Lengyel said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Joseph Lengyel
    Guard personnel assigned to these missions are trained, equipped and prepared to assist law enforcement authorities and first responders, said Lengyel. “We plan, train, and prepare for emergency response missions with our local, state, and federal partners...We’re here to help and assist local authorities. Our troops are trained to protect life, preserve property and ensure people’s right to peacefully demonstrate.”
    Source.

  4. #204
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Again did anyone of you read my source? Not referring to the National Guard. Its not hard to click a link.

  5. #205
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/national-g...215000273.html

    Deploying a bunch of soldiers without any kind of police training or riot training will not help the situation.
    You mean the same type of police training exemplified by the Minneapolis police Department. Given the past nights events around the US, which almost led to the White House being stormed, I cannot see it getting any worse. Order needs to be restored. However, Trump really does needs to set up a special commission to investigate police arrest procedures nationwide as a first stage to a wider enquiry. Failure to do so will be perceived as provocative.

    Clarity about the events leading to the death of George Floyd will be made public during the investigation. But it seems very strange to me that a policeman can detain a suspect on the ground in a forced choke hold to the neck. From what I see in movies (if that is anything to go by) Suspects are placed over the bonnets of squad cars and handcuffed to detain them. The guy wasn't resisting arrest, he was a two bit felon and just shouldn't have been held in that position.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Your source starts of with and is addressed as National guard troops.
    In a dramatic escalation of a national crisis, National Guard troops were deployed near the White House Monday evening hours after President Donald Trump said he wanted a military show of force against violent protests gripping the country.

    Repeatedly your source mentions NG.

    Maybe, Vanoi, you need to be more clear in just exactly what you are referring to, Vanoi, instead of pretending people are mind readers.

    It is not that difficult, Vanoi.

    Or maybe it is just as ggg said and you are throwing up a cloud of wub to see what sticks.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    Because Europe is significantly better?
    Yes, by a long way.

    Speaking as an Englishman, our police (while certainly not perfect) are not jackbooted paramilitaries itching for a fight, in fact they're not even armed.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    I have a great deal of experience having lived for a year in Austria, and I can say that racism is deeply pervasive particularly against Africans and Arabs, and there are known cases of brutality among the police towards those racial groups.
    And how many of them were murdered?

    I honestly can't speak for police in the continent, but training in the UK seems to be of a much better standard, and thus death by cop is pretty low.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    The European Union’s labor rights are also extremely exclusive, only really for EU citizens. Non-citizens have hardly any rights and are worked like dogs, and they support the illusory economy of prosperity and equality for the rest.

    Austria is my closest reference point, but we can see the same patterns elsewhere.
    While I agree that every worker should have the same rights, the basic facts are that a European citizen has more rights than his 'Land of the free' living chum. We have workers rights (paid holiday, paid sick leave, right to not be dismissed for no reason etc), and we have free healthcare for all.

    Oh yeah, and furlough leave during the pandemic.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    Why is the National Front a popular and viable movement in France?
    No idea. I'm not really an expert in French politics. Maybe there are a lot of easily led fools?

  8. #208
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Your source starts of with and is addressed as National guard troops.
    In a dramatic escalation of a national crisis, National Guard troops were deployed near the White House Monday evening hours after President Donald Trump said he wanted a military show of force against violent protests gripping the country.

    Repeatedly your source mentions NG.

    Maybe, Vanoi, you need to be more clear in just exactly what you are referring to, Vanoi, instead of pretending people are mind readers.

    It is not that difficult, Vanoi.

    Or maybe it is just as ggg said and you are throwing up a cloud of wub to see what sticks.
    Wow you really didn't read it did you? Cause you missed this part:

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/national-g...215000273.html

    He called on governors to use their National Guard units to "dominate the streets" and said he would deploy the active duty military if governors failed to use the National Guard more forcefully.

    He said he may invoke the 1807 Insurrection Act,which permits a president to deploy military inside the U.S. to deal with civil disorder.
    Active duty military does not mean National Guard. He even references the 1807 Act, which allows a President to send non-NG military to quell insurrection and riots.

    Next time you don't want to look so dumb, actually read my source.

  9. #209

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Wow you really didn't read it did you? Cause you missed this part:

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/national-g...215000273.html



    Active duty military does not mean National Guard. He even references the 1807 Act, which allows a President to send non-NG military to quell insurrection and riots.

    Next time you don't want to look so dumb, actually read my source.
    No, I did read it, and did not miss that part (which I addressed).
    Your source is still literally addressed as National Guard, Vanoi, and still repeatedly mentions National Guard throughout, so again, Vanoi before you throw your little whinging wub fit trying to pretend you were clear on what you were referring to, when you were not, accept some responsibility for your actions, instead of blaming others for your inadequacy.
    Last edited by Infidel144; June 01, 2020 at 07:31 PM.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by caratacus View Post
    You mean the same type of police training exemplified by the Minneapolis police Department. Given the past nights events around the US, which almost led to the White House being stormed, I cannot see it getting any worse. Order needs to be restored. However, Trump really does needs to set up a special commission to investigate police arrest procedures nationwide as a first stage to a wider enquiry. Failure to do so will be perceived as provocative.
    And the same type of police training exemplified by Louisville where they turn off their body cameras before shooting a man during a protest. The mayor fired the police chief over that hilariously piss poor training policy.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/us/lo...ead/index.html

    Not only did LMPD have their *cough* sarcasm *cough*Most Exemplary Done Raid Ever adding to this s--t storm, but they can't even control themselves during a protest. This is...so sad it's to the point of tragic comedy.
    Last edited by Gaidin; June 01, 2020 at 07:32 PM.
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  11. #211
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    No, I did read it, and did not miss that part.
    It is still literally addressed as National Guard, Vanoi, and still repeatedly mentions National Guard throughout, so again, Vanoi before you throw your little whinging wub fit trying to pretend you were clear on what you were referring to, when you were not, accept some responsibility for your actions, instead of blaming others for your inadequacy.
    Active Duty Military is not the National Guard. It says directly in that quote that if governors did not use the National Guard more forcefully he would send in Active Duty Military. He again references the 1807 Act, which allows a President to send non-NG military to quell riots.

    Just admit you didn't read .

    https://www.thebalancecareers.com/active-duty-3332036
    The Department of Defense (which is the agency that oversees every branch of the U.S. military) definition of active duty in the U.S. military is pretty straightforward. Active duty refers to full-time duty in the active military, including members of the Reserve Components on full-time training duty. It does not include full-time National Guard duty.
    Last edited by Vanoi; June 01, 2020 at 07:36 PM.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Trump doesn't even give a damn about the protesters much less what they're protesting about. If he want's a few dozen Kent States that's frankly on him.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Active Duty Military is not the National Guard. It says directly in that quote that if governors did not use the National Guard more forcefully he would send in Active Duty Military. He again references the 1807 Act, which allows a President to send non-NG military to quell riots.

    Just admit you didn't read .
    And as ggg... noted, Vanoi, instead of just saying 'oops I could have been more clear in what I was referring to' throws up wub to try and hide his inadequacy, and perhaps to try and get the posts deleted to cover for himself...

    (Others, not Vanoi, should note that I actually addressed that part too, re the clarification which was made while I was posting.)

  14. #214
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    And as ggg... noted, Vanoi, instead of just saying 'oops I could have been more clear in what I was referring to' throws up wub to try and hide his inadequacy, and perhaps to try and get the posts deleted to cover for himself...

    (Others, not Vanoi, should note that I actually addressed that part to, re the clarification which was made while I was posting.)
    I edited my post for you to further clarify my point.

    If you and the others can't properly read a source thats your problem. Its pretty obvious in the source Trump is talking about more than just the National Guard. Those quotes are blatant. Don't admit it though. I know you don't like to read sources anyways.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by caratacus View Post
    Clarity about the events leading to the death of George Floyd will be made public during the investigation. But it seems very strange to me that a policeman can detain a suspect on the ground in a forced choke hold to the neck. From what I see in movies (if that is anything to go by) Suspects are placed over the bonnets of squad cars and handcuffed to detain them. The guy wasn't resisting arrest, he was a two bit felon and just shouldn't have been held in that position.
    I should've noted regarding what the store called the police for, how the police behaved, and all the fallout. The store has responded both with the family, and publicly. I'll post their post as images. There's apparently a law in MN that their suspicions were to be required to be reported to LEOs, but, after all that happened...well...



    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  16. #216

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    The historical context is amazing.





    Apparently they should only protest ways the majority want them to. That way they can be ignored.
    Using a study that is almost 60 years old does not peove your point, just the opposite.if you can't find a more.current and more relevant study. You.might has well reference.a.study from 1861, it.is about as relevant as.one.from.60 years ago.

  17. #217

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Using a study that is almost 60 years old does not peove your point, just the opposite.if you can't find a more.current and more relevant study. You.might has well reference.a.study from 1861, it.is about as relevant as.one.from.60 years ago.
    If you can't spot the point that most people think protests hurt until hindsight is 20/20 then you're really not familiar with how this works.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  18. #218

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    I edited my post for you to further clarify my point.
    Again, for others, not Vanoi, note that this was addressed after he initially clarified what he was referring to, Vanoi's initial clarification was made while I was making my initial post.

    If you and the others can't properly read a source thats your problem. Its pretty obvious in the source Trump is talking about more than just the National Guard. Those quotes are blatant. Don't admit it though. I know you don't like to read sources anyways.
    more wub from Vanoi to continue to try and hide the fact that he was not clear in his initial post as to what he was referring to.

  19. #219
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Again, for others, not Vanoi, note that this was addressed after he initially clarified it, Vanoi's initial clarification was made while I was making my initial post.


    more wub from Vanoi to continue to try and hide the fact that he was not clear in his initial post as to what he was referring to.
    The article was clear. Gaidan didn't seem to have a problem. If you can't read it, thats your fault. We have established you were wrong though right? That Trump was referring to more than just the NG?

  20. #220
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    And as ggg... noted, Vanoi, instead of just saying 'oops I could have been more clear in what I was referring to' throws up wub to try and hide his inadequacy, and perhaps to try and get the posts deleted to cover for himself...

    (Others, not Vanoi, should note that I actually addressed that part too, re the clarification which was made while I was posting.)
    It's not worth arguing over. The use of the Insurrection Act is probably just posturing by Trump. Even so - and without wanting to look into it too deeply - it is doubtlessly the case that there are elements of the military outside the NG which are trained in crowd/riot control. As the civil disturbance field manual you referenced earlier makes clear, managing unrest is a regular task for US forces deployed overseas, as is the training of local law enforcement outfits.

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