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Thread: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

  1. #1341
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Everything you say and where it is sourced from is obvious.
    Sigh. I'm not alt-right. I'm not a self-hating Jew who believes I should be killed because whites are superior or something, I'm a Conservative Libertarian. You can drop the implication. Pointing out that you lied about the definition of systemic racism is not alt-right.


  2. #1342
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Remember when some experts predicted, in a rather controversial manner, that the protests will harm the Democrats in the upcoming elections? Well, according to a poll launched by Avalanche, an absolute majority is supportive of the protests. The numbers are so unfavourable against the ''law and order'' stance of the White House that the protests are viewed positively not only among Democrats, but also among undecided voters and even moderate Trump fans (72% and 59% respectively). However, to be just with Omar Wasow, the reason for the collapse of the incumbent president's popularity is not only the concern of the American society for social issues, like income inequality or police brutality, but also Donald Trump's amateurish response.

    One quarter of the Trump-leaning participants in the survey endorsed the protests following the Lafayette Square affair, when the administration ordered the law enforcement forces to violently disperse a peaceful gathering, so that Donald Trump could attend a photo opportunity at Saint John's church. Consequently, I have the suspicion the citizenry is generally more worried about the constitutionally protected freedom of assembly than the revisionism of the 1619 project or egg yolk flowing on top of the bronze wig of Thomas Jefferson. Will the Founding Fathers spin in their graves?
    Its why the conservatives and Republicans in general have been trying to control the narrative. They keep whining about statues or the 1619 project all to distract from the real issues at hand. Like the coronavirus which conservatives have down played constantly to the George Floyd protests where conservatives want you to focus on riots and statues instead of the problem.of policing and police brutality in the US.

  3. #1343

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Define what would make systemic racism real. I didn’t lie. Signs of systemic racism would be overpolicing etc. You posted a source whose information you don’t accept.

    Conservative Libertarian - define
    So you are for decriminalizing drugs. Against moralizing legislation.
    Last edited by alhoon; August 02, 2020 at 05:27 AM. Reason: not in good faith parts removed
    fallen angel

  4. #1344
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Define what would make systemic racism real. I didn’t lie. Signs of systemic racism would be overpolicing etc. You posted a source whose information you don’t accept. We both know you understood why the quotes were identical and are just playing at simpleton to troll.
    What information did I not accept? Yes, overpolicing would mean a higher number of suspects who are minorities. I agree. But overpolicing doesn't means a higher number of perpetrators who are minorities.
    As for definition, you were given one on the other thread already, so I'll just repeat it:
    Quote Originally Posted by sar1n
    It's not a redneck waving a confederate flag or a shopkeeper frowning on black customers. It means laws, government policies, policies and institutions designed specifically to benefit one race over another.


    Conservative Libertarian - define
    So you are for decriminalizing drugs. Against moralizing legislation. I find asking self identifying Libs views on Ruwart reveals a lot about whether they are Libertarian or Conservative masquerading.
    Don't know who Ruwart is, I'm not American.
    I'm for small government, free market, egalitarianism and believe that government should stay out of our lives as much as possible. Where I mostly differ from the Libertarian mainstream is on foreign policy, but that's not really the topic here.


  5. #1345

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    So you must not be a fan of the Israeli government? Would you say there is systemic racism towards Palestinians in Israel? Unlike the US in Israeli it is written into laws so significantly easier to prove.
    fallen angel

  6. #1346
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    So you must not be a fan of the Israeli government? Would you say there is systemic racism towards Palestinians in Israel? Unlike the US in Israeli it is written into laws so significantly easier to prove.
    No to both questions, but this is getting really quite off-topic for this thread. There's an Israel thread a page or two back (made by me) you can ask me those questions on.


  7. #1347

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Overpolicing means more blacks are Caught for murders. You are right about the fbi data.
    The reason more blacks are caught is because they commit more crime, period. If the FBI statistics were due to overpolicing, blacks would represent a major.percentage of the murders of whites as well as blacks, but that is not the case - the vast majority of whites are killed by whites, even greater majority of blacks are murdered by blacks. Overpolicing would have large percentage of of whites killed by blacks, but that is not the case of the FBI statistics.

    Furthermore, overpolicing would effect only reported makeup of the murderers, not that of the victims. Half the murder victims are black. This statistics are not the result of overpolicing. Possibe murders are required to be reported hospitals, morticians, etc. Your anti-logic reasoning would require that murders of blacks are reported at 5 times the murders of whites.ans thatnthe vast majority or the murders of white are not reported, and only 20% of the murders of whites.are reported, q total absurd claim of yours.

    In addition, racial identity of the murderer corresponds to the reported racial identity of the murderers - eyewitness reports, video footage, etc., show half the murderers are black, consistent with the FBI statistics.

    Also, black communities have much higher murder rates, consistent with the FBI data and inconsistent with the claim of overpolicing. The murder rates of black communities should not be any higher than those of white communiies if overpolicing was the cause of higher number of black murderers being reported in the figures, but that is not the case. People tend to murder people mosly of their own community, because hst is who they most frequently come in contact with. A black gang is mostly going to come in comtact with over black gangs, and victims of that blackgang violence will be other black gang members. The statistics show young black males are the majority of black murder victims and they are murdered by other young black males. The claim that the murder statitics are merely the reault of overpolicy is untrue, bigoted and even racist.
    .


    Thank you for admitting you don't believe your own sources.
    I do believe my own sources, I spefifically said, so a lie by you to say otherwise. When they present facts, I.believe them. However when they present interpretation of those facts, I might or might not agree.with them - unlike you, I think for myself. When it comes to opinion, as opposed to facts, it is a matter of.agreement or disagreement, not belief. People can reafh different conclusions with the same facts.

    My sources don't disprove me, they show I am right and you are wrong. You are wrong because you are operating an ideological belief that denies facts or assigns a meaning to facts so they support you ideological belief, no matter how absurd or contrary to logic, like a Flat Earther who insist pictures from space showing the earth is round really proves it is flat. No amount of data will convince you, since you believe the earth is flat, so any data presented shows the earth is flat or is a lie. You are a true progressive, whose religious belief is all.due to racism regardless of the real facts.


    To sum up, your assertion of overpolicing as thr cause of blacks being shown as being the majority of murderers is show to be wrong and an idiotic claims because:

    1. It does not account fact that blacks are also being show to be half the murder victims as well

    2. Overpolicing should result in blacks being a major.percentage of the murderers of whites, but that is not what the statistics show

    3. Black communities murder rates should be no higher than white communities if the highet number of blacks murderers were simply due ro overpolicing, but that is not what the staistics show.

    4. Murders should only be reported due to policing, but thst is not true. Murders are reported TO the police, not BY the police as your idiotic logic requires. A number of non police persons, such doctors, are required report potential murders. If you claim the police are fudging the figures on murders, it makes a liwr, since you already have said you accepted my source and that would contradict what you already said.

    5. The statistic of the racial identity of the murders matched the reported racial identity of thr murderers (eyewitnesses, video footage, etc.)

    6. The murder solve rate should be signicantly higher in heavily black cities than white communiies for overpolicing, but the opposite is true - murder solve rates are lower, indicating there is underpolicing of blacks with regard to blacks.


    PS - Murders of white more likely to be solved than those of blacks. Since the murders of whites are given to be overwhelmingly white murderers, t poo he higher rate of solving of murders by whites is not due to overpolicing of blacks. It might imply rather the overpolicing of whites. https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/1...tims-are-black. P

    Now the.poor record to solve black murders might have a racial factor to it, but that does not change that blacks.commit far more murders than their population. That the reason blacks commit murders in the first place could be the result of racism, is a possibiliy but not an indisputable fact. That more.blafks are convicted and jailed for murder is not racist, or due to bias policing, but the fact that blacks are committing more murders. Sending a person to jail for.committing murder is not racist.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; August 02, 2020 at 08:46 AM. Reason: Personal.

  8. #1348
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    In fact, the protests are so popular that they’re now supported by majorities of Democrats and Republicans. But this bipartisan support masks some of the enormous differences that still exist between the two parties on issues of race and discrimination.

    For starters, there’s a pretty big gap in just how strongly Democrats and Republicans back the protests. In last week’s Economist/YouGov poll, for instance, 73 percent of Democrats said they strongly approve of the nonviolent protests, compared with just 27 percent of Republicans. And according to the most recent Yahoo News/YouGov poll, Democrats and Republicans are also fairly split on how peaceful the protests have been, how long they should last and what’s driving them. In that poll, Democrats were 40 points more likely than Republicans to say that the protests have been mostly peaceful and three-quarters of Republicans said they wanted the protests to stop now, compared to less than one-quarter of Democrats. Republicans were also 44 points more likely than Democrats to say the protests were primarily motivated by long-standing biases against the police, whereas most Democrats said the protests were motivated by a genuine desire to hold police accountable.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...re-protesting/
    Overall, questions that seemed to emphasize how police departments would be affected found less support. Reuters/Ipsos respondents who were familiar with “proposals to completely dismantle police departments and give more financial support to address homelessness, mental health, and domestic violence” said they opposed those proposals, 58 percent to 39 percent. That was virtually identical to the way respondents broke down in the pollster’s question about the “‘defund the police’ movement.” And finally, per ABC News/Ipsos, 39 percent supported and 60 percent opposed “reducing the budget of the police department in your community, even if that means fewer police officers, if the money is shifted to programs related to mental health, housing, and education.” That made the specific proposal slightly more popular than “the movement to ‘defund the police’” (34 percent support vs. 64 percent opposition), but the difference was well within the pollster’s margin of error.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...slogan-itself/
    It doesn’t appear attitudes are changing significantly since early June:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    The public appears split on the Trump Admin’s decision to dispatch federal agents over the objections of some mayors:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    There’s also evidence the majority of the protestors are groups unique from the population overall.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    With about half of the public regarding the protests as mostly or partly violent riots, it remains to be seen what can be deduced from the 73% support for non-violent protests. 69% of the public indicated violent protest is never justified, and 74% indicated peaceful protests would lose their support if they became violent.

    The public is evenly split on whether or not protests should continue. 55% say police have been mostly non-violent in response. Versus police, the majority said protestors had been more violent, 43-30%. 92% agree at least some protestors have broken the law, with 42% saying many have. This suggests there may be more to the broad disapproval of police response than one might assume. 77% believe voting in large numbers to be the most effective way of advancing the interests of the African American community, versus 23% who preferred street protests.
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/86ijosd7..._crosstabs.pdf

    A caveat to the preference for voting over protest could be the overwhelming public consensus that protests will spread the virus.

  9. #1349

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    All I claim is Mayors are not responsible for the training police receive as you claim. Never heard the blaming US president for police acts thing. Only person in this thread I have seen saying something resembling it is you either to claim Trump shouldn’t be blamed for police actions (and besides the feds he ordered into cities he isn’t) or paradoxically to claim Obama should be blamed.

    You made the claim Mayors are responsible for the training of the police force. Not for me to prove a negative as you have often insisted. Back your claim. Or own the wrong. I appreciate you taking my suggestion for less chatty posts. I suspect everyone is grateful.
    fallen angel

  10. #1350

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    All I claim is Mayors are not responsible for the training police receive as you claim.
    If the mayor can fire the police chief, then mayors are repsonisble police training - if the police chief does not do a proper job of training police, the mayor has responsibility of replacing the police chief with one who does properly train his policemen. That makes mayor ultimatwly responsible, and me correct and you wrong. Sure, the.mayor doesn't conduct the trainig, but mayors do have the.ultimate responsibility tomsed it is done right. If not, they can replace they can replace thr police chief with one who will ensure officers are properly trained.

    Never heard the blaming US president for police acts thing. Only person in this thread I have seen saying something resembling it is you either to claim Trump shouldn't be blamed for police actions (and besides the feds he ordered into cities he isn`t) or paradoxically to claim Obama should be blamed.
    Then you admit that Trump is not responsible for George Floyd's death or all rhe BLM protest. Ok.

    You made the claim Mayors are responsible for the training of the police force. Not for me to prove a negative as you have often insisted. Back your claim. Or own the wrong. I appreciate you taking my suggestion for less chatty posts. I suspect everyone is grateful.

    You made a claim, so it is up to you to back up the claim, so stop avoiding proof of what you said.

    Can mayor replace police chiefs, yes or no? Is not the police chief responsible for the training of police.in his department, yes or no?

    As.long as the mayor can replace the polce chief, the mayor is responsible for local police trainimg. You will agree, that local government is responsible for the behaviour of local police, not the national.government?
    Last edited by Common Soldier; August 02, 2020 at 09:41 AM.

  11. #1351

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Detroit, which has had a history if violence, has had peaceful BLM protest. The black police chief explains why:

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/detroi...t-retreat-here

    Of.course, only Fox is reporting this turn of events, since peaceful Detroit BLM protest being achieved because the Detroit police didn't back down and let matters get out of control is not thr narrative CNN and the rest of the mainstream media and the progressives want to promote, so.it is ignored.

    How come only Fox is reporting this story?
    Last edited by Common Soldier; August 02, 2020 at 03:15 AM.

  12. #1352
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    It does make me a feel a little optimistic to see there are still cities that stand up to these hoodlums and hooligans.

    Is it because detroit police and politicians have experience of violence? Are the Portland and Seattle etc Mayors so sheltered that they don’t care about violent mobs making our streets less safe? (I say our in the sense that BLM protests are happening in my country too).
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  13. #1353
    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    "Hoodlums and hooligans" Ok 1950s dad


    Out of curiosity... I wonder if it has anything to do with the difference in demographic breakdowns between say Portland and Detroit?


    Certainly, there is a police response angle to look at the protests. A police overreaction is likely to lead to more violent interactions. From what I've seen of BLM protests around the world, there is definitely a relationship between police approach and any pushback to that. The same has been true of the anti-shutdown protests. From what I've seen, police shooting teargas or using kettling type techniques tends to give carte blanche to those minority elements in the crowd who are looking to make trouble.

    But I am also curious as to whether a majority white BLM crowd might behave differently to a majority black crowd. Given the different skin in the game...
    Last edited by antaeus; August 02, 2020 at 07:15 AM. Reason: (so to speak)
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  14. #1354

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Is it because detroit police and politicians have experience of violence? Are the Portland and Seattle etc Mayors so sheltered that they don’t care about violent mobs making our streets less safe? (I say our in the sense that BLM protests are happening in my country too).
    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Out of curiosity... I wonder if it has anything to do with the difference in demographic breakdowns between say Portland and Detroit?
    I assume so...

    Detroit: 79% black, 10% white
    Seattle: 7% black, 64% white
    Portland: 5% black, 70% white
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  15. #1355
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Today we had the “FF Force” marching through Brixton, all clad in black body armour uniforms.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ily-Force.html

    Under UK law, wearing political uniforms such as this is illegal, and this law is enforced by police. https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/britain-fi...iforms-1544188

    Don’t expect the police to treat BLM protestors fairly though.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  16. #1356

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    BLM Protesters peacefully made some reasonable requests of business owners in Louisville, such as:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Adequately represent the Black population of Louisville by having a minimum of 23% Black staff;
    Purchase a minimum of 23% inventory from Black retailers or make a recurring monthly donation of 1.5% of net sales to Black Lives Matter organization;
    Require diversity and inclusion training for all staff members on a bi-annual basis;
    And display a visible sign that increases awareness and shows support for the reparations movement.
    Eliminate dress codes.

    Failure to accede to the reasonable request may result in "Social Media Blasts", "Public Boycotts", "Protests" and "Invasive Reclamation".
    https://www.scribd.com/document/4711...nds#from_embed
    While some businesses acceded, other racist business owners were not as willing to go along with marxis... entirely reasonable BLM protesters. For example the obviously unreasonable and racist Cubans, who left the communist paradise of Cuba, did not want to bend the knee, unlike Democrat mayors and governors:

    "Fernando Martinez, a partner of the Olé Restaurant Group, was one of dozens of business owners in the downtown Louisville district who recently received a letter from protesters laying out demands that aim to improve diversity in the area, which is known for its locally-owned shops and restaurants.
    Martinez has publicly denounced the demands on Facebook, calling them "mafia tactics" used to intimidate business owners. And on Thursday, a small group of protesters confronted him outside his newest restaurant, La Bodeguita de Mima, on East Market Street.
    "There comes a time in life that you have to make a stand and you have to really prove your convictions and what you believe in," Martinez wrote in his Facebook post. "... All good people need to denounce this. How can you justified (sic) injustice with more injustice?""

    The communaz... I mean the peaceful and reasonable BLM protesters emphasized their reasonable and peaceful requests by presenting "Martinez with the list of demands and said he "better put the letter on the door so your business is not f---d with.""
    After seeing the post by the capitalist pi... er... I mean Martinez, the peaceful protesters returned and reasonably "one protester smashed a flower pot outside the business, while the rest spoke with Martinez and other employees about why the demands are needed."
    But the Cubans are, perhaps, not as fond of marxist communazis as they should be, so:
    "Members of Louisville's Cuban community plan to gather Sunday in support of a NuLu restaurant owner who says he was threatened by Black Lives Matter protesters during a recent demonstration."
    https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ma/5562669002/
    Last edited by Infidel144; August 02, 2020 at 05:51 PM.

  17. #1357

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    You made a claim, so it is up to you to back up the claim, so stop avoiding proof of what you said.
    Let’s focus on this. You repeatedly state I made a claim about Mayors not being responsible for police training first. I counter that you made the claim Mayors were responsible for police training first and I simply responded.

    Let’s both agree whoever is wrong about this timeline of events will admit their fault.


    If it’s me who is wrong about the timeline I will immediately admit my fault because that is who I am.

    Who are you?
    fallen angel

  18. #1358

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Post 1311

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Is there the systemic racism innthr police that you assert? Blacks commit half the murders in thr US and more than half the robberies too https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...s-commit-crime Therefore, blacks are more likely to come in conflict with the police, and the overpresentation of blacks in being killed by police is.merely reflective of the fact that blacks commit crimes that will potentially bring them into violent conftontation with the police.

    Black officers are just as likely to kill blacks as white officers, which disputes.the claim racism is involved https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...ore-shootings/ https://psmag.com/social-justice/bla...black-suspects less than 1% of thr blacks were unarmed that were killed by police. The higher rate of black deaths by police is simply due to higher rate of violence and crime by blacks. Nt



    The prezident is not responsible for the.training and conduct of local police, the mayor is, so shouldn't the mayor be the one we hold accountable? And if the media and the had had done reforms after unarmed white Justine Diamond was gunned down in her pajamas instead of being ignored because was white, perhaps Floyd would still be alive. Makes you think.

    More blacks were killed yearly by police under Obama than Trump In 2015 258 blacks were killed by police https://www.ibtimes.com/police-shoot...-races-2421634 while Trumps highest year so far has been only 235 blacks killed https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/ By your own standard, Obama stands more condemned than Trump, since under hia watxh more blacks were being killed and he had twice the time to fix the problem. So shouldn't you be condemning Obama even more than a Trump?

    More blacks kill police than police kill blacks, and police homicides of whites (12%) is more.than twice the percemtage of.police homicides of blacks (4%) https://www.dailywire.com/news/5-sta...-aaron-bandler It should make you think, but I doubt it will, since run counter to your beliefs. Do you have any facts at all to give relevant to the issue? So far younhave presented none, qnd your claims I have readily countered wirh real facts.
    fallen angel

  19. #1359

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Portland police record highest number of death investigations in single month in more than three decades
    https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/202...e-decades.html
    The Police Chief "...noted that the bureau was forced to cut its Gun Violence Reduction Team at the direction of the City Council. The 34-member team was disbanded July 1 as a result of budget cuts to police units that have targeted a disproportionate number of black people in traffic stops."

  20. #1360
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    New police bodycam footage,

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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