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Thread: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

  1. #1381
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Asphyxiation is not necessarily the same thing as strangulation. See my original post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    A prima facie viewing of George Floyd's death justified Chauvin's arrest. I had speculated that the cause of death was asphyxiation caused by the pressure being exerted on the victim's neck, though the preliminary results of the initial autopsy suggests that this was not the case. Nevertheless, as it is doubtlessly the case that the medical specifics will be hotly contested moving forward (the family have already sought an independent examination), these first findings should be viewed with all due scepticism.

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It seems pretty sickening and inhuman to blame a guy for choking to death while being knelt on, as if its his responsibility to be fit enough to survive assault. The video pretty clearly shows he was informing the officers he was in distress and it was ignored. The fact the guy may bhave had some illness does not excuse his strangulation.
    What is this fiction you speak of, what storybooks can I find it in?

    If the police need to arrest you, they arrest you. You don’t get to say no, resist, or otherwise try to escape.

    What should they have done differently? Is it their fault their department still allowed neck restraints? Did the neck restraint cause Floyd’s death?
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  3. #1383
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    What is this fiction you speak of, what storybooks can I find it in?
    Pretty bold response but I will be gentle with you (wouldn't want to trigger you or anything). George Floyd died after a cop knelt on his neck. Given he's been charged with murder (or whatever the US version of the crime is) I'd say there's a prima facie case that that's what happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    If the police need to arrest you, they arrest you.
    ..and if they want to compress your neck until you die, I guess you die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    You don’t get to say no, resist, or otherwise try to escape.
    ...or even keep breathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    What should they have done differently?
    Not killed him maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Is it their fault their department still allowed neck restraints?
    The Nuremburg defence? Holy crap your post is as weak as Trump's downhill walking game.

    BTW what a lovely euphemism for killing someone by kneeling on their neck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Did the neck restraint cause Floyd’s death?
    Is your argument Floyd is still alive? I have a hard time seeing this post as anything other than a blatant bit of worthless trolling.
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Pretty bold response but I will be gentle with you (wouldn't want to trigger you or anything). George Floyd died after a cop knelt on his neck. Given he's been charged with murder (or whatever the US version of the crime is) I'd say there's a prima facie case that that's what happened.



    ..and if they want to compress your neck until you die, I guess you die?



    ...or even keep breathing?



    Not killed him maybe?



    The Nuremburg defence? Holy crap your post is as weak as Trump's downhill walking game.

    BTW what a lovely euphemism for killing someone by kneeling on their neck.



    Is your argument Floyd is still alive? I have a hard time seeing this post as anything other than a blatant bit of worthless trolling.
    In order for Floyd to have been choked, assaulted, and strangled as you claim, you would need some evidence to back that up.

    On the other hand, we have two autopsies, one showing death due to cardiopulmonary arrest and one to asphyxiation.

    In my opinion, it his not clear beyond doubt that the police are at fault for his death.
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  5. #1385
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Aexodus,

    Do you think that a police officer being unable to recognise that a suspect is showing a fatal level of distress points to a problem with that officer's technique?

    (yes/no question, I am not asking for further elaboration)
    Last edited by antaeus; August 06, 2020 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Bear with me... Just looking to establish some common ground, as the debate here is pointless otherwise
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Aexodus,

    Do you think that a police officer being unable to recognise that a suspect is showing a fatal level of distress points to a problem with that officer's technique?

    (yes/no question, I am not asking for further elaboration)
    Not in this case.

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    There was no need to put a knee on the man's neck for such a long period of time especially when Floyd was already restrained. Thats bad police technique alone.

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Yes it is, but the knee thing had nothing to do with racism. The tape shows that the protests are immoral.
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Yes it is, but the knee thing had nothing to do with racism. The tape shows that the protests are immoral.
    Immoral? You do realize they are protesting more than just George Floyd's death right? The protests are reactions to the deaths of people like George or Brenna Taylor. This issue goes all the way back to Eric Garner who died in a police chokehold in 2015. This ain't the first black man to die in police custody.

  10. #1390

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Are we back to blaming the victim for not being healthy enough to not be strangled for 8 minutes? Thought we got past that months ago.
    This. It's disgusting that this is being discussed.
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Aexodus,

    Do you think that a police officer being unable to recognise that a suspect is showing a fatal level of distress points to a problem with that officer's technique?

    (yes/no question, I am not asking for further elaboration)
    A fatal level of distress? I’m sure he’s held down lots of suspects before who have had no problem. It’s likely the officer believed Floyd was going to start struggling again if he let go of him.

    Was it distress that killed him? How would anyone at the scene know that Floyd had a fatal level of distress, police or bystander?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Immoral? You do realize they are protesting more than just George Floyd's death right? The protests are reactions to the deaths of people like George or Brenna Taylor. This issue goes all the way back to Eric Garner who died in a police chokehold in 2015. This ain't the first black man to die in police custody.
    Then why all the tributes for George Floyd in ‘I can’t breathe’, murals, etc.

    Black people are not systemically killed by police in the US, so that doesn’t work either.
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  12. #1392
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Then why all the tributes for George Floyd in ‘I can’t breathe’, murals, etc.
    I can't breathe comes Eric Garner who died in a police chokehold in 2015.
    Black people are not systemically killed by police in the US, so that doesn’t work either.
    Statistics show black people do die more often in police encounters in proportion to their population.

  13. #1393
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    That is a bold faced misrepresentation of the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Immoral? You do realize they are protesting more than just George Floyd's death right? The protests are reactions to the deaths of people like George or Brenna Taylor. This issue goes all the way back to Eric Garner who died in a police chokehold in 2015. This ain't the first black man to die in police custody.
    The George Floyd murals, George Floyd vigils and stuff like this disproves your statement quite utterly.
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    That is a bold faced misrepresentation of the truth.



    The George Floyd murals, George Floyd vigils and stuff like this disproves your statement quite utterly.
    https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2020/...ryland-latest/

    There's a mural to Brenna Taylor.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; August 09, 2020 at 01:03 AM. Reason: Rude part removed

  15. #1395
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    I found this comment by Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist, interesting. (She wasn't involved in the death investigation, she's simply providing commentary as someone with professional knowledge of autopsies.)

    She wrote that there are problems with a second autopsy (in this situation, the second one was done by Michael Baden for George Floyd's family), as the the first autopsy would have damaged the body and some body parts would normally be removed in the first autopsy so they wouldn't have been available for Baden to examine.

    She took into account the press release from the county medical examiner which said that, while Floyd's heart condition and intoxication were "significant conditions", the manner of death was reported as "homicide". She concluded that:

    The death certificate's "other significant conditions" -- Floyd's natural heart disease and the presence of drugs of abuse in his tested blood -- do not excuse the officers, nor should they cause anyone to blame the victim. They are there on the death certificate because those findings, in the opinion of the medical examiner, would have made his death more likely. They are not the cause of death. The cause of death is police restraint.

  16. #1396
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    I found this comment by Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist, interesting. (She wasn't involved in the death investigation, she's simply providing commentary as someone with professional knowledge of autopsies.)

    She wrote that there are problems with a second autopsy (in this situation, the second one was done by Michael Baden for George Floyd's family), as the the first autopsy would have damaged the body and some body parts would normally be removed in the first autopsy so they wouldn't have been available for Baden to examine.

    She took into account the press release from the county medical examiner which said that, while Floyd's heart condition and intoxication were "significant conditions", the manner of death was reported as "homicide". She concluded that:
    A pathologist is no more qualified than anyone else to determine who should be "excused" or "blamed" in a criminal trial. The question for the court is whether the subdual was unlawful, and if so, whether it meets the standards of Murder in the Second Degree and/or Manslaughter in the Second Degree. Based on the evidence we have seen so far, I expect that the murder charge will be dismissed.

    Either way, no evidence of racial malice on the part of the officers has been presented.

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    And?
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; August 09, 2020 at 01:04 AM. Reason: For continuity
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    And?
    https://www.npr.org/2020/08/05/89923...rs-in-u-s-fade

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    In order for Floyd to have been choked, assaulted, and strangled as you claim, you would need some evidence to back that up.

    On the other hand, we have two autopsies, one showing death due to cardiopulmonary arrest and one to asphyxiation.

    In my opinion, it his not clear beyond doubt that the police are at fault for his death.
    This is a blatant troll post, you know the difference between asphyxia and cardiopulmonary arrest? One means you stop breathing and the other means...you stopped breathing.

    I have to say the heartless troll posts on this subject is pretty offensive. The guy was alive, he got knelt on, he died, and the cop that knelt on him took his time letting people help.
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    This. It's disgusting that this is being discussed.
    To clarify, in your learned, medical, political, and logical opinion, the presence of lethal levels of fentanyl, the presence of cocaine, and the presence of methamphetamine in the toxicology report contributed less to the cause of death than whatever the cop did.

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