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Thread: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

  1. #1
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    To sum up, on May 25, George Floyd was arrested in Minneapolis by four police officers. While being restrained, one of the officers pressed Floyd's neck with his knee, despite Floyd already being handcuffed, offering no visible resistance and complaining about the pain. In fact, police officer insisted on not relieving Floyd, even after the latter lost his consciousness. Floyd eventually died and the official autopsy indicated that his death was partly the result of the violent restraint, among other factors. His arrest, however, was recorded by bystanders and the video footage depicting the unnecessarily harsh conditions of Floyd's arrest sparked rather unsurprisingly a huge controversy. Riots erupted in several American cities, where several instances of arson, looting, vandalism and even fatal shootings were reported. The four implicated officers were fired, while Derek Chauvin, the one having his knee on Floyd's neck, was arrested and charged for murder and manslaughter. Regarding political reactions, the incident has been condemned by a few current or former state leaders, some of them with a bit of a shady history on the issue of state oppression, but most of the attention was focused on Donald Trump's promise to decisively restore order, which was then marked by Twitter as an incitement to violence.

    In my opinion, the affair is more the result of the incompetence, under-funding and lack of training or transparency of the police force than a symptom of racism, although the second possibility cannot be excluded, until more information becomes available. Bullies like Chauvin have no place in any position of authority and it's utterly embarrassing for the Minneapolis department to be so incapable of adequately verifying of whether its members fulfill the most elementary criteria or not. On the other hand, I remain optimist that the situation will slowly, but gradually improve, as the society becomes more sensitive to these issues. Riots are unacceptable and, even from a cynical perspective, probably damaging to the cause, at least in the short term, but massive protests, together with advances in technology, certainly contribute to prevent several similar cases of arbitrary violence from occurring in the future. For example, it's good to see that Chauvin has already been ousted and arrested, Daniel Pantaleo, a New York police officer also blamed for the death of an arrested suspect under almost identical circumstances, was fired only five years after the event.

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    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    I think we'll see more riots in the future. This current situation will get better, but all its gonna take another incident like this and there will be riots again.

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    A prima facie viewing of George Floyd's death justified Chauvin's arrest. I had speculated that the cause of death was asphyxiation caused by the pressure being exerted on the victim's neck, though the preliminary results of the initial autopsy suggests that this was not the case. Nevertheless, as it is doubtlessly the case that the medical specifics will be hotly contested moving forward (the family have already sought an independent examination), these first findings should be viewed with all due scepticism.

    As far as the protests are concerned, I fully support the right of all people to exercise their 1A rights - particularly regarding instances of state tyranny. Violence and the destruction of innocent people's property, however, are neither acceptable nor helpful. The US's enemies are already circling, hoping to exploit Floyd's death to encourage further instability.

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    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms
    "When I saw the murder of George Floyd, I hurt like a mother would hurt. And yesterday, when I heard there were rumors about violent protests in Atlanta, I did what a mother would do, I called my son and I said 'Where are you?' I said, 'I cannot protect you and black boys shouldn't be out today'. So you not going to out concern me and out care about where we are in America. So what I see happening in the streets of Atlanta is not Atlanta. This is not a protest. This is not in the spirit of Martin Luther King Jr. This is chaos. A protest has purpose.”

    “If you want change America, go and register to vote. Show up at the polls on June 9. Do it in Novermber. That is the change we need in this country. You are disgracing our city. You are disgracing the life of George Floyd and every other person who has been killed in this country. We are better than this. We are better than this as a city. We are better than this as a country. Go home."

    https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/go-...rations-to-end
    Pretty effective summary of related events. It’s a shame many appear to be exploiting a tragedy to riot and loot local businesses, destroying communities and requiring more of the kind of heavy handed, reactionary policing that led to Floyd’s death.

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Pretty effective summary of related events. It’s a shame many appear to be exploiting a tragedy to riot and loot local businesses, destroying communities and requiring more of the kind of heavy handed, reactionary policing that led to Floyd’s death.
    I know Keisha Lance Bottoms represents Atlanta, but who does she expect the people in MN to vote for? They already have two Dem senators, five Dem House reps (a majority), a Dem governor and a majority Dem legislature. The mayor of Minneapolis (where George Lloyd died) is also a Democrat. If her point is that voting for Biden in Nov. will somehow solve the issues of police negligence and/or brutality, then she is being both politically opportunist and delusional.

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    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    We can speculate as to the motivations for her choice of words. I think her broader point regarding how to effect political change and redress grievances without burning down cities is applicable to anywhere these riots are taking place. She was fairly direct: “When Dr. King was assassinated, we didn’t do this.”

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    The reference to MLK implies that the Floyd killing was racially motivated. As per Abdülmecid's post, at this stage there is no substantive evidence that it was. It is an assumption based on the racial characteristics of the suspect and of the victim.

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    I would think acknowledging the protesters' concerns and asking them to channel their anguish in more productive/less destructive ways to be a more effective appeal than attempting to part protesters with the belief that Floyd was a victim of racism, regardless of her personal beliefs.

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The reference to MLK implies that the Floyd killing was racially motivated. As per Abdülmecid's post, at this stage there is no substantive evidence that it was. It is an assumption based on the racial characteristics of the suspect and of the victim.
    While this particular incident may or may not have occurred because of the actions of a single racist police officer during a single incident, the riot response, and associated social media posting was absolutely a response to the perception of systemic racism across multiple jurisdictions. In this context, the individual motivation of the police officer involved almost becomes irrelevant because it was yet another heavy handed police officer killing a black man seemingly unnecessarily. The protests and riots are occurring because of the repetitive nature of these events, and the apparent lack of an adequate response (thus they keep happening). Because these events keep happening, it isn't a stretch to start considering that they are systemic issues.

    Interestingly, watching as an outside observer... Fox news were very quick to push the 'officer was a bad apple' narrative. Seemingly once again going with the "when it's one of us, it's an individual trait, but when it's one of them it's a group trait" narrative that so frustrates civil rights activists ('us' as in fox have always been the law enforcement network)

    But I agree with you. People should be able to protest abuses of power. I struggle where that protest turns violent, or implies violence. Violence entrenches viewpoints and makes solutions more difficult.

    I also worry when this becomes a Republican VS Democrat narrative. Like you pointed out, you can stack the deck with Democrats. But if a problem is systemic, just changing the label on the box won't do a thing. Racist ole uncle Joe has shown us Democrats can be just as problematic. It requires a society wide bipartisan effort over generations. That effort has been going on for generations, but it needs constant work.
    Last edited by antaeus; May 30, 2020 at 09:00 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    I think there a number of factors building up that got the public riled up. Just a few weeks ago a black woman, Breonna Taylor, was shot by police officers at her own home as the officers entered the wrong house in Kentucky. Only a few weeks before that, in Michigan, armed protesters stormed the capitol building to protest against the lock down measures while no response was given by the officers. Coupled with other incidents of police brutality and double standards, we had the killing of George Floyd in daylight with a lot of people with cameras.

    Now were discussing the violent protests and I'm having a deja vu. Footage from the protests show a number of cases where questionable characters performing vandalism without conviction while other protest try to stop them. There are also many cases of officers acting pointlessly violent or threatening. Last time I saw this was in my home town, in Istanbul, back in 2013, where protests against demolishing of a park turned violent. Sure, violence isn't supposed to be a part of protests. Back then protesters were blamed for being violent, yet I remember how the officers basically goaded people to respond violence with violence. It's becoming a common theme. We need to question that source of that violence.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; May 30, 2020 at 09:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    It's not that it's just a number of factors. It's basically the fact that these events have been going on for decades and the minority communities have been telling themselves these stories by word of mouth and angrily nodding.

    And then cellphones with cameras. And then youtube. And then hell, live posting what you're recording. All of a sudden in the past decade it's a lot harder to argue with or shrug off their stories. Culture shifts. The last five years officers start getting dismissed and they start trying to arraign them. They can't. Culture shifts. They try to arraign them as an officer and can't and it even takes then 5 years to fire them(Daniel Pantaleo is apparently still trying to get his job back). Culture shifts. Now chiefs and even unions are speaking out against this and the officers are outright fired(not dismissed) within a day and charges filed against one officer within two.

    All the while. What's been happening between these cases? Civilians have been getting themselves tickets for being Karens and Beckies and Chads and getting filmed doing so. In the end they often get fired for their trouble as companies want nothing to do with these people. Even now, between the incident in Georgia, the incident in Kentucky, and the incident in Minnesota, we can point to the Karen in Central Park.

    Culture still shifts slowly for the older police. But it's not just the police. Look at who is calling the police. This is systemically cultural. The younger generation isn't really taking the crap like the older generation is and is really the one crowding the streets in numbers. But they still see the problem as systemic. And it pulls them out in cities across the nation. Not just in the twin cities. There are protests in 30 cities this week. Some of them are more accurately defined as riots. At least two states have called up the national guard.
    Last edited by Gaidin; May 30, 2020 at 09:52 AM.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I think there a number of factors building up that got the public riled up. Just a few weeks ago a black woman, Breonna Taylor, was shot by police officers at her own home as the officers entered the wrong house in Kentucky. Only a few weeks before that, in Michigan, armed protesters stormed the capitol building to protest against the lock down measures while no response was given by the officers. Coupled with other incidents of police brutality and double standards, we had the killing of George Floyd in daylight with a lot of people with cameras.
    What is the 'double standard' in your example?

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    He seems to be comparing Taylor’s killing to the Michigan protests.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    He seems to be comparing Taylor’s killing to the Michigan protests.
    He's saying they tolerate the presence of white protesters with arms while they don't tolerate the more active protests of minorities.
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    To sum up, on May 25, George Floyd was arrested in Minneapolis by four police officers. While being restrained, one of the officers pressed Floyd's neck with his knee, despite Floyd already being handcuffed, offering no visible resistance and complaining about the pain. In fact, police officer insisted on not relieving Floyd, even after the latter lost his consciousness. Floyd eventually died and the official autopsy indicated that his death was partly the result of the violent restraint, among other factors. His arrest, however, was recorded by bystanders and the video footage depicting the unnecessarily harsh conditions of Floyd's arrest sparked rather unsurprisingly a huge controversy. Riots erupted in several American cities, where several instances of arson, looting, vandalism and even fatal shootings were reported. The four implicated officers were fired, while Derek Chauvin, the one having his knee on Floyd's neck, was arrested and charged for murder and manslaughter. Regarding political reactions, the incident has been condemned by a few current or former state leaders, some of them with a bit of a shady history on the issue of state oppression, but most of the attention was focused on Donald Trump's promise to decisively restore order, which was then marked by Twitter as an incitement to violence.

    In my opinion, the affair is more the result of the incompetence, under-funding and lack of training or transparency of the police force than a symptom of racism, although the second possibility cannot be excluded, until more information becomes available. Bullies like Chauvin have no place in any position of authority and it's utterly embarrassing for the Minneapolis department to be so incapable of adequately verifying of whether its members fulfill the most elementary criteria or not. On the other hand, I remain optimist that the situation will slowly, but gradually improve, as the society becomes more sensitive to these issues. Riots are unacceptable and, even from a cynical perspective, probably damaging to the cause, at least in the short term, but massive protests, together with advances in technology, certainly contribute to prevent several similar cases of arbitrary violence from occurring in the future. For example, it's good to see that Chauvin has already been ousted and arrested, Daniel Pantaleo, a New York police officer also blamed for the death of an arrested suspect under almost identical circumstances, was fired only five years after the event.
    The city is ran by Democrats. Shockingly, this is standard training for that police department. It seems incredible watching the horrific treatment of that man, but it is true. Most police departments do not subscribe to this technique as it is known to be dangerous and they prohibit its use.

    As a usual precaution when these things take place, stay indoors. Democrats are out in force on the streets. It's not safe to go out.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    What is the 'double standard' in your example?
    Black people carrying anything resembling a gun is seen and treated as a threat by cops. All they have to say is that they felt threatened. Meanwhile, white people can walk around armed to the teeth. A black person guilty of stealing Skittles could be beaten up bloody by cops. Meanwhile, a white guy shooting up a mosque doesn't even get a scratch. That's the kind of double standards that I'm talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    The city is ran by Democrats. Shockingly, this is standard training for that police department. It seems incredible watching the horrific treatment of that man, but it is true. Most police departments do not subscribe to this technique as it is known to be dangerous and they prohibit its use.

    As a usual precaution when these things take place, stay indoors. Democrats are out in force on the streets. It's not safe to go out.
    The way he held him down was not part of his training. So, you gotta try again. Are you also saying that it would fare differently in a Republican state?
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; May 30, 2020 at 12:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    What is the 'double standard' in your example?
    There is non. The Michigan protests did not involve looting, rioting and/or the widespread destruction of property. The occupation of the capitol building was legal according to state law, as was the open carrying of firearms. The point about an alleged disparity in treatment between the protesters in Michigan and the rioters in MN, GA and elsewhere is being promoted by the usual grifters and partisan interests in order to serve the race narrative. It has no particular basis in reality.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Black people carrying anything resembling a gun is seen and treated as a threat by cops. All they have to say is that they felt threatened. Meanwhile, white people can walk around armed to the teeth.
    So "in Michigan, armed protesters stormed the capitol building to protest against the lock down measures while no response was given by the officers" i.e. who exercised their rights under the first and second amendments of the Constitution, and had nothing happen to them, is a double standard compared to what?
    Are you attempting to claim it is a double standard compared to the reaction to riots and looting?

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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    double post
    Last edited by B. W.; May 30, 2020 at 01:08 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    The way he held him down was not part of his training. So, you gotta try again. Are you also saying that it would fare differently in a Republican state?
    <br><br>

    Your lack of reading comprehension shows up again. I never mentioned "state". I said "city". There are no Republican ran cities, that I am aware of that allows this type of training. Go ahead, start looking for one.

    And on your statement that it wasn't part of his training, it is just another instance of you parroting stereotypical images of police created by a misogynistic media. This is straight from the MPD training manual:

    5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)
    DEFINITIONS I.
    Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)
    Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)
    Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)
    Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)
    PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.
    A. The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)
    B. The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)
    1. On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
    2. For life saving purposes, or;
    3. On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.

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