I’m old enough to remember when protests were dangerous and will lead to the death of thousands because of coronavirus. But not one of the Karen’s in this thread has mentioned it.
Why?
I’m old enough to remember when protests were dangerous and will lead to the death of thousands because of coronavirus. But not one of the Karen’s in this thread has mentioned it.
Why?
She would be dead wrong. You're part of the problem when you care more about the property being damaged and pretend that peaceful protests haven't been falling on deaf ears. As MLK said "...a riot is the language of the unheard...". Hell, the Minneapolis protests started out peaceful until police escalated the situation. Now we got the same white moderates that King warned us about who care more about property damage than justice. Soon we'll start to see conservatives who very clearly would have been against MLK in his lifetime start quoting him and telling POC what he would have wanted.
The officer's history says otherwise.
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Riots aren't to be condoned but riots are one of America's favorite past times. Its a very easy way to gain attention and vent frustration. For African-Americans they have 400 years of it.
Just like in the Watts Rebellion and as Gaidan has pointed out, the younger generation isn't putting up with the same their parents had to deal with. Militancy is going to rise the more of these incidents occur.
This is a classic false dichotomy from the extreme left: either you accept, violence, looting and the destruction of property or you don't support justice. It can be safely ignored.
Aside from the fact that the "officer's history" is irrelevant when judging this particular case, your source does not establish - nor does it even attempt to establish - that Chauvin was racially malicious.
Last edited by Cope; May 30, 2020 at 01:50 PM.
It has been mildly amusing to see the MSM twist themselves into a pretzel to make sure they tow the ideological BLM line while threading the needle with the coronavirus panic-demic. CNN compromised by getting arrested and then reporting that the protests were "overwhelmingly peaceful" as building burned and collapsed in the background. They were quick to repaint their logo that was defaced last night in rioting in Atlanta. But enough dunking on CNN.
I doubt the cop was racist but I'd bet my next paycheck he's a huge . One of those people that don't mind getting paid a teacher's wage because they get to carry a big ol' gun and wave their dick around at everyone. Most cops aren't bad people but I'd say a majority of them are total jerks. Chauvin in particular had an awful record.
That being said, after some initial total tone deafness from the authorities in Minneapolis (guarding Chauvin's house instead of putting him under arrest and sending his family to stay with relatives or something) the BLM people are getting exactly what they want. Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey of House Frey (or as I like to call him, Great Value Brand Justin Trudeau) has been simping in news conferences every day. Everyone is speaking out against Chauvin. Nobody thinks what he did was justified and if they do, they're wrong. The video is unequivocal, the evidence is very clear. He has been arrested on a murder charge. "BUT HE'LL GET OFF!!" is a silly argument absent training in crystal ball gazing. Cross that bridge later.
Has this stopped the almost inevitable result? Reactionaries, bad actors, anarchists, the typical breatheless lefty types, and supported closely by the useful idiots in media have taken to the streets to obtain justice for the fallen by looting a brand new SAMSUNG 50" Class 4K UHD 2160p LED Smart TV with HDR UN50NU6900 and burning down low income housing.
So in conclusion, everyone has behaved or reacted as poorly as possible in this situation, and we get exactly what we deserve. I'll also speculate that having 36 million working age Americans out of work and keeping them locked in their own homes for the better part of three months is probably a tiny contributing factor to this really boiling over.
Where did you get that impression? How does that have anything to do with my post?
Didn't say any of that, but if it makes you feel better.
How is the officer's history of violence and complaints about his conduct not relevant to the murder he committed?Aside from the fact that the "officer's history" is irrelevant when judging this particular case
Because these things just happen in a vacuum, right?your source does not establish - nor does it even attempt to establish - that Chauvin was racially malicious.
It's kind of amazing that in a forum dedicated to a history game series, one can display such an ignorance of history. Cops get off easy, there are are exceptions, but this is what happens and what will likely happen. A third degree murder charge? What a joke.
At least use the term Karen correctly. The Karens are the ones protesting in Michigan. "We want haircuts" vs "stop killing us"...one of these things is not like the other.
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You explicitly accused others of being "part of the problem" for condemning the destruction of property and claimed that "white moderates" cared more about this than about "justice" (the false dichotomy I mentioned above). You then accused the police of "escalating" the situation with protesters despite the fact that your own source found in every case it reported on (NY not included) that it was the demonstrators who turned to violence first.
COLUMBUS, OHIO - The demonstration began as a peaceful protest, but news outlets reported protesters began throwing objects like water bottles at officers, who responded by using tear gas on the crowd. A scuffle between a protester and an officer broke out around 9:45 p.m., WCMH-TV reported.
Videos obtained by The Associated Press show people smashing the building’s windows. One person briefly entered an office through a broken window but retreated before troopers within the building could catch him, said Ohio State Highway Patrol spokesman Lt. Craig Cvetan.
PHOENIX — The newspaper reported that rocks and water bottles were thrown at police. Video from local broadcast stations shows protesters hammering on the window of a police car, and the newspaper reported at least one police car window was broken. The Arizona Department of Public Safety and Phoenix police responded by firing pepper spray and rubber bullets at the crowd.
LOUISVILLE, Ky. — At least seven people were shot in Louisville as hundreds of protesters converged on City Hall demanding justice for Breonna Taylor, a black woman who was fatally shot in March by police who broke down her door.
Louisville Metro Police said early Friday that at least one person was in critical condition. “No officers discharged their service weapons,” and all seven shot were civilians, police spokesman Sgt. Lamont Washington wrote in an email to The Associated Press.
DENVER — Protesters swarmed Denver on Thursday, blocking traffic and smashing vehicles while running from gunfire and police tear gas after a demonstration against the death of a black man in Minneapolis police custody turned violent.
Hundreds of demonstrators stood in the downtown streets and chanted as darkness fell outside the Colorado State Capitol, where protesters spray-painted graffiti and broke car windows. In other areas of downtown Denver, police in riot gear fired gas canisters, used rubber bullets and walked in a phalanx through the streets to drive protesters away. The protest briefly spilled over onto Interstate 25, blocking all lanes of traffic until police used tear gas to disperse the crowd.No court in the land determines the veracity of an accusation based on the history of the defendant. And even if they did, you still haven't presented any evidence that Chauvin had a racially malicious history.How is the officer's history of violence and complaints about his conduct not relevant to the murder he committed?
Your assumptions are not tantamount to evidence of motive. It isn't even clear what Chauvin's intentions were. It's perfectly possible that he acted in a grossly negligent fashion simply because he was a grossly negligent officer.Because these things just happen in a vacuum, right?
I think there’s multiple issues at stake in this case:
I think that a lack of proper oversight for police (i.e. them often “investigating” themselves), police apologists/“the blue brotherhood”, the militarization of the police in America in response to mass shooting/terrorism and other factors have created a system in which many officers feel themselves above the law. Again I want to stress that this isn’t “all cops” but it is far too many of them, and IMO this is because the power and ability to put oneself above the law tends to attract a lot of people towards the profession. Like, when I think back to people I know from public school growing up who wanted to/went on to join the police, a huge portion of them were the type of people that I don’t think were going to grow into well-adjusted human beings. But regardless, the apologists for police brutality and excessive force have allowed for unpunished state-endorsed tyranny by our law enforcement officers, but this situation is one that affects literally everyone in the US and shouldn’t be divided so racially. Yes, it almost certainly affects black people more negatively but putting too much power in law enforcement’s hands and allowing them to get away with criminal excessive use or force IS
an issue that everyone should be concerned with.
So the case of George Floyd I think is a massive landmark because it was so blatant that even the people usually jumping over themselves to defend the police using excessive force had to admit “hey actually yeah that’s pretty ed” and maybe start re-examining why they have defended the police prior. Even if the cause of death was a heart attack and not asphyxiation the chokehold and blatantly negligent and excessive actions by the police (seriously who calls 4 cops and chokeholds a guy crying that he can’t breathe over a ing FORGERY IN PROGRESS???) still was an obvious contributing factor in his death.
I thought this would be a great turning point where people of all races and creeds came to realize that often the police are not our friend but simply usually another tool by which the state can excessively intervene in our lives with unnecessary and unregulated violent force but now I’ve seen the political tool it is being used as. The fact that people are using this as an excuse to violently destroy their neighbor’s property and terrorize their neighborhood “out of anger” defeats the whole point. If some white people are morons who want to suck off the police and make excuses for them killing people guess what their takeaway when you violently loot innocent people’s livelihoods and homes? You make them a victim too, and now they instead have the opposite takeaway and think that empowering police even more to harass “potential criminals” with unnecessary force is what is needed to protect themselves. Taking MLK quotes out of context to rationalize violence does nothing but harm the legitimate point being made, just makes people off every other race less willing to listen to the BLM message against law enforcement (because law enforcement will be who is protecting them from YOU) and is so ridiculously hypocritical I almost have to imagine it’s a troll. The people out there looting “because of racial violence” aren’t real protesters but just opportunists trying to find a semi-valid reason to terrorize people of a different race and even their own.
Last edited by ggggtotalwarrior; May 30, 2020 at 02:56 PM.
Rep me and I'll rep you back.
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Your demand for a material sacrifice on the altar of moral sanction as a requisite profession of faith can and should be ignored.
She’s not wrong at all. Famously correct, in fact. She continued, “......more than 50 percent of the business owners in metro Atlanta are minority business owners -- if you care about this city, then go home. And pray that somebody like Reverend Beasley will come and talk to you and give you some instructions on what a protest should look like and how you effectuate change in America.”
Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII
Because this has proven to be the case. Condemning the looting is fine, but don't pretend that peaceful protests have either been ignored or attacked (I.E. the football man kneeling during a song) and wave your finger like they haven't tried other methods.
So plastic water bottles = tear gas and rubber bullets now? Everyone knows water bottles are the ultimate tool of violence. Plus, the Denver and Louisville stories, those explicitly show that police escalated things.You then accused the police of "escalating" the situation with protesters despite the fact that your own source found in every case it reported on (NY not included) that it was the demonstrators who turned to violence first.
There are certain circumstances where a person's history (defendant or plaintiff) can be admitted.No court in the land determines the veracity of an accusation based on the history of the defendant. And even if they did, you still haven't presented any evidence that Chauvin had a racially malicious history.
In most jurisdictions today, the circumstantial use of character is rejected but with important exceptions: (1) an accused may introduce pertinent evidence of good character (often misleadingly described as “putting his character in issue”), in which event the prosecution may rebut with evidence of bad character; (2) an accused may introduce pertinent evidence of the character of the victim, as in support of a claim of self-defense to a charge of homicide or consent in a case of rape, and the prosecution may introduce similar evidence in rebuttal of the character evidence, or, in a homicide case, to rebut a claim that deceased was the first aggressor, however proved; and (3) the character of a witness may be gone into as bearing on his credibility. McCormick §§155–161.I feel you're giving him (and the police in general) way too much credit.Your assumptions are not tantamount to evidence of motive. It isn't even clear what Chauvin's intentions were. It's perfectly possible that he acted in a grossly negligent fashion simply because he was a grossly negligent officer.
They went with the lightest charge they could get away with. That and every officer involved should be charged for being complicit.
Last edited by irontaino; May 30, 2020 at 03:15 PM.
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Or you could just wait for the conviction or exoneration and the sentencing instead of incorrectly explaining the exceptions against character evidence lol.
Not a charge they could prove, but one they could get away with...
What should the charge have been?
Not particularly relevant to my question, but last I heard, the prosecutor has some intent to charge the other officers as well.That and every officer involved should be charged for being complicit.
Your personal belief that the 1A and/or regular electoral cycles are insufficient to effect change does not interest me. The authorities are right to oppose criminal activity; they should not allow opportunists, thugs and political extremists (ie. militant "anti-fascists") to hijack George Floyd's death for their own interests and/or to damage the lives of innocent people.
You're going to have to explain how an unknown suspect(s) shooting seven civilians is the "police escalating things".So plastic water bottles = tear gas and rubber bullets now? Everyone knows water bottles are the ultimate tool of violence. Plus, the Denver and Louisville stories, those explicitly show that police escalated things.
None of which can be used to determine the veracity of the charge(s) against the defendant.There are certain circumstances where a person's history (defendant or plaintiff) can be admitted.
Originally Posted by Federal Rules of EvidenceDemanding that we wait for a trial before coming to judgement? How dare I.I feel you're giving him (and the police in general) way too much credit.
I see you are unfamiliar with how the law works. Overcharging risks throwing the whole case. The probability of convicting any of the officers for Murder in the First Degree or Murder in the Second Degree is small (and vanishingly so in the cast of 1DM).They went with the lightest charge they could get away with. That and every officer involved should be charged for being complicit.
Last edited by Cope; September 07, 2020 at 12:51 AM.
You and Cope said pretty much the same thing, so my response to him applies here.
Ignoring the rest of the country, but ok.She’s not wrong at all. Famously correct, in fact.
There both you and her go again. Condemn the looting all you want, but don't pretend it didn't explode into rioting for a reason.She continued, “......more than 50 percent of the business owners in metro Atlanta are minority business owners -- if you care about this city, then go home. And pray that somebody like Reverend Beasley will come and talk to you and give you some instructions on what a protest should look like and how you effectuate change in America.”
Only if they equate property damage with black lives. If all it took was stealing from Target for someone to say "I don't care about dead black people anymore", they never really did in the first place.
You only see it that way because of the rosy image painted of MLK after his death. He was a radical, he went to prison, he was very much against moderates (white ones specifically), he didn't condone riots, but understood why they happened (peaceful protests being ignored or attacked). I don't see people using his quotes out of context other than mostly conservatives who would have been against him if they were alive back then, and moderates who subscribe to the middle of the road fallacy. People who are that easily swayed into supporting police brutality were never on board with the cause anyway.Taking MLK quotes out of context to rationalize violence does nothing but harm the legitimate point being made, just makes people off every other race less willing to listen to the BLM message against law enforcement (because law enforcement will be who is protecting them from YOU) and is so ridiculously hypocritical I almost have to imagine it’s a troll.
Everyone responds to frustration differently, there's factors at play to how it exploded like this:The people out there looting “because of racial violence” aren’t real protesters but just opportunists trying to find a semi-valid reason to terrorize people of a different race and even their own.
— We’re in the middle of a global pandemic and many of the people on the front lines (making sure YOU can be comfortable at home) are Black people risking their lives for minimum wage, dealing with entitled white folks every single day.
— The virus itself is affecting Black people to a higher degree because of being denied access to health services and being forced to WORK during it.
— Even in the middle of a pandemic when most of the country sat at home for weeks, civilians being murdered by police did not see a downward turn AT ALL. We’re on track for the same number of deaths we saw last year.
— All week, every day, a new video of Racism in America. From white women using the police as their personal security service to elderly women being tackled by cops with guns drawn to another Black man who can’t breathe, murdered by a cop who should’ve been fired a long time ago.
As for the rest of your post, I agree with most of it in essence, which is why I didn't respond to those parts.
Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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If you don't want that to happen, then pay attention when they peacefully protest, pay attention to their grievances and fight to see that they're addressed. If you kept hitting me, despite me asking you to stop repeatedly while you denied that you were hitting me at all, what do you think I would do? Hold hands and sing Kumbaya or hit you back?
Police say they didn't shoot their service weapons, but they could be full of crap. Much like how a likely police provocateur started vandalizing an AutoZone before the riots in Minneapolis started. Ask yourself what would the protestors gain from shooting themselves?You're going to have to explain how an unknown suspect(s) shooting seven civilians is the "police escalating things".
Fair enoughNon of which can be used to determine the veracity of the charge(s) against the defendant.
Seeing as how cops have gotten off in court even in the face of blatantly obvious evidence in the past, I'm not holding my breath.Demanding that we wait for a trial before coming to judgement? How dare I.
Fair enough.I see you are unfamiliar with how the law works. Overcharging risks throwing the whole case. The probability of convicting any of the officers for Murder in the First Degree or Murder in the Second Degree is small (and vanishingly so in the cast of 1DM).
Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
Under the patronage of big daddy Elfdude
A.B.A.P.