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Thread: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

  1. #181
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    So the 'right to bear arms' is pretty much toothless when one is defending one's self or the community against violent or potentially lethal actions by the state.
    That depends entirely on the circumstances. For instance, there are examples of citizens being acquitted for shooting police who invaded their homes without knocking.

  2. #182
    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    You could make a case for physical resistance against a tyrannical state, but not for unrestricted violence/marauding against civilians and their businesses. It's true that conservatives and liberals have sniped at each other over GF's death and the subsequent riots (see the usual attempts to blame Trump above), but there isn't the same degree of dissonance on the right as there is on the left on this particular issue. What I think we're looking at it is a split between leftists and liberals on what racism is and how to confront it (not that either has even demonstrated racially malicious intent on Chavin's part).
    Certainly, there is probably less dissonance in those who are conservative. By in large, these riots are occurring in communities that primarily vote left, so processing this is going to happen in that community. And even in a polarised community there is a spectrum of experiences and motivations.

    But don't make the mistake of assuming that people who have broadly similar views to yours are being less inflammatory, or more constructive. I'm fairly sure that it wouldn't take much digging on Twitter or the comments section of right leaning news media websites to illustrate that the propensity for inflammatory statements about these riots doesn't exactly scream "let's get to the bottom of what's going on and see if we can work together to solve it"

    One area where I think you are missing a trick, is in leaning heavily on Chauvin's guilt or innocence. These riots aren't occurring because of this one event. The incident is a trigger for an existing grievance (legitimate or not). A straw breaking a camel's back. Focusing on one 'bad apple' cop (which Fox news have done as well) goes counter to the perception that there seems to be enough 'bad apples' to suggest that perhaps the apple tree is a little unwell. Chauvin's guilt or innocence becomes somewhat incidental, if it is yet another in a line of similar incidents. This is a perception that is strong enough that hundreds of thousands have risked health to march the streets during a pandemic, and hundreds or thousands have been able to take advantage to instigate violence. If I were you, I'd use this as an opportunity to debate this perception, rather than zero in on Chauvin himself.
    Last edited by antaeus; June 01, 2020 at 07:22 AM. Reason: spelled it bad.
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  3. #183
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barack Obama
    First, the waves of protests across the country represent a genuine and legitimate frustration over a decades-long failure to reform police practices and the broader criminal justice system in the United States. The overwhelming majority of participants have been peaceful, courageous, responsible, and inspiring. They deserve our respect and support, not condemnation — something that police in cities like Camden and Flint have commendably understood.

    On the other hand, the small minority of folks who’ve resorted to violence in various forms, whether out of genuine anger or mere opportunism, are putting innocent people at risk, compounding the destruction of neighborhoods that are often already short on services and investment and detracting from the larger cause. I saw an elderly black woman being interviewed today in tears because the only grocery store in her neighborhood had been trashed. If history is any guide, that store may take years to come back. So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. If we want our criminal justice system, and American society at large, to operate on a higher ethical code, then we have to model that code ourselves.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...resident-trump
    I suppose the former POTUS ought to now be branded a “white moderate” and kicked out of the Church of Virtue Signals. Those who continue to excuse and rationalize the pillaging of American communities are not on the side of social progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    This may have been mentioned in the previous 9 pages, but she's completely wrong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_assassination_riots
    It was mentioned in the previous 9 pages. And debunked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    l
    She’s not wrong at all. Famously correct, in fact. She continued, “......more than 50 percent of the business owners in metro Atlanta are minority business owners -- if you care about this city, then go home. And pray that somebody like Reverend Beasley will come and talk to you and give you some instructions on what a protest should look like and how you effectuate change in America.”

  4. #184
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Simply put, America suffers from a generalized, endemic racism.They are both guilty, Democrats and Republicans.But the Republican Party is re-positionating itself, aggressively and progressively, as the Party of Trump's racism.
    ----
    ----
    Suddenly, it occured to me Clinton's infamous phrase: "Nobody likes Sanders". I was just remembering the man who would - eventually - make the difference.
    berniesanders.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/

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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  5. #185
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Simply put, America suffers from a generalized, endemic racism.They are both guilty, Democrats and Republicans.But the Republican Party is re-positionating itself, aggressively and progressively, as the Party of Trump's racism.
    ----
    ----
    Suddenly, it occured to me Clinton's infamous phrase: "Nobody likes Sanders". I was just remembering the man who would - eventually - make the difference.
    berniesanders.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/
    The man who was overwhelmingly rejected at the ballot box by African American voters, you mean? The average voter simply isn't interested in hard left activism - particularly since it is also contaminated by anti-Semitism and ideas of racial vengeance.

  6. #186
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The man who was overwhelmingly rejected at the ballot box by African American voters, you mean?.
    Precisely.Paradoxically.
    ------
    The average voter simply isn't interested in hard left activism - particularly since it is also contaminated by anti-Semitism..
    An ignorant, stupid, highly biased statement.There is no other way to say it.

    ...and ideas of racial vengeance.
    Are you talking about Trump, the Hater -in- Chief? Donald Trump: The Revenge of the White Man | Time

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  7. #187

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    I'm so so glad I don't live in the racist hole that is the United States of America. Imagine having no workers rights, no affordable health care and a militarized police that can kill anyone they like without impunity.

    And this is the Land of the Free? Lol...
    Last edited by TheLeft; June 01, 2020 at 05:52 PM.

  8. #188

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Those who continue to excuse and rationalize the pillaging of American communities are not on the side of social progress.
    .
    When it comes to the treatment of black citizens by the state, what social progress?
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  9. #189
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    BUT- America is a land of cultural diversity, and Americans are generally friendly and generous. I can also say a lot of positive things about this amazing country.
    -------
    On a side note: it also occured to me that Sanders never said:"You ain't Black" if you don't vote for me". And, btw,the anti-Semitic card is getting old. Sanders was on a path of being the first Jewish President of the USA.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  10. #190
    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Simply put, America suffers from a generalized, endemic racism.They are both guilty, Democrats and Republicans.But the Republican Party is re-positionating itself, aggressively and progressively, as the Party of Trump's racism.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Philadelphia
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Chicago
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    California
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Lets get it clear, prejudice just doesn't affect African Americans. But I don't see any Indians, Asians or Hispanics amongst any of those looters. But in these videos we shouldn't just assume all black folk are looters right! anymore than all police officers are prejudiced thugs in that video of the death of Floyd. Assuming that these people have a criminal tendency. You can imagine what anyone in the police has to put up with on a daily basis. After Floyd's death that task is made considerably harder to deal with and society as a whole, will be the worse off.

    Trump has been very slow to act on this national emergency apart from the usual Tweets. I guess the election is on his mind. The President quickly needs to set up a new Secretarial position to coordinate a response to these disturbances at a national level. And that position should ideally should be an African American, like Ben Carson. It is not just about the events in Minneapolis. Social order must be secured firstly, because this is destroying the Country from the inside.
    Last edited by caratacus; June 01, 2020 at 04:32 PM.

  11. #191
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Precisely.Paradoxically.
    There is no paradox. The US is one of the most successful countries in the history of humanity. The vast majority of voters - including African Americans - don't want revolutionary solutions. A minority of criminals and political radicals exploiting GF's death isn't going to change that.

    An ignorant, stupid, highly biased statement.There is no other way to say it.
    As usual, you're prepared to nonchalantly accuse the US of suffering from a "generalized endemic racism", but when the same charge is leveled against the far-left, suddenly it's an "ignorant, stupid and highly biased statement".

    It is undeniable that elements of the radical left align themselves with viciously anti-Semitic regimes/organizations like Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and Assad out of a loathing for Israel. Others spread insidious anti-white rhetoric in the US and Europe in order to inflame racial tensions. You need only spend an afternoon on Twitter to see it all hanging out.

    Are you talking about Trump, the Hater -in- Chief? Donald Trump: The Revenge of the White Man | Time
    The white coalition for Trump (58%) was much smaller than the non-white coalition for Clinton (88% African American, 65% Hispanic and 65% Asian). Though in the age of "orange man bad" facts are subservient to narrative. A valiant, if not lazy, attempt to deflect though.
    Last edited by Cope; June 01, 2020 at 05:40 PM.

  12. #192
    Derc's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    There is no paradox. The US is one of the most successful countries in the history of humanity.
    *was

  13. #193
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    In many instances, it appears that it's white trust fund sissy babies that are breaking open the doors of businesses and encouraging the looting. I can't help but wonder who paid for those pallets of bricks that suddenly appeared in places where no construction was taking place. I guess they just innocently appeared there.

    https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/01/k...-retail-riots/

    Meanwhile, if things don't change, Ford is going to have to turn its SUV factory completely over to the production of police cruisers.
    Last edited by B. W.; June 01, 2020 at 05:48 PM.

  14. #194
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    I'm so so glad I don't live in the racist hole that is the United States of America. Imagine having no workers rights, no affordable health care and a militarized police that can kill anyone they like without impunity.

    And this is the Land of the Free? Lol...
    Because Europe is significantly better? I have a great deal of experience having lived for a year in Austria, and I can say that racism is deeply pervasive particularly against Africans and Arabs, and there are known cases of brutality among the police towards those racial groups. The European Union’s labor rights are also extremely exclusive, only really for EU citizens. Non-citizens have hardly any rights and are worked like dogs, and they support the illusory economy of prosperity and equality for the rest.

    Austria is my closest reference point, but we can see the same patterns elsewhere. Why is the National Front a popular and viable movement in France?
    Last edited by EmperorBatman999; June 01, 2020 at 06:07 PM.

  15. #195
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    Because Europe is significantly better? I have a great deal of experience having lived for a year in Austria, and I can say that racism is deeply pervasive particularly against Africans and Arabs, and there are known cases of brutality among the police towards those racial groups. The European Union’s labor rights are also extremely exclusive, only really for EU citizens. Non-citizens have hardly any rights and are worked like dogs, and they support the illusory economy of prosperity and equality for the rest.

    Austria is my closest reference point, but we can see the same patterns elsewhere. Why is the National Front a popular and viable movement in France?
    The racial divisions caused by slavery and the Jim Crow laws are not analogous to movements opposing mass-migration and multiculturalism. Even so, the suggestion that the US is socially and/or politically inferior to Europe is mostly nonsense.

  16. #196

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post

    A Multi-Level Bayesian Analysis of Racial Bias in Police Shootings at the County-Level in the United States, 2011–2014 [/quote]


    Blacks also commit 52% of the homicides as well. When you factor in the percentage of murders and other violent crimes committed by Africsn Americans, the 47% exoneration rat is peoportion ro.rhe number of homocides being committed by blacks.

    Likewise, the police shootings of African African is in proportion to the homocides African American commit, and does not reflect a bias by the police, once you take the proper.context into account https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...s-commit-crime

    Incidentsof unarmed whites being killed by police are just as frequent as blacks, such as this shooting of a man in bed this year by police https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...lling-69587748 the shootings.just don't get the same amount of media attention.

  17. #197
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/national-g...215000273.html

    Deploying a bunch of soldiers without any kind of police training or riot training will not help the situation.

  18. #198
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    How do you know they have no riot/crowd control training? One of the functions of the NG is to manage civil unrest in times of crisis (as it has done in the past).

  19. #199
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Well if you’re Vanoi it’s best to toss out a bunch of bull in favor of your argument and see what sticks
    Rep me and I'll rep you back. (IF YOU LEAVE YOUR NAME!)
    Quote Originally Posted by MrZanyGaming View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Strider View Post
    Oh, and this is false. As a white person, I can say that it's not possible to be racist to a white person.
    Congratulations, you just lowered my IQ by 10 points.

  20. #200
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    How do you know they have no riot/crowd control training? One of the functions of the NG is to manage civil unrest in times of crisis (as it has done in the past)
    You mean like at Kent State? I am actually referring to the US Army. Senators like Tom Cotton are suggesting invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807, allowing the government to send in active duty soldiers even without the request of state governments. Active duty members of the US Army do not have riot training.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    Well if you’re Vanoi it’s best to toss out a bunch of bull in favor of your argument and see what sticks
    How did things go at Kent State again? Oh and try and read the source next time cause its evident you didn't read .
    Last edited by Vanoi; June 01, 2020 at 06:56 PM.

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