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Thread: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

  1. #1041

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    You are under no obligation to debunk those trying to denigrate your religious, racial or national heritage.
    Indeed. Luckily I needn’t claim credit this time. Others, including you, have already done the work in summary fashion.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  2. #1042

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    That was a really pathetic cop out but sure. I understand why its a taboo to question something so simple. Hence, you try to deflect like there is no tomorrow. Little did she know your position on Jesus and subsequent denial and red herring denigrates itself a lot more.
    The Armenian Issue

  3. #1043

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    That was a really pathetic cop out but sure. I understand why its a taboo to question something so simple. Hence, you try to deflect like there is no tomorrow. Little did she know your position on Jesus and subsequent denial and red herring denigrates itself a lot more.
    Continuing to insist others are deflecting and copping out of “actual arguments” you haven’t bothered to attempt whilst dismissing or ignoring the self-evident historical and religious contexts debunking your narrative merely exposes your unsubstantiated one liners about white supremacy and black friends for the petulant, empty slogans that they are.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  4. #1044

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Continuing to insist others are deflecting and copping out of “actual arguments” you haven’t bothered to attempt whilst dismissing or ignoring the self-evident historical and religious contexts debunking your narrative merely exposes your unsubstantiated one liners about white supremacy and black friends for the petulant, empty slogans that they are.
    If they existed you'd point them out when I asked you for them. Instead you've been ranting about it. You're digging the whole deeper.
    The Armenian Issue

  5. #1045
    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Well that escalated quickly, how did we jump from police error to dozens of cities in riots in two continents and vandalism against statues ?

    The most strange thing about this is activists in African countries like Angola, Nigeria and South Africa, using the same BLM rhetoric against the police, some going as far as denouncing racist regime and police, and some looking with envy at the methods (riots and statue destruction)

    borders the protests crossing in Europe just show that in some way borders have been abolished, and one political event can be used to gin up unrest across the board, China must laughing its ass out
    Last edited by Menelik_I; July 02, 2020 at 09:37 AM.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

  6. #1046

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Well that escalated quickly, how did we jump from police error to dozens of cities in riots in two continents and vandalism against statues ?

    The most strange thing about this is activists in African countries like Angola, Nigeria and South Africa, using the same BLM rhetoric against the police, some going as far as denouncing racist regime and police, and some looking with envy at the methods (riots and statue destruction)

    borders the protests crossing in Europe just show that in some way borders have been abolished, and one political event can be used to gin up unrest across the board, China must laughing its ass out
    How? With more police brutality. What fueled the protests more and more was the police brutality they faced during their peaceful protests. The police, at least in USA, did their utmost in many places to agitate as many people as possible.
    The Armenian Issue

  7. #1047
    Stario's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    How? Some bs groups are riding on the blm movement cause it's getting attention atm, looting & destroying ones own city smh.

  8. #1048
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Mudpit rule #1

    1) Debate in good faith and respect other members. Elaborate and further develop your arguments whilst trying to respond to other members' arguments. Do not continue to repeat the same arguments.


    A lot of the more recent responses are not respecting said rule. Let's get back to follow said rule.

  9. #1049

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz on Thursday asked the federal government to help rebuild communities that sustained damage during the protests over the killing of George Floyd.

    Walz said the unrest resulted in the destruction of critical public infrastructure. Nearly 1,500 Twin Cities businesses were affected by vandalism, fire or theft. Current damage estimates exceed $500 million, Walz said.
    “Plz daddy trump help us”

  10. #1050

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    How? With more police brutality. What fueled the protests more and more was the police brutality they faced during their peaceful protests. The police, at least in USA, did their utmost in many places to agitate as many people as possible.
    How many black people died at the hands of those other than the police in the past month due precisely to the civil unrest? The number is in the low 100s. BLM as the left would present it is nothing more than a weak facade to boost democrat fundraising for 2020. Just like in the 1850s, democrats seem unable to stop themselves from profiting off the death, suffering, and exploitation of the black race. Oh well, old habits die hard I guess. They are even resurrecting their old animosities in order to delude their victims into cancelling the very man that struck a decisive blow at ending the disgusting institution of slavery. But don't take my word for it. Take the words and actions of of Charlotte Scott, an emancipated and patriotic citizen of the United States who contributed the unbelievably large sum of $5.00 for the time in order to fund the memorial. I look forward to your well researched and logic based retort.

  11. #1051

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    How many black people died at the hands of those other than the police in the past month due precisely to the civil unrest? The number is in the low 100s. BLM as the left would present it is nothing more than a weak facade to boost democrat fundraising for 2020. Just like in the 1850s, democrats seem unable to stop themselves from profiting off the death, suffering, and exploitation of the black race. Oh well, old habits die hard I guess. They are even resurrecting their old animosities in order to delude their victims into cancelling the very man that struck a decisive blow at ending the disgusting institution of slavery. But don't take my word for it. Take the words and actions of of Charlotte Scott, an emancipated and patriotic citizen of the United States who contributed the unbelievably large sum of $5.00 for the time in order to fund the memorial. I look forward to your well researched and logic based retort.
    Police brutality is not limited to cops killing black people. There are countless examples of cops shooting people standing by with rubber bullets at close range, shooting rubber bullets at people sitting at their porch, spraying them with pepper gas nonchalantly, pushing people into the ground for no reason so on and on. Every single one of those incidents fueled the protests.
    The Armenian Issue

  12. #1052

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    How? With more police brutality. What fueled the protests more and more was the police brutality they faced during their peaceful protests.
    They weren't that peaceful. They still aren't.

    Police brutality is not limited to cops killing black people. There are countless examples of cops shooting people standing by with rubber bullets at close range, shooting rubber bullets at people sitting at their porch, spraying them with pepper gas nonchalantly, pushing people into the ground for no reason so on and on. Every single one of those incidents fueled the protests.
    That is what you get when the Police tell you to do something, and you dont, the rubber bullets, and tear gas, the standard to mob dispersal tactics. There is always a reason, you are just not aware of it, its like you dont get the full context of the situations or something.

    Not getting the context of the situations, is what leads people assuming George Floyd was killed because of racism. When up until to this day, we dont actually know that.


    Also cops killing unharmed black people? more unharmed white people are killed by the police in America per year.

    There is no doubt issues, exist, and things could be better, but i also feel the problem is obviously overblown out of proportion, considering the statistics, and the magnitude of american demographics.


    Btw so far the short lived CHAZ seems to have a great track record at killing unharmed black youth. Who would have saw that coming!?

    Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz on Thursday asked the federal government to help rebuild communities that sustained damage during the protests over the killing of George Floyd.

    Walz said the unrest resulted in the destruction of critical public infrastructure. Nearly 1,500 Twin Cities businesses were affected by vandalism, fire or theft. Current damage estimates exceed $500 million, Walz said.
    Trump should give them the finger.

  13. #1053
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post


    Also cops killing unharmed black people? more unharmed white people are killed by the police in America per year.
    In the US, cops claim to have the most dangerous jobs of all, when in fact US prostitutes are having a much higher risk of getting violated or killed. The same is still true for countries where prostitution is legal or only semi-legal.

  14. #1054

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    They weren't that peaceful. They still aren't.
    That is what you get when the Police tell you to do something, and you dont, the rubber bullets, and tear gas, the standard to mob dispersal tactics. There is always a reason, you are just not aware of it, its like you dont get the full context of the situations or something.
    Not getting the context of the situations, is what leads people assuming George Floyd was killed because of racism. When up until to this day, we dont actually know that.
    Also cops killing unharmed black people? more unharmed white people are killed by the police in America per year.
    There is no doubt issues, exist, and things could be better, but i also feel the problem is obviously overblown out of proportion, considering the statistics, and the magnitude of american demographics.
    Btw so far the short lived CHAZ seems to have a great track record at killing unharmed black youth. Who would have saw that coming!?
    They were peaceful. The family that was sitting on their porch was peaceful. The police had no right to tell them to shut down their camera feed.
    The old guy who was left bleeding from his head after being pushed to the ground by the police was peaceful.

    The police do not get a blank check even when someone doesn't comply with their order. Do you have actual data that shows cops killing of unarmed people by race?

    This is one way a peaceful protest turns violent.
    The Armenian Issue

  15. #1055

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post


    ------The police do not get a blank check even when someone doesn't comply with their order. Do you have actual data that shows cops killing of unarmed people by race?-------


    The data is originally from the Washington Post, but since I encountered a paywall and didn't want another subscription, I looked elsewhere and found most of it reprinted in a Wall Street Journal article. I originally meant to post this info in the post I made about Candice Owens since she quoted these numbers at the end of her video but it just took me some time to find them without a paywall.



    The Myth of Systemic Police Racism
    Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there’s no evidence of widespread racial bias.


    In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

    The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.
    Full article
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myt...sm-11591119883



    Although the article doesn't say, the number of white people overall killed in 2019 was 370 and Hispanic 158

    blacks killed of total 23%---unarmed 0.8%
    whites killed of total 37%---unarmed 1.8%

    However to just compare black to white let's re-figure them as a percent of the total of the two

    That yields 39% for blacks and 61% for whites

    Source which give the above data, but does not give any numbers for those unarmed

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

    You will note that there is a substantial figure of 204 people listed as unknown. The best one could do for that figure would be to simply apply the ratios for those known.

    Considering that blacks who represent only 13% of the population are committing around 54% of all murders and whites who represent 74% are committing 44% of the murders, one would assume that blacks are having more contact with police than whites for these violent types of crimes. The percentages for robbery are almost identical.

    Source of FBI crime statistics from 2018 (the latest available)
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43

    However, there is a section titled violent crimes that combines the stats for murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assaults. Due to the sheer volume of aggravated assaults which is 3 or more times the other three categories combined, the over all stats shift quite a bit due to the fact that they are a bit more comparable to the population percentages but not quite

    consequently we get this for the violent crimes category
    Black crime/arrests----146,734 or 37% of total or a crime rate=0.3% of pop. or 300 per 100,000
    White crime/arrests----230,299 or 59% of total or a crime rate=0.09% of pop. or 90 per 100,000

    The crime rate was figured by simply dividing the arrest/crime factor of each demographic by its total population.

    Regardless of how one looks at it, the numbers of black versus whites killed in 2019 by police are in varying degrees of an inverse proportion to the crime rates of those two demographics. I didn't go much further since the FBI report is for the year prior to Washington Post's data. There are no 2019 crime stats available from the FBI as of yet.



    Cheers

    P.S. I firmly believe that Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) was correct when he popularized the quote that:

    There are three kinds of lies.
    Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    Last edited by Forward Observer; July 03, 2020 at 05:48 PM.
    Artillery brings dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl!

  16. #1056

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Observer View Post
    The data is originally from the Washington Post, but since I encountered a paywall and didn't want another subscription, I looked elsewhere and found most of it reprinted in a Wall Street Journal article. I originally meant to post this info in the post I made about Candice Owens since she quoted these numbers at the end of her video but it just took me some time to find them without a paywall.
    Full article
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myt...sm-11591119883
    Although the article doesn't say, the number of white people overall killed in 2019 was 370 and Hispanic 158
    blacks killed of total 23%---unarmed 0.8%
    whites killed of total 37%---unarmed 1.8%
    However to just compare black to white let's re-figure them as a percent of the total of the two
    That yields 39% for blacks and 61% for whites
    Source which give the above data, but does not give any numbers for those unarmed
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/
    You will note that there is a substantial figure of 204 people listed as unknown. The best one could do for that figure would be to simply apply the ratios for those known.
    Considering that blacks who represent only 13% of the population are committing around 54% of all murders and whites who represent 74% are committing 44% of the murders, one would assume that blacks are having more contact with police than whites for these violent types of crimes. The percentages for robbery are almost identical.
    Source of FBI crime statistics from 2018 (the latest available)
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43
    However, there is a section titled violent crimes that combines the stats for murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assaults. Due to the sheer volume of aggravated assaults which is 3 or more times the other three categories combined, the over all stats shift quite a bit due to the fact that they are a bit more comparable to the population percentages but not quite
    consequently we get this for the violent crimes category
    Black crime/arrests----146,734 or 37% of total or a crime rate=0.3% of pop. or 300 per 100,000
    White crime/arrests----230,299 or 59% of total or a crime rate=0.09% of pop. or 90 per 100,000
    The crime rate was figured by simply dividing the arrest/crime factor of each demographic by its total population.
    Regardless of how one looks at it, the numbers of black versus whites killed in 2019 by police are in a varying degrees of an inverse proportion to the crime rates of those two demographics. I didn't go much further since the FBI report is for the year prior to Washington Post's data. There are no 2019 crime stats available from the FBI as of yet.
    Cheers
    P.S. I firmly believe that Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) was correct when he popularized the quote that:
    There are three kinds of lies.
    Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    Your source itself indicates that the definition of "unarmed" is being used too broadly. An actual study says this:

    Deaths Due to Use of Lethal Force by Law Enforcement
    Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims.
    Black victims were significantly more likely to be unarmed than white or Hispanic victims. Black victims were also significantly less likely than whites to have posed an immediate threat to LE.
    Relatedly, studies of “shooter bias” have found that both civilians and LE officers showed a greater tendency to shoot unarmed black men than white men in computer simulations.
    Another study I'd love to see is the average number of bullets found in victims of police shooting. I looked for it but couldn't find any.
    The Armenian Issue

  17. #1057

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Yes I’m sure your study of 2009-2012 is much more relevant.

  18. #1058

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    Yes I’m sure your study of 2009-2012 is much more relevant.


    I was just about to point that out that a study from 8 years ago has very little to with what was reported in 2019. In fact the Washington post study which I quoted plainly mentions the drop from 2015 to 2019 indicating that there has been a big shift in how police approach blacks versus whites--especially those that are unarmed.

    The police fatally shot
    nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015.

    As you can see the ratios drastically changed in just the 4 years between 2015 to 2019.

    I have seen this shift mentioned in many fairly current articles in that due to the change in the societal or political climate and and the vilification of police tactics starting with the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson in 2014, many, if not most white cops are simply less likely to use deadly force on a black person than they are on a white. Thus the current numbers have little correlation to whether they are armed or not, but has more to do with whether they are black or white. Sort of reverse racism, you might say.

    The thing is that shooting an unarmed white man rarely makes national news regardless of how egregious it was. It simply doesn't fit the legacy news narrative. I doubt that anyone here could even name one without doing an internet search.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Forward Observer; July 03, 2020 at 06:35 PM.
    Artillery brings dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl!

  19. #1059

    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    The thing is that shooting an unarmed white man rarely makes national news regardless of how egregious it was. It simply doesn't fit the legacy news narrative. I doubt that anyone here could even name one without doing an internet search.

    Cheers
    Tony Timpa is one of those that people and news media only found out this year, despite happening in 2016, in Dallas Texas. He died in the same manner Floyd did.

    A 32 white male with schizophrenia, who called 911 for help because he hadn't taken his meds. The police arrived, and put him on the ground with the knee on his neck for 14 minutes. While mocking him.
    They had body cams, and there is video of it as well. The cops didn't meant to kill him, but didn't cared enough anyway, they are still cops to this day.

  20. #1060
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Death of George Floyd and Subsequent Riots.

    I heard of that one as i researched the mess. So does it still help black people to terrorize each other and their mothers?

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