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Thread: How could a heaven operate?

  1. #161
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    conon394,

    Was Thomas not the one who on seeing Jesus and His scars, fell on his knees crying out, " My Lord and my God?" How core can you get?

  2. #162
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Was Thomas not the one who on seeing Jesus and His scars, fell on his knees crying out, " My Lord and my God?" How core can you get?
    No I meant the actual gospel of Thomas excluded from the NT not the person.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  3. #163
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    No I meant the actual gospel of Thomas excluded from the NT not the person.
    Well the only real answer I can give for that is that if God had wanted it to be in His Holy Scriptures it would have been. Apparently it is a collection of some 114 sayings attributed to Jesus yet no Gospel background to them making the when and where indiscernible to the reader.

  4. #164
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Well the only real answer I can give for that is that if God had wanted it to be in His Holy Scriptures it would have been. Apparently it is a collection of some 114 sayings attributed to Jesus yet no Gospel background to them making the when and where indiscernible to the reader.
    The what and where of the existing NT is no more certain. The point is twofold.

    First it looks rather not like the will of god, but the will of several powerful bishops that saw to the edit you cling to. But of course I can not refute the will of god argument from a believer with a made up mind.

    But that does open the second. Form a different thread...

    Why does a Muslim who has been brought up in say the UK his adopted land, strap a bomb to himself and kill the people to whom he owes so much for letting him and his family live and work here? Explain that to me?
    Potentially just the same honest belief that allows you deflect any criticism of your particular preferred version of NT and its claimes about the OT through the same argument - god wills.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  5. #165
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    The what and where of the existing NT is no more certain. The point is twofold.

    First it looks rather not like the will of god, but the will of several powerful bishops that saw to the edit you cling to. But of course I can not refute the will of god argument from a believer with a made up mind.

    But that does open the second. Form a different thread...



    Potentially just the same honest belief that allows you deflect any criticism of your particular preferred version of NT and its claimes about the OT through the same argument - god wills.
    The "Bible" was only collated after Jesus died and even then it has fluctuated in length and composition: this is also true of the Jewish Canon as demonstrated by internal and external evidence from before Nag Hamadi to the 21st century.

    Supposedly the Word of God, but in fact a human artefact.

    The KJV is full of mistranslations and spelling errors ranging from simple scribal and copyist mistakes down to egregious printer's mistakes (eg the Adulterer's Bible).

    I do think the author's intent shines through in many places and if you see God in that light good luck to you and I respect that. Don't try to sell me the Bible as perfection though, unfortunately I have studied it too much to believe such an obvious lie. The curse at the end of Revelations is an empty one, many have altered the Bible (some I think with demonstrable ill will) and not suffered all the curses contained within.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  6. #166
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    The answer to OP is - you can apply the logic of material world to transcendental world . Not compatible

  7. #167
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Cyclops,

    Now that is strange because all the Old Covenant saints were accounted righteous before God in their belief that Messias would come to cleanse their sin so we already had the Bible part one in existence before any bishops got hold of it. Part two was the evidence that part one was correct in its predictions. Jesus Christ was the " Seed " promised from the garden Who lived and died according to all the predictions, Who was resurrected, displaying Himself to many hundreds and now awaits His time to return to finish all things predicted. That's not a lie. No matter the Bible if it contains that message, the Gospel, then people will be saved and are being saved even as I write, all across this world. That too is not a lie.

    That I prefer the KJV and the NKJV is because it was the former that led me to Jesus Christ. The only times I picked up a Bible was as a kid interested in reading of the battles in it and only when staying at my aunt's house. The crucifixion meant nothing to me through all those years me believing that God was a spaceman from the book Chariots of the Gods. Why even after my conversion I didn't realise that Jesus is God and so after some thirtyseven years of reading and studying the Word I am still learning so much as it is opened to me to see. The thing is that if I saw it through your perspective I would still know nothing but as I know that it is the Word of God as if written by Him therein lies what separates you and me.

    Concerning the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ as John Metcalfe writes, it is a seven fold panoramic description of how God dealt with His enemies from the beginning of the world until its end. The Apostle John was carried up into heaven to see these things whether in dream or vision it matters not as I had a simialr experience of being taken up and back to see Jesus' last moments on the cross. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect to see anything like that as I was but a Christian a few days old. John was the most intimate follower of Jesus, hanging on His every word and so it doesn't surprise me that he was chosen to reveal this last book of the Bible, to see Jesus Christ as He actually is. But as Peter points out, the Bible, Gods word, can only be really understood through the workings of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of those that do believe because unbelievers have been blinded to it.

  8. #168

    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Real question is What would a Kingdom of God (not of this world) have in reserve for us?
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  9. #169
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Blackjack and hookers.

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  10. #170
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Well the only real answer I can give for that is that if God had wanted it to be in His Holy Scriptures it would have been. Apparently it is a collection of some 114 sayings attributed to Jesus yet no Gospel background to them making the when and where indiscernible to the reader.
    Too add apparently so you have not read the published works? Tisk Tisk. You seem rather satisfied with the very real human editing of what should or should not be in the Bible or how it is translated - preferably a friendly translation. I would think you would be exited about a work not manipulated by papists and left in the ground so as to be immune to human copy error all these years.

    ------------

    @Akar

    Blackjack and hookers.
    I take the hookers assuming they are legal and have rights but really blackjack??? I want a real game Pinochle or Whist. Plus what do I get to drink I want a sold French Dry red and no hang over. And cats... but cats who don't have hair balls or get tape worms from eating whatever the crap they were hunting. Oh and I want the solid coverage of the NHL season.
    Last edited by conon394; September 20, 2020 at 06:11 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  11. #171
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    ...and I want the solid coverage of the NHL season.
    Yeah, you do. "Hell is heaven seen from the other side" William of Baskerville.

    Makes sense, why have two eternal loci when one will serve both purposes. "Endless beer with ex-presidents" "Cats?" "Gardening 24/7" are all one person's heaven and another's hell. Or maybe its just heaven for a while until you realise...as in [arrives in heaven] [Uptown Funk starts to play] hey cool song [Uptown Funk Funk finishes] K whats...[Uptown Funk starts to play again] wait...
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  12. #172
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    I take the hookers assuming they are legal and have rights but really blackjack??? I want a real game Pinochle or Whist. Plus what do I get to drink I want a sold French Dry red and no hang over. And cats... but cats who don't have hair balls or get tape worms from eating whatever the crap they were hunting. Oh and I want the solid coverage of the NHL season.
    These are all great points and I agree.

    I think it's worth mentioning that I didn't say there would only be blackjack and hookers, I just suggested that they would take a large focus.

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  13. #173
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Better then get that done now because where you're going it's going to get plenty hot and not as you suggest.

  14. #174
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Better then get that done now because where you're going it's going to get plenty hot and not as you suggest.
    Or not - maybe I will have to just try to transcend the cycle of reincarnation on the next go around.

    Yeah, you do. "Hell is heaven seen from the other side" William of Baskerville.
    Cyclops. Possibly, but a the majority seem to think you get some kind of transcendent event that make eternity cool. If not I can roll Socrates like. I mean getting Aristophanes' rivals to recite their works, quiz Hamilton on where the republic is messing up or on daily politics or with the Federalist army and Navy how he would have ran the war of 1812. Get to remind Andrew Jackson every 'day'? of eternity that I hate that his face is on the 20 dollar bill.

    Do suppose you have to work? That would kinda suck. Either variant.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  15. #175
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Better then get that done now because where you're going it's going to get plenty hot and not as you suggest.

    Do not judge lest ye be judged.

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  16. #176
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Akar,

    I don't need to judge you as that has been already done.

  17. #177
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    And yet, you have.

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  18. #178
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Akar,

    The Lord Jesus described what hell will be like, Luke 16, 14-31. and for whom it is reserved, something decided by God even before the worlds were made. The fall brought about the separation between man and God meaning that no-one escapes condemnation unless they have been predetermined to be saved and escape hell. It's not me who judges you, rather the words that come out of your mouth that condemn you. You really should think about that rather than blaming anyone else.

  19. #179
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    I haven't blamed anyone, just highlighted the hypocrisy of your words.

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  20. #180
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    I haven't blamed anyone, just highlighted the hypocrisy of your words.
    Akar,

    The hypocracy of my words come from the Bible so is God a hypocrite? Of course he must be in your eyes because anyone who doesn't agree with you is also a hypocrite. We're to blame for what God describes as your final destination which you scoff at on a regular basis.

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