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Thread: How could a heaven operate?

  1. #121
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    I would not claim such things like Mr. Cooper here in Germany, as its criminal to use academic titles you haven't achieved ( 132 a StGB).

    This law protects the public trust in academic titles and official offices.
    Interesting. It a bit more informal in the US a combination of laws for some areas and just being fired for cause in others (for example I'm not PE electrical engineer nor do I have license to practice as such in my state), just the BS - so it would be illegal to sign off on a project or work in a lot of situations unless I was under the direction of PE(*). So you can slide a bit especially if you set up a flim flam front. But Its much more easy now for you fake record to detected.

    * Obviously the PE is the one on the hook and would likely make sure they are really hiring a credible candidate.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  2. #122
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    I know that it is illegal to represent yourself as an attorney if you are not in fact an attorney.

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  3. #123
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    I know that it is illegal to represent yourself as an attorney if you are not in fact an attorney.
    Although I think in most English based common law countries that still only requires passing the bar and being approved to practice law in a state not a any particular degree, may be wrong. Just like being a surgeon I think it is really more important legally in the US to have your state licenses and board certifications. I suppose your residency requirement is critical but it still squishy in the US. And obviously nobody is going to jail for claiming a US degree in theology or history. Loose a job but that's about it. In the US at least it kinda depends on if a life might depend on your decision. After that well inflate away till you get caught.
    Last edited by conon394; August 03, 2020 at 03:57 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #124
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    In most American states you are required to have a degree to even take the bar in the first place. Very few places will allow you to read the bar anymore.

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  5. #125
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    In most American states you are required to have a degree to even take the bar in the first place. Very few places will allow you to read the bar anymore.
    Too much history in my head although a lot JDs are really weak I take solid science MA out of good land grant with just some legal study on the weekend over many of them if thay pass the bar.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #126
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Full Biography
    Dr Bill Cooper - B.A.Hons. Phd. Thd.

    Short Biography:

    Dr Bill Cooper is a council member and trustee of the Creation Science Movement. He is married with two daughters and has recently been awarded an Honours degree by Kingston University (England) for combined studies in the History of Ideas (Religion, Philosophy and Political Theory) and English Literature. He has lectured on The Table of Nations, under the auspices of the CSM, in Germany, Belgium and at many venues in England including Leeds University.



    He has written numerous articles for the Creation Science Movement and for the Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal published by the Creation Science Foundation of Australia, on the Table of Nations (The Early History of Man series), the historical Jonah and other subjects.
    gallery/bill cooper

    Dr Bill Cooper is a Vice President of the Creation Science Movement in England. He also serves as an Adjunct Professor on the Master Faculty at the Institute for Creation Research School of Biblical Apologetics.


    He is the author of After the Flood (1995); Paley's Watchmaker (1997); William Tyndale's 1526 New Testament (old-spelling ed. British Library. 2000); The Wycliffe New Testament of 1388 (British Library. 2002); The Authenticity of the Book of Genesis (CSM. 2012); The Authenticity of the Book of Daniel (2012); The authenticity of the Book of Jonah (2012); The Chronicle of the Early Britons (2012), and Old Light on the Roman Church (2012). He has also authored

    numerous technical articles on Creationism, Palaeoanthropology, Bible Apologetics, the Reformation, and the History of the English Bible.

    Graduating with Honours at Kingston University (England), he went on to obtain both his PhD and ThD from Emmanuel College of Christian Studies (Springdale, Arkansas) under the auspices of the College Dean, Dr Gene Jeffries, and the supervision of faculty member Dr James J Scofield Johnson.



    He lives in England, is married to Eileen (for 40 years now), has two daughters, numerous foster children, and three fine grandsons.

  7. #127
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    That college didn't exist, so Mr. Cooper is a impositor and his CV is faked.^^
    But you can't turn back the time It always gonna wait on the line Some may wish never to be born
    Wasting the dawn Like a rose growing from the Christ's thorn Wasting the dawn


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  8. #128
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    My two cents: Hell might be nothing more than all the places in existence where you have a physical body capable of experiencing pain (without pain, no hell). You might go to this hell as long as you're prone to interact with the environment in a disharmonious way (especially if the environment is part of God's body). When you have learned to interact with the environment in a harmonious way, pain would no longer serve a good purpose, and then you should stop going to hell. And if you stop going to this hell, and still experience life, it would appear that you're in heaven (higher form of existence than the physical plane). All this I could imagine to be true if there exists a good God, after all (despite appearances, there being a divine point also with us doing this part of the evolutionary journey without knowing God).
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  9. #129
    Adamat's Avatar Invertebrate
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    The implication that experiencing pain is your own fault for not being harmonious with your environment is frankly insulting. If us being able to experience pain is supposed to teach us how to behave so that we won't have to again, then it would be reasonable to assume that there's a lesson to be learned every time we experience pain. Tell me, where's the lesson in children starving to death due to poverty, where's the lesson in being murdered by adherents of false ideologies through no fault of your own in random acts of terrorism?
    #JusticeForCookie #JusticeForCal #JusticeForAkar #JusticeForAthelchan

  10. #130
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    basics

    from Emmanuel College of Christian Studies (Springdale, Arkansas)
    It does not exist. It has no students, no graduates.

    Dr Gene Jeffries
    Does exist and amazingly does exist but not as supervisor of a non existent university and he has not even fake to third rate credentials to oversee anyone into a PhD. All His academic work rather vaguely listed is in a tiny set basically southern baptist institutions of rather questionable nature and credibility. None which as best I can see has any accredited post graduate program on Ancient history or Sumerian or Babylonian History, or Biblical archeology or whatever.

    "After the Flood (1995)"

    Umm you know the first sample is here

    http://www.filosoferick.nl/filosofer...Flood-1995.pdf

    Never truly trust a man with many ellipses in a quote...

    from the 'book'

    "'First of all the Void came into being ...next Earth ...Out of the Void came darkness ...and out of the Night came Light and Day...' (7)"

    Actual text of Hesiod 126 ff

    "Hail, children of Zeus! Grant lovely song [105] and celebrate the holy race of the deathless gods who are for ever, those that were born of Earth and starry Heaven and gloomy Night and them that briny Sea did rear. Tell how at the first gods and earth came to be, and rivers, and the boundless sea with its raging swell, [110] and the gleaming stars, and the wide heaven above, and the gods who were born of them, givers of good things, and how they divided their wealth, and how they shared their honors amongst them, and also how at the first they took many-folded Olympus. These things declare to me from the beginning, you Muses who dwell in the house of Olympus, [115] and tell me which of them first came to be. In truth at first Chaos came to be, but next wide-bosomed Earth, the ever-sure foundation of all1the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympus, and dim Tartarus in the depth of the wide-pathed Earth, [120] and Eros (Love), fairest among the deathless gods, who unnerves the limbs and overcomes the mind and wise counsels of all gods and all men within them. From Chaos came forth Erebus and black Night; but of Night were born Aether2and Day, [125] whom she conceived and bore from union in love with Erebus. And Earth first bore starry Heaven, equal to herself, to cover her on every side, and to be an ever-sure abiding-place for the blessed gods. And she brought forth long hills, graceful haunts [130] of the goddess Nymphs who dwell amongst the glens of the hills. She bore also the fruitless deep with his raging swell, Pontus, without sweet union of love. But afterwards she lay with Heaven and bore deep-swirling Oceanus, Coeus and Crius and Hyperion and Iapetus, [135] Theia and Rhea, Themis and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoebe and lovely Tethys. After them was born Cronos the wily, youngest and most terrible of her children, and he hated his lusty sire."

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...0%3Acard%3D104


    Sorry not really a much to with one omnipotent god out of the JC tradition.. And of course all anthropomorphized progenitors are basically disinterested in Humans.

    His review of Greek philosophy is poor and incomplete and of course Socrates died in a political trial and one that he could have walked into exile from which was almost certainly the intend of his accusers. Dredging up religious charges that nobody had cared about for his whole life of something over 80 years was of needed because any political charge would have ran up against the amnesty that settled the overthrow of the Spartan imposed 30 tyrants (many of the leaders of which , most of whom had been his associates).
    Last edited by conon394; August 04, 2020 at 08:04 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  11. #131
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    No idea why you're so interested in proving that this guy isn't faking his credentials, Basics. It's pretty clear he isn't who he suggests he is and doesn't have the education he suggests he does. Why would you trust his publishings to be any less inaccurate than his credentials?

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  12. #132
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamat View Post
    The implication that experiencing pain is your own fault for not being harmonious with your environment is frankly insulting. If us being able to experience pain is supposed to teach us how to behave so that we won't have to again, then it would be reasonable to assume that there's a lesson to be learned every time we experience pain. Tell me, where's the lesson in children starving to death due to poverty, where's the lesson in being murdered by adherents of false ideologies through no fault of your own in random acts of terrorism?
    Sorry for not covering that implication right away. Yes, that is the one of the greatest and most heart-felt questions in our lives today, which in large part stems from the modern world view that we only have one life. If this world view is in fact correct, then I'll be the first to proclaim there's no meaning of life whatsoever, no point whatsoever in going through all those moments of real pain, because we don't get the time necessary to learn or benefit from it. But I don't know everything about how the world works, some people must know a lot more than I do, and these might include those who claim that the world works in a different way. Even the authors of the Bible. So one of statements about the workings of the world that I have noted is the following: "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.". This is remarkable. It claims that you - and nobody else, not even God - are in control of your destiny as much as you're in control of your actions. But this statement cannot possibly be true if we only have one life. We don't see the sowing for some children or people being murdered by terrorism etc, and we don't see the reaping of those committing such murders etc, either. That statement can only be true if we have more than life somehow. Because then those reaping the starvation to death in this life got the time to having sowed, i.e. caused, such an experience to other people in an earlier life, the victims of terrorism in this life got the time for having been perpetrators of the same level of terrorism in an earlier life, and those who commit acts of terrorism in this life will have the time for the becoming victims of the same thing in subsequent lives, etc. The statement suggests the existence of an invisible natural law gorverning the results of our actions with millimeter precision. Now, suppose that our disposition to deliberately act in ways harmful (painful) to others depends on our sensivity or degree of understanding what it feels like in such a way that the lower this understanding, the greater the disposition to commit such acts. Suppose further that the only way to significantly improve such sensivity or understanding is to be on the receiving end of such harmful acts. Every time you go through such an experience, guaranteed by that natural law, it will lessen the disposition to continue acting like that. Eventually, in the course of many lives, the sensitivity could grow so strong that you simply cannot do harmful things like that anymore. And then that natural law or greater order must see to it that you're born into lives and places where you cannot be harmed in great measure anymore. That would be tantamount of getting out of hell and into heaven. In this way, the experience of pain could contribute to evolution of our species, and serve a good purpose.
    I must confess, if the world is perfectly (divinely) just in this way, that is the only way I can begin to try accepting all the that can happen and all too-often happens in this violent and socially primitive world (I'm just waiting for anyone in this forum to puke on everything that I've said here). I have no idea if that statement is in fact true. As one of my philosophical projects, I'm investigating the ontological requirements for it to be true, the possible consequences of it being true, and if there's any empiric evidence indicating that it's true. The subject cannot be covered satisfactorily in a little thread of this kind, so I just mentioned it in case someone would like to investigate the question further on his or her own. All else should just move on.


    PS. Maybe I should mention one example of the consequences. If that statement is true, if would make more sense to this curious advice from Jesus of Nazareth: "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.". Because if someone hits you, that would have to be the law-governed reaping of some earlier act of your doing to hit someone, and if you repay that reaping in kind, it will constitute a new sowing that must be reaped. So only by refraining from replying in bad kind do you have a chance of improving your life. Only in that case does the advice of Jesus appear pretty sound, as far as I can see, and in line with possible mission to save us from bad things. That, in turn, would strengthen the character of Jesus and make him more interesting in my book.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  13. #133
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    It is written that only God determines by grace who will enter heaven and who will not. That there is a heaven is described by Jesus in the story of the rich and poor men. In heaven the poor man is at peace whilst in hell the rich man is in torment only separated by a chasm. So hell is not some dark dingy place but like heaven covered by Light but Light that disturbs the one but not the other. We find the rich guy begging to get a message to his brothers because he doesn't want them suffering as he is suffering and will do for the rest of eternity.

  14. #134
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    It is written that only God determines by grace who will enter heaven and who will not. That there is a heaven is described by Jesus in the story of the rich and poor men. In heaven the poor man is at peace whilst in hell the rich man is in torment only separated by a chasm. So hell is not some dark dingy place but like heaven covered by Light but Light that disturbs the one but not the other. We find the rich guy begging to get a message to his brothers because he doesn't want them suffering as he is suffering and will do for the rest of eternity.
    Of course that is an inside looking out story, There are others and some quite different both past and present.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  15. #135

    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    It is written that only God determines by grace who will enter heaven and who will not. That there is a heaven is described by Jesus in the story of the rich and poor men. In heaven the poor man is at peace whilst in hell the rich man is in torment only separated by a chasm. So hell is not some dark dingy place but like heaven covered by Light but Light that disturbs the one but not the other. We find the rich guy begging to get a message to his brothers because he doesn't want them suffering as he is suffering and will do for the rest of eternity.
    Also Jesus made clear we should burn the churches, and any who supported the state was a blasphemer. So were the words of the great lord of all Jesus. Man while he was man but also god. Born of a virgin woman who was also not a virgin. God while man but also man and god. Father and Son but also just one being. A non person except when he was a person. Also a holy ghost, because though he died he was resurrection yet was able to remain a ghost, which was also a ghost but a father and a son too while being all but also none.

    So the word says and the word is the word and without the word or well depending on which word because there are a lot of translations that say different things and basically hundreds of different bibles. Plus all the gospels left out which are also the word because god always knows everything except what Jesus didn't know while he was a man but also a god.

    And will do for the rest of eternity.

  16. #136
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    It is written that only God determines by grace who will enter heaven and who will not
    But so written by others.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  17. #137
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    conon394,

    Couldn't get the gist of that last comment so can you explain?

  18. #138
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    God didn't write it, it was written by others who claim god wrote it through them.

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  19. #139

    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post

    Couldn't get the gist of that last comment so can you explain?
    Noticed you don't have a signature. Have you considered making this it? Right on brand,

  20. #140
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: How could a heaven operate?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Noticed you don't have a signature. Have you considered making this it? Right on brand,
    That's always a good choice. I've always been fond of this tasty tidbit from our dear friend Prodromos,



    It's become something of a meme on the Discord server.

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