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Thread: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

  1. #1

    Default Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    This is my personal take on SSHIP combat balance and medieval 2 in general

    list of files you should backup, first backup both animations folders

    Medival II Total War/mods/SS6.3/data/animations (basically the animations of SSHIP, wherever it is that you installed it)
    Medival II Total War/data/animations

    then backup these text files

    battle_config.xml
    descr_mounts.txt
    descr_projectile.txt
    export_descr_unit.txt

    with that out of the way, now onto the good stuff the features

    EDU, DP, DM and battle_config changes


    • Tweaked the damage of cavalry charges and their melee attack, they will be more devastating against poor quality infantry and when striking in the flanks or rear but less effective against medium quality spearman who have atleast 2 armor upgrades, the charges will also be more realistic, they will penetrate formations deeper and will stop in a slower manner, cavalry will just feel like it has more weight
    • Many medium spear units have had their numbers increased by 20 men, on huge unit scale it's 50 men, some now have an aditional armor upgrade available and a -1 damage but a +6 bonus damage vs cavalry (up from 2 or 4)
    • Some units had their armor reduced while many others had it increased, chivalric knights for example had about 20 armor while Scholarii had about 15 despite being more heavily armored, chivalric knights eventually do catch up with upgrades but atleast intially kataphract units will have the advantage in armor
    • Redone the speed on various cavalry types, Kataphract type of cav - 0.75, European plate armored horses - 0.8, Padded/Barded Horses - 0.88, all unarmored cavalry is 1.0 ie no change
    • Upkeep of units has been changed to SS6.4 model of cheaper faction units and expensive mercenaries, doubled however to match SSHIP economy
    • Two handed units recived large buff to charge damage, they will be able to act as "Assault Infantry" or "Shock Infantry" being able to inflict large amount of damage in short amounts of time but wont be ideal units for prolonged melee combat, still capable just not ideal
    • Removed phalanx from halberd units as the AI is utterly incompetent at using them, they will instead use the halberd like janisaries, their bonus vs cavalry has also increased (generally +6 and some elite +8)
    • Armor Penetration and bonus vs cavalry removed from many two handed and axe units, only remained on units using really long or hooked weapons and maces/hammers
    • Archers/Crossbows are now more effective againt poorly armored units but less effective against heavily armored ones, tweaked damage and accuracy
    • Slower battle pace


    Animations

    This is kinda optional, you can live without it's but still rather important, changes animation to use the older animations, i believe the vanilla to be significantly better for balance, the animations used since SS6.3 makes soldiers blob just way too much, they are too often packed like sardines and battles resemble a mosh pit, with older animations soldiers have a lot more space between each other and battle look way bigger


    Download Link

    https://mega.nz/file/HeRzFKxa#o4ScGc...Q8B5nyxVi6uMa8

    +

    Update >>> https://mega.nz/file/Tex0AYLT#Pd3ws6...ZD1Um9RHWkj9aw


    • Increased the damage of most spear units so as to be more capable against other infantry
    • Increased the amount of armor upgrades available to mercenary types of spearman, armor upgrades are easier to get too
    • Converted defense skill into armor for most spear units allowing them to much better whithstand cavalry charges in schiltron formation, schiltron added to most spear units that didnt have it

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Schiltron in open field with hill advantage

    Schiltron in open field without hill advantage

    9 ranks deep spearman without chiltron in open field




    download the update file, it's called "export_descr_unit.txt", simply put the file in your SSHIP's data folder, it should ask you to overwrite, accept

    Installation

    open the "Combat Overhaul.rar", you will find 2 folders inside, one called "data" and one called "animations"

    Step 1: place the "data" folder inside your SS6.3 folder, or wherever it is that you have installed SSHIP

    Step 2: place the "animations" folder inside "Medival II Total War/data"

    in both cases it should ask your to ovewrite the folder and a bunch of files

    IF however you dont want the old animations then you simply only replace the text files

    battle_config.xml
    descr_mounts.txt
    descr_projectile.txt
    export_descr_unit.txt

    Hope you enjoy my changes, comment, like, share and subscribe ;DDDDDD
    Last edited by Dekhatres; June 09, 2020 at 03:40 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    Subscribed

    I really like the ideas, and the animations restoration.


    Two(three) questions: did you change mercenaries costs in descr_mercenaries.txt? Because you didn't list it as a file to backup

    And what's idea behind removing ap from axes? And behind crossbows being less effective against heavy armour?

    Nevertheless, it sounds very promising

  3. #3

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    no i havent changed mercenaries recruitment cost or any recruitment cost on any unit, only upkeep

    balance reasons mainly, too much armor penetration around trivializing armor a bit too much, historically speaking most axes had small axeheads, were rather light and didnt have the cutting power nor enough mass to deliver significant blunt damage, though there were some axes that were rather heavy and did have the mass to pen armor so i will look and maybe reconsider adding ap to some

    similar reason for crossbows, they werent particularily more effective against heavy armor (til you get to late middle ages with heavy siege crossbows) they still do like 50% more damage than bows, so gameplay wise their use is to take on medium armored units

  4. #4
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    I've had a look at your files because interested by the animations. However, in the files, there's no descr_skeletons.txt file updated.
    So, I'm wondering: are you sure that your animations are fully implemented then?
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    didnt really need all the vanilla animations so i didnt implement them all, just the mtw2_swordsman, mtw2_2hswordsman, mtw2_halberd and spear and maybe a few ones i cant remember, i made sure only the vanilla ones are being used through the EDU xD

    yea i didnt update skeletons cause they crashed everytime i did for some reason, i guess i did it wrong or something, but animations are working corectly so...



    EDIT: oh wait you talking about the txt skeletons not the list file, didnt bother with that one at all
    Last edited by Dekhatres; May 27, 2020 at 03:50 AM.

  6. #6
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    Yes, I'm referring to that one. That's not a big deal unless a movement is not recorded in it. Then, even if present in the relevant animation, the game won't use it. That's how I undestand it
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader


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  7. #7
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    Like Sillygoy, you too did this work of rebalancing the units, but you also modified the animations (which I did for the peasant archers who bug in the original SSHIP) .... Bravo for your work !


    My problem: how will I have to rework the EDU ? Because for the moment, it is impossible to use my submodel + yours or that of Sillygoy without losing my own modifications.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    @ Dekhatres, thx for explaining, it makes sense to me

    @ Kostic, I guess Notepad++ Compare is your friend :/

    Unless Sillygoy and Dekhatres join forces and create some kind of supertweak to rule them all (wait, wrong mod)
    Last edited by Just let me post; May 27, 2020 at 03:16 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    update bump

  10. #10

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    I love it. I'm using just your EDU. Spearmen do their job and don't get swiped like flies, this is how it should be


    The only weird thing is how some spearmen have 0 defense now and (too) much armour.

    If you did that to help them prepare for cav charges, I think it could done better if you increased their mass (vanilla SSHIP values are too low, other inf is perfect, but not for spearmen. You can't just easily rush into spiky formation).

    Anyway, +1

  11. #11

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    you need to use battle_config too, or just set the melee hit rate to 1.0 yourself, that's the setting this balance is optimized for, a faster combat speed version is on the way however which will be for 1.75 melee hit rate, for people who prefer fast infantry combat

    the mass increase fixes the problem of the charge doing too much damage initially however i noticed that after the charge is over, as the knights retreat they cause nearly as much damage as the charge with their melee weapons, the reason is because defense skill does not protect all around, so as the knights retreat they run through your spearman and keep swinging their melee weapon left and right and hitting the spearman in the back, left or right side thus avoiding defense skill and killing many spearman
    with mass increase for spearman knights arent able to run through as easily as before but it still happens

    another thing that mass does is it makes the spearman run through enemy infantry when charging, getting very deep into enemy line and then easily getting killed, i could increase the mass of all units to fix that but then that would also mean a nerf across the board to all cavalry aswell

    unfortunately it seems to me that mass increase is overall causing more troubles than its worth, i do my best to make heavy spears resistent against cavalry but at the same time still trying to keep heavy cavalry devastating against everything else

    i used a mass value of 5 for the test
    Last edited by Dekhatres; June 05, 2020 at 04:14 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    I'm using 1.75 rate already

    I get your point. But when you look into EDU, you can see that mass distribution doesn't make much sense, I mean:

    You get peasants with whooping 0.75 mass
    Javelinmen with 0.8
    Woodsmen with 0.95
    Peasant Archers with 0.7 wth!?

    and

    Sergeant Spearmen with 0.30!
    Armored Sergeants same!
    Pavise Spearmen same!
    Spear Militia same!

    Basically spearmen are crap, someone must've really hated them. They have less than half mass of crap units. How are they supposed to face cav charges?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    the mass is always the third number

    Code:
    soldier          Sergeant_Spearmen, 80, 0, 0.95, 0.30
    not the last one, the last one is for something else, i dont remember what it was about, only that whatever mechanic it was for it doesnt work

    i've downloaded the edu patch file and armored sergeants have a value of 1 mass, not 0.30, i've checked most spearman who are supposed to resist heavy cavalry and they all have above 1 mass, only a few ones have like 0.95 or something like that, but always close to 1

  14. #14

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    Wait...

    Holy this is in EDU

    ; soldier Name of the soldier model to use (from descr_models_battle.txt)
    ; followed by the number of ordinary soldiers in the unit
    ; followed by the number of extras (pigs dogs, elephants, chariots artillery pieces etc attached to the unit)
    ; followed by the collision mass of the men. 1.0 is normal. [Only applies to infantry]

    So yeah it's 4th value

    I stand corrected, and apologize to all ancestors of EDU editors, good thing I don't mod that file

  15. #15

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod



    mistakes are bound to happen when you deal with all these numbers

  16. #16

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    Yeah it's like looking at matrix code sometimes


    I've tested some more and noticed that spearmen are a bit too weak vs other infantry in my opinion. What I mean:

    I confronted some units of spearmen vs melee infantry of similar quality and spearmen get completely wrecked. My expectations would be that of course spearmen would and (gameplay wise) should lose, but not that much. Spears are really good melee weapons after all.

    My idea would be to up spear dmg +1 or 2 and lower cav bonus a bit. They still would be beaten hard by specialized troops, but not struck down like dominoes.

  17. #17
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    Quote Originally Posted by Just let me post View Post
    Holy this is in EDU
    Unfortunately, the description of a few things in the EDU is also misleading so it's better to read the TWC modding sites than that description.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just let me post View Post
    I confronted some units of spearmen vs melee infantry of similar quality and spearmen get completely wrecked. My expectations would be that of course spearmen would and (gameplay wise) should lose, but not that much. Spears are really good melee weapons after all.
    The whole system is indeed botched up and many facets are just for the gameplay.
    Like the big two-handed axes - they existed by they were probably additional: a few strong guys within in a unit of infantry fighting with spears, not a separate unit.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; June 06, 2020 at 11:30 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    noted, i will look into it, will test and see what can be done

    which units did you test ? what were the results

  19. #19

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    armored sergeants vs light men at arms, on average swordsmen suffered 20 casualties while spearman suffered 100

    after increasing spearman's attack from 3 to 6, swordsmen suffered 50 casualties and spearman 100

    so doubling spearman damage still means that 1 swordsman is worth 2 spearman

    EDIT: those tests are kinda not that accurate since i tested it with swordsmen having 150 men, i've redone the test with 200 men for swordsmen too and copied formation numbers, i stopped the test when spearman droped to 170 men, reason is because when one units starts getting a slight advantage it tends to snowball and skew the results, anyway

    result is 23 dead swordsmen and 56 dead spearman, so it's still more or less 1 swordsmen = 2 spearman
    or to be a bit more precise it's 1.2 swordsmen = 2 spearman

    considering however that normally spearman have more men, they cost the same to maintain and a bit more to recruit, they have more armor which is a significantly better defense stat in the long run when units are exhausted

    seems acceptable to me, tell me what you think

    (oh and might have to tone down a bit the bonus vs cavalry if i implement this new change)
    Last edited by Dekhatres; June 06, 2020 at 02:32 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Combat Balance Overhaul minimod

    Lemme show you my tests for the record (we seem to have the same results, I use hard difficulty btw)

    % of men survived:

    spear militia 5% vs axe militia 45%
    spearmen 15% vs light MAA 66%
    pavise spear militia 25% vs light MAA 80%
    spearmen sergeants 8% vs sword mailed foot knights 78%
    spearmen sergeants 3% vs axe mailed foot knights 80%


    Now regarding your changes: you upped the damage higher than I thought Good, I love spearmen so hell yes

    Ratio of 1.2 swordsmen = 2 spearmen seems perfect to me

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