Voter Fraud

[Frostwulf]

Never been any evidence of voter fraud as claimed by Trump. There is however a mountain of evidence for voter suppression by the GOP and its allies.

"As on other subjects, Trump’s “rigged election” rhetoric is merely the unvarnished version of ideas that have long been flourishing in conservative circles. For years, Republicans have used the non-issue of in-person voter fraud to promote laws that systematically disenfranchise minorities, young people, and the poor."
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgo...u-s-elections/

There is evidence, and I have shown this in a few posts before this:
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15922799
But just to cut it down I'll bring the other side. You say there there "Never been any evidence of voter fraud as claimed by Trump." Does this amount equal Trumps claim?
https://www.justfactsdaily.com/false...of-vote-fraud/

In accord with scientific research methods, Just Facts fully accounts for the sampling error in its study, and this is why the results span a wide range of 594,000 to 5.7 million illegal voters.

Furthermore:

In 2013, the Social Security Administration found that 700,000 illegal immigrants were using Social Security numbers with fraudulent birth certificates and 1.8 million had cards that did not match their names.Democrat-led states are stonewalling the commission, and a leader of this resistance is Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe.
He has vetoed a string of bills designed to weed out illegal voters. His appointees also broached the idea of making optional the citizenship question on voter registration forms but abandoned the idea amid strong opposition from Republicans.
Meanwhile, the Public Interest Legal Foundation, a conservative grass-roots group dedicated to eliminating voter fraud, released a report in May that found at least 5,500 noncitizens were registered to vote in Virginia this decade and at least 1,852 had voted and had cast more than 7,000 votes.
The foundation said the numbers are likely just part of a bigger figure because the 5,500 likely disclosed their noncitizenship status when acquiring driver’s licenses.
The Public Interest Legal Foundation said Mr. McAuliffe’s administration repeatedly has blocked its access to records, forcing the group to file lawsuits.

Now we turn to the myth of voter suppression:
https://www.insidesources.com/the-my...r-suppression/

Not to mention that Michigan Democrats set a new turnout record in the state’s primary: 1.6 million votes, nearly 380,000 more than four years ago. If there was voter suppression as Rep. Ocasio-Cortez claims, it failed. Miserably.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/...ppression-myth

It just so happens that two weeks ago the Census Bureau released a report on voter turnout in 2018, which climbed 11 percentage points from the last midterm election, in 2014, and surpassed 50% for the first time since 1982. Moreover, the increased turnout was largely driven by the same minority voters Democrats claim are being disenfranchised. Black turnout grew around 27%, and Hispanic turnout increased about 50%. An analysis of the census data published by the Pew Research Center found that “all major racial and ethnic groups saw historic jumps in voter turnout” last year.None of this comes as news to anyone who pays attention to sober facts instead of inflammatory rhetoric. The black voter turnout rate for the most part has grown steadily since the 1990s. This has occurred notwithstanding an increase in state voter-ID requirements over the same period. In 2012 blacks voted at higher rates than whites nationwide, including in Georgia, which was one of the first states in the country to implement a photo-ID requirement for voting. Ms. Abrams claims that Republicans have been hard at work trying to disenfranchise black voters, but the reality is that black voter registration is outpacing white registration in the Peach State.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/02/...h-to-liberals/

It’s a false narrative belied by the facts, such as the relatively high levels of turnout in a non-presidential year in 2018 in many states, including in Georgia, or the numerous studies that have concluded that voter ID laws are a commonsense reform that does not keep voters out of the voting booth.
One of those studies, released by the National Bureau of Economic Research in 2019, examined 10 years’ worth of turnout data from across the country and concluded that voter ID laws have “no negative effect on registration or turnout overall or for any specific group defined by race, gender, age, or party affiliation.”

These facts are hard to ignore, yet Pravda (CNN, ABC, CBS etc.) have all but ignored this. Fortunately at least MSNBC has mentioned both sides:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-many-...-texass-id-law

There’s no question that some legitimate voters were disenfranchised by the law. But how many? Perhaps a large number — but the truth is, nobody knows.

The article then goes on to write different papers on the subject, and makes this statement:

A recent Government Accountability Office study found that voter ID laws in Tennessee in Kansas depressed turnout by around 2 percentage points each in 2012. But other analyses have found no significant impact. Perhaps the most authoritative report — a 2009 project that aimed to summarize the results of several existing studies — concluded that the available data just doesn’t allow for firm conclusions to be drawn in either direction.

The article then comes to this conclusion:

What’s clear now, though, is that the law deprived some voters — very plausibly a number in the tens of thousands, if not more — of their most basic democratic right. That’s a reason for enormous concern, no matter how many people, or election results, were affected.

But this is not necessarily clear. Other articles have other statements:
https://www.redstate.com/jeffc/2020/...voter-id-laws/

Researchers also found that voter ID laws “do not decrease the participation of ethnic minorities relative to whites.” Well, it looks like the left’s whole “voter suppression” idea has gone out the window. Of course, most people were never buying this argument in the first place. It’s probably the reason why the majority of Americans favor voter ID laws. But it wasn’t just the left’s race-baiting claims that were debunked.

This article also goes on to say:

The study also revealed that requiring voters to show ID at the polls does not effectively curtail voter fraud. After the researchers investigated documented cases of voter fraud in states with voter ID measures, they found that these laws do not prevent certain people from defrauding the electoral system.

The more I get into this subject and the studies, the more I find the article by MSNBC to be in error, as far as how many they believe.

Getting identification is not difficult in any state save for some extreme circumstances. I hope you watch this video below, it might change your perspective on things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs

[Frostwulf]

Pretty much. Republicans have their base locked down, but by itself it's not enough to win elections.

Yet the Republicans have the Presidency and the Senate.

There just aren't enough white supremacists, people who think billionaires should pay fewer if any taxes, people who think mass shootings are false flags orchestrated by Obama to take their guns away, or people who would be happy to have no access to healthcare as long as their neighbor didn't either. If Republicans tried to expand their voter base by adopting positions that were popular with the majority of Americans, they'd just be playing catch up to Democrats and risk losing their base.

The Republicans are winning due to what is popular with the majority of U.S. citizens, that's why they have the Presidency and the Senate.

So they've given up on trying to expand their voter base and now spend all of their efforts in search of new ways to gerrymander, suppress voting, and cheat. It's the only way they can have a say in politics.

But when you look at the facts, it's the Democrats who are screwing up the voting procedures (look at your own source) and have been caught cheating far more then the Republicans. Yes there have been Republicans who have cheated, but they are not close to the amount of deception of the Democrats.

[B. W.]

And yet another Democrat caught voting illegally. This time is is one of the party leaders or I should say one of the leaders in the Democratic Party plantation system:

https://www.breitbart.com/border/202...texas-primary/

[B. W.]

Four democrats in trouble for mail in voter fraud. No wonder democrats want this to be legal, it will keep them out of jail:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...n-voter-fraud/

[Jom]

So, as per your assertion in the OP, which media outlets aren't covering this? Because when I Google one of the fraudsters' names, CNN and NBC both come up as having run stories on it. Is this just going to be a thread where you selectively link instances of voter fraud as long they're coming from Democrats?

[B. W.]

So, as per your assertion in the OP, which media outlets aren't covering this? Because when I Google one of the fraudsters' names, CNN and NBC both come up as having run stories on it. Is this just going to be a thread where you selectively link instances of voter fraud as long they're coming from Democrats?

Go ahead then, post the stories about republican attempts at voter fraud. I sure there are a few of them, but that doesn't justify the massive attempts at voter fraud the Democrats have committed.

Also. the stories you linked must have been on the back pages because I check left-wing media everyday. I've seen a lot of stories claiming that voter fraud isn't an issue. Maybe you should google that.

[Coughdrop addict]

There are two main reasons Republicans are so attached to the myth of massive organized voter fraud:

1-As an excuse to suppress minority voting. Because minorities tend to vote Democratic, Republicans benefit by making it more difficult for them to vote. If they could they would restrict voting to wealthy white men over fifty.

2-It also provides a convenient excuse for loses that absolves them of any responsibility for the loss or need to change things. "I am perfect. My party is perfect. We cannot possibly lose a fair election, so you must have cheated."

[Cyclops]

There are two main reasons Republicans are so attached to the myth of massive organized voter fraud:

1-As an excuse to suppress minority voting. Because minorities tend to vote Democratic, Republicans benefit by making it more difficult for them to vote. If they could they would restrict voting to wealthy white men over fifty.

2-It also provides a convenient excuse for loses that absolves them of any responsibility for the loss or need to change things. "I am perfect. My party is perfect. We cannot possibly lose a fair election, so you must have cheated."

From the outside it looks like the Republicans have inherited in places the old Southern Establishment tactic of keeping African Americans from voting.

I don't believe anyone in US politics who claims all sins for [otherparty]. The Democrats (and their preceding entities) were the party of the Klan and the gerrymander, and given the leaden power of incumbency and patronage I have no doubt there are current members who have benefited from similar corrupt tactics, just as Republicans surely have.

Its a shame the Democrats spent so much time building Jim Crow apparatus. Its almost like they are paying the price for being a racist organisation in the past.

Here's an idea, lets replace Trump with Tim Scott. He seems like a sensible man, symbolically he'd reach out to disenfranchised African Americans and he doesn't seem to be a bumbling doddering out-of-touch member of the elite like Trump and Biden. Democrats and Republicans have already combined to keep Bernie from winning a nomination, why can't they combine again to get this done?

[Jom]

Go ahead then, post the stories about republican attempts at voter fraud. I sure there are a few of them, but that doesn't justify the massive attempts at voter fraud the Democrats have committed. Also. the stories you linked must have been on the back pages because I check left-wing media everyday. I've seen a lot of stories claiming that voter fraud isn't an issue. Maybe you should google that.

No, no this is about the left-wing media not reporting on it. I can understand your wanting to move the goalposts, though. Must be embarrassing claiming something that can be dismissed with one Google search.

There are back pages of websites now? Just because you missed it, doesn't mean it's not happening. Makes me wonder what else you claim is/isn't happening because you can't find it.

Voter fraud not existing and voter fraud not being enough of an issue to swing elections are two very different things. By the way, the story you cited was about Democrats standing against Democrats, so where's the conspiracy to get Republicans out of office?

[Menelik_I]

Let me throw oil in this fire : Mass imigration is a form of voter fraud.

Since you can't be bothered to change the mind, by arguments or goodies, of your voter in his lifetime, 30-50 years, you import new voters that dilute the power of his vote.'

This is the old Imperial Practice of getting new subjects if your old subjects grow a mind of their own.

[Jom]

Let me throw oil in this fire : Mass imigration is a form of voter fraud.

Since you can't be bothered to change the mind, by arguments or goodies, of your voter in his lifetime, 30-50 years, you import new voters that dilute the power of his vote.'

This is the old Imperial Practice of getting new subjects if your old subjects grow a mind of their own.

I doubt "which political party are you likely to vote for if you become a naturalised citizen?" is a question on most immigration documents. This is a complete non-point. Nowhere is importing immigrants to steal elections.

[Menelik_I]

I doubt "which political party are you likely to vote for if you become a naturalised citizen?" is a question on most immigration documents. This is a complete non-point. Nowhere is importing immigrants to steal elections.

Of course it doesn't come written on the form, because you don't need it to be.

This is simple:

1. Favor immigration from countries whose political culture is most aligned to yours, for example Africans and Latin Americans are much left-leaning than Americans in General.
2. Designate your opposition party as the enemy of the immigrant, use racism if needed.

Perfect recipe, and the data shows that immigrants in the USA vote at +70% for the democrats, with similar patterns replicating in the UK and Switzerland. See the studies below:

Migration Background and Voting Behavior in Switzerland: A Socio-Psychological Explanation
individuals with migration background belonging to outgroups have a higher propensity to vote for the Left than natives
OLIVER STRIJBIS Berlin Social Science Center (WZB) Abstract: Research on electoral choices of citizens

Excerpt and link

with migration background has remained largely descriptive. What is missing is a systematic test of theories that can explain individuals with migration background’s voting behavior. This article provides such a test on the basis of a post-electoral survey from the 2011 Swiss general election. It is the first study on the electoral behavior of the first and second generation in Switzerland. And it shows that specific migration background impacts considerably on vote choice. In particular, individuals with migration background belonging to outgroups have a higher propensity to vote for the Left than natives. This relationship is partly explained by the party identifications adopted by the citizens with migration background belonging to outgroups. KEYWORDS: Migration, Elections, Switzerland, Identity, Voting behavior https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/spsr.12136

Surge in immigrant Conservative voters, but most vote Labour In the general election of 2013, over 60 per cent of voters with an immigrant background from Africa, Asia and Latin America voted for centre-left parties, with the Labour Party being the most popular.

except and link

This share was even higher in earlier municipal elections. If we compare the general election in 2013 with the municipal elections in 2011, support for the Conservative Party among this group of immigrants has more than doubled. The voting pattern of those with a European immigrant background is more similar to other Norwegian voters, but support for Labour is also extensive among this group. https://www.ssb.no/en/valg/artikler-...ts=14a61cadf08

Party affiliation among immigrants by state, 70-60% of them affiliated to Democrats, :https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/party-affiliation/by/state/among/immigrant-status/immigrants/


Now you can tell me that this means nothing and has no electoral impact, well the immigrant vote in the USA has doubled in 20 years, account now for 10% of the vote, with +70% voting dems, it means Democrats gained 7% of the vote advantage which cannot easily be switched to Republicans compared to native Americans.

https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic...oters-in-2020/

This would have more impact if the USA didn't have a electoral college and if these voters were not concentrated in California, but he potential is there and real, they acknowledge it



Naturalized citizens — who share the full legal rights of natural-born citizens, except for the ability to become president —cast more than 8% of the ballots in the 2018 midterm elections, almost double their share in the 1996 presidential contest, according to U.S. Census Bureau estimates.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-10-23/trump-attacks-immigrants-new-naturalized-citizen-voter-registration

Here’s a close look at how immigrant voters could affect the 2016 U.S. election

As you’d imagine, naturalized citizens today are politically quite different from those the United States has seen in the past. As recently as the 1970s, naturalized citizens used to “look” a lot like the native-born population; they were roughly the same race, ethnicity, party and ideology.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...2016-election/

Now do you have idea of the number of years and resources needed to to gain 7% of the electoral advantage in the USA ? The Conservative victory of Reagen in 1980 started with work in the Goldwater run in the 60, the Democrat triumph in the 1990 and 2010 was work started also 20 years before.

Can we have a rational discussion about this ?

The same principle can be used to turn the USA more right wing via mass immigration from Europeans, with some tweeks to favor people with right-wing tendencies.

[Abdülmecid I]

This is simple:

1. Favor immigration from countries whose political culture is most aligned to yours, for example Africans and Latin Americans are much left-leaning than Americans in General.

Actually, the complete opposite is true. Immigrants to the United States are generally more conservative than the average population. That's not very surprising, considering the demographic and social structure of their countries of origin. They are more rural, less urbanised, poorer, less educated and definitely more religious, especially Africa and Latin America. The same observation ironically applies for black citizens, as well. I suspect that popular resistence to controversial issues like abortion secular education will rely even more on the future on the support of immigrants and their descendants. Had the Republican leadership been smarter, they would have completely isolated the white supremacists on their ranks, by focusing more on civic nationalism and the moral values of traditional conservatism. Even from a cynical perspective, their losses from the votes of xenophobes (who wouldn't vote for the Democrats, anyway) would be easily neutralised by Hispanic and African newcomers, who would no more feel alienated from the ethnic intolerants propagated by certain extremists, like the alt-right brigade.

[Menelik_I]

All your links shows that they are "Socially more conservative", therefore are potential GOP voters my post shows that they are voting for Democrats more than 70% of the time.

But lets take your bait, what does the GOP has to actually offer these immigrants to gain their votes that they can't get from Democrats ?

TLDR: Democratic Welfare is a short term benefit the Republicans can't match, while the Cost of Democratic Social Policies are long term, thus immigrant Social Conservative values are electorally useless to Republicans.

Imagine the GOP get rid of the Xenophobe, the problem is that even if there exist a "untapped Potential" due to the "Christian Social more conservative" immigrant population, the Economic and welfare policies of the Democrats are much appealing to immigrants in the short-term since the cost of the Liberal Social Policies are long term and uncertain. Lets take a Somali immigrant to Mineapolis, even if Christian , for example, sure He might be as anti-LGBT as a Republican but the Welfare check is going to be received now by voting democrat and there is merely a chance, maybe 20%, that one of his daughter might turn trans or have an abortion, in short adopt total liberal values, in 10-20 years.
Data shows that immigrants use more welfare:

About 51% of immigrant-led households receive at least one kind of welfare benefit, including Medicaid, food stamps, school lunches and housing assistance, compared to 30% for native-led households, according to the report from the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that advocates for lower levels of immigration.

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/02/repo...n-welfare.html

The last problem is that the immigrants are indoctrinated to hate the GOP as the party of the racists, and unless the GOP can change by taking over or bankrupting the Liberal media, which they are unable to do now despite having working on it since the 1980s, it is a lost cause.

[/LIST]

Actually, the complete opposite is true. Immigrants to the United States are generally more conservative than the average population. That's not very surprising, considering the demographic and social structure of their countries of origin. They are more rural, less urbanised, poorer, less educated and definitely more religious, especially Africa and Latin America. The same observation ironically applies for black citizens, as well. I suspect that popular resistence to controversial issues like abortion secular education will rely even more on the future on the support of immigrants and their descendants. Had the Republican leadership been smarter, they would have completely isolated the white supremacists on their ranks, by focusing more on civic nationalism and the moral values of traditional conservatism. Even from a cynical perspective, their losses from the votes of xenophobes (who wouldn't vote for the Democrats, anyway) would be easily neutralised by Hispanic and African newcomers, who would no more feel alienated from the ethnic intolerants propagated by certain extremists, like the alt-right brigade.

[Frostwulf]

There are two main reasons Republicans are so attached to the myth of massive organized voter fraud:

1-As an excuse to suppress minority voting. Because minorities tend to vote Democratic, Republicans benefit by making it more difficult for them to vote. If they could they would restrict voting to wealthy white men over fifty.

2-It also provides a convenient excuse for loses that absolves them of any responsibility for the loss or need to change things. "I am perfect. My party is perfect. We cannot possibly lose a fair election, so you must have cheated."

I'm not going to say all Democrats because I know Democrats who are rational and actually look at the facts. There are the other kind of Democrats who ignore the facts and rational thought, which one are you?

1. Where is your proof of this? Oh yea, it's just baseless emotion and demonizing of people you don't even know. But the facts (yes I know, you have no interest in the facts, but others do) show a completely different story. There is no effort from the Republican party to suppress votes. The Democrat party on the other hand has been proven multiple times (and yes with those pesky things call facts) that they do try and sometimes succeed in suppressing votes and cheating at voting.

2 . Really? You forget Hillary Clinton so soon? Stacy Abrams perhaps?

If your a Republican troll, please stop and have a real conversation. If this is how you really think, you might need to reassess your thought process.

[Abdülmecid I]

TLDR: Democratic Welfare is a short term benefit the Republicans can't match, while the Cost of Democratic Social Policies are long term, thus immigrant Social Conservative values are electorally useless to Republicans.

So, naturalised immigrants appreciate the social welfare policies of the Democrats. No objections on that, but that's completely irrelevant to your earlier argument that newcomers from Latin America and Africa were more left-leaning than the average native. In fact, the opposite was true as my data demonstrated. Immigrants approve of moderate "wealth redistribution", because they, together with the poorer segments of the American society, benefit the most from such policies, not because they are indoctrinated with socialist principles in their home countries. On the other hand, if the Republicans concentrated their attention more on Christian and generally conservative values, instead of getting obsessed with racial purity, they could attract more votes, from those who felt alienated from the progressive wing of the Democratic party.

The last problem is that the immigrants are indoctrinated to hate the GOP as the party of the racists, and unless the GOP can change by taking over or bankrupting the Liberal media, which they are unable to do now despite having working on it since the 1980s, it is a lost cause.

Citation needed for that extraordinary claim. The Republican party is not dominated by racists, but them tolerating extremists calling for supremacism and closed borders is also a fact. Several loyal Republicans and determined conservatives have voiced their concern over the relatively recent cooperation between their favourite party and radical tribalism, at the expense of the traditional civic nationalism. In my opinion, this approach is short-sighted and is going to cost the Republicans severely in the long term, unless they finally realise the new circumstances that decide the outcome of the elections.

[Coughdrop addict]

I'm not going to say all Democrats because I know Democrats who are rational and actually look at the facts. There are the other kind of Democrats who ignore the facts and rational thought, which one are you?

1. Where is your proof of this? Oh yea, it's just baseless emotion and demonizing of people you don't even know. But the facts (yes I know, you have no interest in the facts, but others do) show a completely different story. There is no effort from the Republican party to suppress votes. The Democrat party on the other hand has been proven multiple times (and yes with those pesky things call facts) that they do try and sometimes succeed in suppressing votes and cheating at voting.

2 . Really? You forget Hillary Clinton so soon? Stacy Abrams perhaps?

If your a Republican troll, please stop and have a real conversation. If this is how you really think, you might need to reassess your thought process.

Yes, there are well-documented instances of Republicans engaging in organized voter suppression.

From 2018 alone:

North Carolina’s Election Fiasco Is About Voter Suppression, Not Voter Fraud

North Carolina voting issues are in the spotlight once again, thanks to swirling questions around the use of absentee ballots in the 9th Congressional district.

Last week, the North Carolina State Board of Elections voted unanimously not to certify the 9th District’s U.S. House race — in which Republican Mark Harris leads Democrat Dan McCready by a slim margin — because of irregularities in the district’s absentee ballots.

In particular, fewer ballots were returned in the 9^th District than in the rest of the state. In addition, out of the 9^th District ballots that were returned, there was a higher rate of ballots that were spoiled — and thus uncounted — than in other districts, the Brennan Center’s analysis confirms. To top it off, these discrepancies appear to have disproportionately affected low-income communities.
At least three voters in the 9th District have provided affidavits stating that individuals came door-to-door to collect mailed ballots, according to reports in the New York Times. These unknown visitors allegedly told the voters that they would deliver their ballots. One voter, Datesha Montgomery, reported that she voted only for school board members and sheriff, but the woman who collected her ballot said that “she would finish it herself.” This is illegal under North Carolina law. If voters are getting help with the ballot delivery, it can only be from certain direct family members (unless one of the special rules for nursing home residents is applicable).

Republican Voter Suppression Efforts Are Targeting Minorities, Journalist Says

Since the 2010 elections, 24 states have implemented new restrictions on voting. Alabama now requires a photo ID to cast a ballot. Other states such as Ohio and Georgia have enacted "use it or lose it" laws, which strike voters from registration rolls if they have not participated in an election within a prescribed period of time.

The Georgia Governor’s Race Has Brought Voter Suppression Into Full View

That labyrinth has been under construction for years. Kemp has embarked on what his opponents and critics say is a series of naked attempts to constrict the electorate. Since 2010, his office reports that it has purged upwards of 1.4 million voters from the rolls, including more than 660,000 Georgians in 2017 and almost 90,000 this year. Many of those voters found their registration canceled because they had not voted in the previous election. Additionally, under an “exact match” law passed by the state legislature that requires handwritten voter registrations to be identical to personal documents, 53,000 people had their registrations moved to “pending” status because of typos or other errors before a district court enjoined the policy. More than 80 percent of those registrations belonged to black voters.

By the way, there is no "Democrat party". Just as you aren't part of the "Repub party". Changing around someone's name to make it an insult makes you look like a child.

So, naturalised immigrants appreciate the social welfare policies of the Democrats. No objections on that, but that's completely irrelevant to your earlier argument that newcomers from Latin America and Africa were more left-leaning than the average native. In fact, the opposite was true as my data demonstrated. Immigrants approve of moderate "wealth redistribution", because they, together with the poorer segments of the American society, benefit the most from such policies, not because they are indoctrinated with socialist principles in their home countries. On the other hand, if the Republicans concentrated their attention more on Christian and generally conservative values, instead of getting obsessed with racial purity, they could attract more votes, from those who felt alienated from the progressive wing of the Democratic party.

Citation needed for that extraordinary claim. The Republican party is not dominated by racists, but them tolerating extremists calling for supremacism and closed borders is also a fact. Several loyal Republicans and determined conservatives have voiced their concern over the relatively recent cooperation between their favourite party and radical tribalism, at the expense of the traditional civic nationalism. In my opinion, this approach is short-sighted and is going to cost the Republicans severely in the long term, unless they finally realise the new circumstances that decide the outcome of the elections.

I think at this point Republicans have completely given up on attracting anything but the white supremacist vote, and so now have directed all of their efforts to cheating and voter suppression. Anything to stay in office and get the tax rates for their billionaire owners as low as possible, preferably to zero.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I doubt "which political party are you likely to vote for if you become a naturalised citizen?" is a question on most immigration documents. This is a complete non-point. Nowhere is importing immigrants to steal elections.

This is a reasonable position until you subject it to even the slightest scrutiny. I know you're not American but since I am and as such the entirety of all world politics must be viewed through my lense, let me present the following argument.

Democrats screech that voter ID laws are racist. Apparently they believe black Americans in particular are too stupid to acquire IDs. This is not only racist, but wrong.

Secondly, please provide your justification as to why non-citizen, illegal immigrants in a country should be afforded the right to vote?

Thirdly, please disprove the commonly accepted and actualized and realized reality whereby people with immigration status problems would prefer to vote for democrats? How is this not just an obvious attempt to not only bribe people, but to give those same bribed people the right to vote?

[Jom]

This is a reasonable position until you subject it to even the slightest scrutiny. I know you're not American but since I am and as such the entirety of all world politics must be viewed through my lense, let me present the following argument.

Democrats screech that voter ID laws are racist. Apparently they believe black Americans in particular are too stupid to acquire IDs. This is not only racist, but wrong.

Secondly, please provide your justification as to why non-citizen, illegal immigrants in a country should be afforded the right to vote?

Thirdly, please disprove the commonly accepted and actualized and realized reality whereby people with immigration status problems would prefer to vote for democrats? How is this not just an obvious attempt to not only bribe people, but to give those same bribed people the right to vote?

I didn't say illegals - I said naturalised citizens.

[irontaino]

This is a reasonable position until you subject it to even the slightest scrutiny. I know you're not American but since I am and as such the entirety of all world politics must be viewed through my lense, let me present the following argument.

Democrats screech that voter ID laws are racist. Apparently they believe black Americans in particular are too stupid to acquire IDs. This is not only racist, but wrong.

This you?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: