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Thread: Voter Fraud

  1. #21
    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
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    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    Where do you find people on the left claiming that republicans or russians are literally rigging the vote totals or committing election fraud? Nobody has claimed that outside of some conspiracy theorists that are far from the mainstream.

    Republicans want to suppress minority vote, this isn't even in question.
    Leftists want this republicans want that. It's almost as if they're all one person.

    People who are power hungry come in all political flavours. The political ideology is just a means to an end to be exploited. Historically, globally, people from every political background have tried to manipulate votes through all sorts of different ways. The moment you start seeing it all as a problem with an ideology you don't like, you get stuck unable to see forest for the trees. You become part of the problem.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  2. #22

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    Where do you find people on the left claiming that republicans or russians are literally rigging the vote totals or committing election fraud? Nobody has claimed that outside of some conspiracy theorists that are far from the mainstream.

    Republicans want to suppress minority vote, this isn't even in question.
    I said cheat, not that Putin himself stuffed the ballots.

    Voter ID is just common sense voting security.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  3. #23
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Ballot harvesting at work. What could possibly go wrong?

    https://www.redstate.com/mirandamora...entee-ballots/

    And what possible difference could over 10,000 illegal votes in one city make, especially if it's a city that voted over 95% Democrat?

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...stered-voters/
    Last edited by B. W.; May 29, 2020 at 03:33 PM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    Voter ID is just common sense voting security.
    That's not even a response to what he said. He said "Republicans want to suppress minority vote", and he seems to be right about that regardless if voter ID is "common sense" or not.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  5. #25
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    That's not even a response to what he said. He said "Republicans want to suppress minority vote", and he seems to be right about that regardless if voter ID is "common sense" or not.
    Voter ID laws don't seem to have a negligible effect on the turnout of legal voters. In some cases, such as native American reservations there has been an increase in voter turnout. What the ID laws do is prevent illegal voting:

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/polq.12868

  6. #26

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    That's not even a response to what he said. He said "Republicans want to suppress minority vote", and he seems to be right about that regardless if voter ID is "common sense" or not.
    It was in response to my comment about voter ID, no? If it wasn't meant to disagree, then sure.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    That's not even a response to what he said. He said "Republicans want to suppress minority vote", and he seems to be right about that regardless if voter ID is "common sense" or not.
    There are problems with this mentality, especially when it is wrong.
    https://abc11.com/voter-id-rule-rale...na-nc/5948534/
    All three judges were democrats and are being challenged for breaking the rules:
    "Judges are explicitly prohibited from doing this, according to their own rules," Civitas President Donald Bryson asserts in a statement sent to ABC11. "Voters already feel like their voice at the ballot box has been nullified by these judges, now they know they did not even get the fair hearing that the law demands. We urge the North Carolina Judicial Standards Commission to take immediate action."

    Bryson said the statements attributed to the judges date back to the 2018 Election, when as judicial candidates both Hampson and Arrowood answered questionnaires from the People's Alliance PAC. That election also included four proposed constitutional amendments, including requiring a photo-ID to vote.

    "I intend to vote against the Voter ID and Judicial Vacancy amendments," Arrowood wrote.

    "I intend to vote no on each of the proposed amendments." Hampson answered.

    Hampson and Arrowood were members of a three-judge panel that unanimously issued an injunction on the state's voter ID law, pending a final decision.
    Further more does this really sound very difficult to do?:
    Moore noted that the law provides for free state-issued IDs and accepts a broad range of qualifying IDs including student IDs, drivers' licenses, passports, military and veteran IDs, voter and state employee cards and Native American tribal cards. The law accommodates religious objectors and even allows drivers' licenses from other states to qualify in some circumstances.
    Why wasn't this last piece of information included in the link you provided?
    Lastly contrary to what some seem to think, minorities in this country are quite capable. I know that seems to go against the democrat narrative, but here see for yourself. I hope you watch this all the way through.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs
    Racism especially in this country is idiotic, and I do agree with the woman near the end of this video, it is racism.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwulf View Post
    There are problems with this mentality, especially when it is wrong.
    Except it's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwulf View Post
    All three judges were democrats and are being challenged for breaking the rules
    By a conservative think tank, none the less. Why wasn't this last piece of information included in the link you provided?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwulf View Post
    Further more does this really sound very difficult to do?:

    Lastly contrary to what some seem to think, minorities in this country are quite capable. I know that seems to go against the democrat narrative, but here see for yourself. I hope you watch this all the way through.
    Ah, the old "soft bigotry of low expectations" meme; I guess I am the racist for thinking politicians would use laws to discourage voting, who knew?! In all seriousness though, don't you think that meme is a little passť by this point?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Ah, the old "soft bigotry of low expectations" meme; I guess I am the racist for thinking politicians would use laws to discourage voting, who knew?! In all seriousness though, don't you think that meme is a little passť by this point?
    It's only been a hundred years since we've passed a law to encourage voting. Don't get ahead of yourself.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    Leftists: "Trump won the election because he cheated! Russia cheated! Repubs want voter IDs so they can cheat!"

    Also leftists: "voter fraud doesn't exist lmao"
    These two statements don't contradict each other.

    "lmao"

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    I said cheat, not that Putin himself stuffed the ballots.

    Voter ID is just common sense voting security.
    If only we had Voter ID, we might've prevented a thousand fraudulent votes over the last 20-30 years.

    Sukiyama: But wouldn't that disenfranchise millions of minority voters and decrease voter turnout?

    Who cares?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    They're not meant to contradict each other. Duh.

    What's wrong, you afraid extra security will inconvenience people? One fraudulent vote is one too many. If you need ID to buy cigarettes, buck up baby.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    They're not meant to contradict each other. Duh.
    They paint little contrast between each other.

    What's wrong, you afraid extra security will inconvenience people? One fraudulent vote is one too many. If you need ID to buy cigarettes, buck up baby.
    Yes. Especially when that "extra security" is an argument specifically made to hurt the minority vote. Let me know when access to cigarettes is essential to an electoral democracy.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    How's that?

    Sounds to me like you don't trust gov't to handle voters fairly. Sorry, these laws are for the safety of everyone, not just some dude getting inconvenienced because he's too dumb to get an ID. Cigarettes don't undermine electoral democracy, voter fraud does.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Lol. These laws aren't for "the safety of everyone". They are designed specifically to hurt the minority vote. 10% of the country doesn't have identification and even if they gave free IDs out, it still costs money in either transportation or identity verification to acquire them. Neither cigarettes nor voter fraud hurt electoral democracy, because the latter is near non-existent. Voter suppression, of which Voter ID laws are a part of, does hurt democracy. But hey, if you want to drink the kool-aid, go ahead. Buy with emotion, and justify the decision afterwards, whatever helps you feel smart and reasonable.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    The frequency at which it happens is not relevant to the task at hand, only that it does. It's not up to the gov't to facilitate rights, it's on the US citizens prove they are eligible to exercise them. Nobody needs to vote, if they wish to do so they better be willing to jump through whichever hoops it entails.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Enacting any regulation or limit on any citizen right requires a cost-benefit analysis. If voter impersonation is not even a problem, then there is no reasonable cause to enact voter id laws. By your logic, we can stretch these "hoops" to literacy tests, citizenship questions, tests of loyalty, or perhaps even a service requirement.

    Of course none of this is relevant, as election security is not the goal of voter id laws. Helping them gain an advantage in election is the real objective.

  17. #37
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    We're always hearing that America should be more like Europe. Virtually every country in Europe has voter ID laws in place. Just saying.
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    We're always hearing that America should be more like Europe. Virtually every country in Europe has voter ID laws in place. Just saying.
    I don't mind bi-partisan voting reform. But if Republicans want Voter ID, then I want more absentee and mail-in voting. But surprisingly, Republicans are not consistent on this issue.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Enacting any regulation or limit on any citizen right requires a cost-benefit analysis. If voter impersonation is not even a problem, then there is no reasonable cause to enact voter id laws. By your logic, we can stretch these "hoops" to literacy tests, citizenship questions, tests of loyalty, or perhaps even a service requirement.

    Of course none of this is relevant, as election security is not the goal of voter id laws. Helping them gain an advantage in election is the real objective.
    Slippery slope. That is why I said common sense voting security. Nobody is trying to take your voting rights away, we're trying to make safe, representative elections to secure the nation and a future for our children.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Voter Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    Slippery slope. That is why I said common sense voting security. Nobody is trying to take your voting rights away, we're trying to make safe, representative elections to secure the nation and a future for our children.
    Voter ID hurts voting access for millions, by eliminating a problem that is statistically nonexistent. And the GOP is regularly engaged in voting suppression efforts, Voter ID is just one part of that campaign. It provides little benefit while disenfranchising millions.

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