Historical Who Am I Riddles

[Kilo11]

Hey Geg! Lovely to see you, as always!

Unfortunately, much of your analysis is off. The first line is not about being a "founder". Look at the word "Father" though. Is there anything about that that is perhaps leading in some way? In the second line, why would I talk about grace, if it was a military man? What is grace about? Third line you have interpreted correctly And for the fourth line, the man himself wrote the book; it is not something that was written about him later (because if it was that, it could refer to anyone). With that dump of hints, let's see if anyone has thoughts. I imagine both Cookie and Derc might be able to figure this one out quickly, and probably also Cope, given the interests and competences of those crews.

[Cookiegod]

Hm.

Given that you reference Derc and me, that could be a range of things. Except I see almost zero overlap in interests between cope and Derc, so I kinda struggle.

I'm ruling out vikings because of grace, antiquity because I've never ever seen cope express any interest in it, niche Muslim rulers because honestly that's just me, the combo grace and war had me think of several enlightenment rulers, like Frederick the Great (except Berlin wasn't destroyed even though it was occupied by the Russians in Fredericks lifetime), or Kosciuszko (except I have never ever seen Derc express any interest in the American revolution, so let's throw those guys out as well), except I have never seen , but most importantly, the "unwashed" part is what I'm having trouble with. It's definitely a hint, I just can't make any sense of it. Setting aside the fact that personal hygiene was always a thing for artistic license, in the medieval context that stereotype applies to everyone, in the modern context it'd be politically incorrect regarding natives, so this throws us back to antiquity. Dammit. I can't even guess, but the riddle is good!

[Kilo11]

The reference to Cope was not about an interest in a time period, but rather in certain types of thought, and areas of inquiry.

To keep all the riddle on the last page, here it is again. I am also milling over an additional stanza, which I will add later if it seems needed.

---

I was one of the greatest Fathers, yet father to none.
From grace to war, every argument I have won.
And when the unwashed destroyed my people's home,
I created a new one, captured in a tome.

[Cookiegod]

Cato then.

[Kilo11]

Not sure which Cato you are talking about (my guess would be the elder though). But either way, you are off by a few centuries. Right general area geographically, but a touch later. And again, I think one of the best hints is located in a detail of the first line.

[Abdülmecid I]

The reference to fatherhood makes me think of the Christian Church's fathers. The hints about destruction and a few centuries later than Cato point towards late Antiquity. I initially thought of Isidore of Seville, because you had chosen a Spanish cleric earlier in the riddle thread, but Augustine of Hippo seems more suitable. He wrote the City of God and he was contemporary to the sack of Rome by the Visigoths. Augustine was also pretty argumentative...

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Oh that is a good catch. Definitely sounds like an early Christian religious leader if you interpret the "father" line that way

[Cookiegod]

Yeah I thought Augustine of Hippo too right at the beginning, he was the only saint I considered at the time, especially given Kilo's hint at a point, except that Hippo was unsuccesfully besieged but not taken at the time of Augustines death. So his home wasn't destroyed and I dropped it.

But I just remembered that Ambrose of Milan might also be a good match. Wasn't he from the Rhineland originally? Definitely one of those from the patristic age, and if he's the greatest it's gotta be one of those two.

Ambrose is also a good fit because of the thing with ethics in war and his excommunication of emperor Theodosius because of the sack of Thessalonike, so that'd certainly be up Kilo's sleeve. But Augustine also talks about just war or something.

[Kilo11]

It was indeed Augustine. So the floor is Abdül's.

Yeah I thought Augustine of Hippo too right at the beginning, he was the only saint I considered at the time, especially given Kilo's hint at a point, except that Hippo was unsuccesfully besieged but not taken at the time of Augustines death. So his home wasn't destroyed and I dropped it.

The "destroyed my people's home" bit refers to the sack of Rome, as that was a momentous thing in Augustine's life, and he was very much ethnically Roman, making Rome his "home" in a way as well.

The last line is then indeed about the City of God, as Augustine partly wrote that as a way to create a spiritual home for his people which could not be touched by earthly damages. Or some such nonsense.

But I just remembered that Ambrose of Milan might also be a good match. Wasn't he from the Rhineland originally? Definitely one of those from the patristic age, and if he's the greatest it's gotta be one of those two.

Ambrose is also a good fit because of the thing with ethics in war and his excommunication of emperor Theodosius because of the sack of Thessalonike, so that'd certainly be up Kilo's sleeve. But Augustine also talks about just war or something.

Are you kidding Cookie?! Augustine is the founder of the Western Just War tradition. He "also talks about just war or something"? Pshhh.

But anyway, it is Abdül's right, privilege, and most holy duty to give us a good riddle!

[Abdülmecid I]

Thansks Kilo! The next one is somewhat of a combination between the last two figures.

Born in an isolated country, inside an isolated continent.
I studied and read, gained a doctorate, first of my kind in that obscure land.
But alas! I lived in an era of turmoil, revolution, war and violence!
What hope could I ever have against those victorious generals, those globally famous liberators, me a grim doctor.
That's what they said, smiling and looking down on that destitute student of theology and law.

Well, they are not laughing now, are they?
The one in the north-east melt like French sugar on the rain.
France, that's where the liberator of three separate countries ran away crying.
That sorry admiral fled too, getting eaten for breakfast by the Turks.
And the poster boy of the revolt quit as well, saving himself from the humiliation of exile by a lethal virus.
As for the great general on the south, that clown was a bigger loser than his nameshake cruiser,
him and his miserable band of invaders getting quickly dispatched by my native troops.

In my native land, I survived and prospered.
I ruled her with lovingly and mercilessly for several decades, dying peacefully on my bed.
Something I cannot say for the opposition...
It was for a good cause, though, their books decorating the public libraries for the future doctors of my isolated country.
Those equipped with a thirst for knowledge, a vision for democracy and a rather sanguinary disposition.

Who am I?

[ggggtotalwarrior]

yeah i got nothing

[Kilo11]

I must admit that I have not looked at this much, but given that it's been like 10 days since posting, would you mind dropping some little hint, Abdül?

[Abdülmecid I]

He's a pretty obscure historical personality, but the other references to much more famous figure will help you detect the geographical and chronological context.

As some extra hints, he reigned in the country where the Society had prospered and he established a tradition of authoritarianism that culminated into some of the most picturesque strongmen of the continent with disastrus results for the local population.

[Kilo11]

So, some of the details had me thinking of Che Guevara. But I don't think that can be right. At any rate though, the "isolated country in an isolated continent" makes me think the guy must be from Bolivia or Paraguay. Other than that, I still got nothing.

[Abdülmecid I]

You found the country! Once you find the period, the rest will be easy. Definitely not Che Guevara, though. Keep also in mind that the Doctor was involved in the same events, which one of the latest quizes of this thread concerned.

Edit: The most important hint is that he was successful. Meaning that he died in the zenith of his power from old age. Unlike the other individuals mentioned in the gloating "poem" and the domestic opposition (no deathbeds, but walls riddled with bullets for them).

[Cookiegod]

José Gaspar Rodríguez de Francia

[Abdülmecid I]

Francia is correct! Not a soldier, unlike the vast majority of the Liberators, but he managed to maintain Paraguay's independence, which he governed authoritatively until his death in 1840. The domestic opposition, like Fulgencio Yegros, ended up executed. The rest of the liberators were not so lucky. Sucre (also sugar in French) was assassinated, Bolivar resigned and made plans for exile and Cochrane left South America for Greece, where he performed disappointingly against the Ottomans. Finally, Belgrano, one of Argentina's heroes, was repulsed by the Paraguayans, when he attempted to conquer the country. The ship is the cruiser Belgrano, notorious for its sinking during the Falklands war.

[Cookiegod]

I come from an ancient throne,
My beasts did make enemies tremble,
At first only a hostage,
I shattered the foe,
and shattered myself,
like Alexander,
with that ancient walled city,
gazing down upon my shattered corpse
and with my demise,
so too did it fall,
the entire hope of the tribe.

Who am I?

[Cookiegod]

Hint: When I'm saying "Alexander" I don't mean THAT Alexander, but another one. And by "like" I mean he failed in the same region.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Thief.