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Thread: [VoNC] Akar

  1. #1
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default [VoNC] Akar

    I'll pick this up, then.

    Akar appears to have allowed Commodus to be elected Magistrate, knowing he did not meet the requirements. He let this state of events persist for 2 weeks before it was raised by another member, and only after was Commodus subsequently removed and new elections organised.

    Relevant screenshots:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Caligula made an original VoNC and then withdrew it after little more than an hour, but that's another matter and thus I've taken it up with the Consul. You're welcome.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    And yet we wish to persist with our Constitution and Officer system. Who can have any faith in this big "post" repository for Caligula's own enjoyment? Have fun about me on Discord.
    Last edited by Frunk; May 17, 2020 at 08:55 AM.
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    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    As you said in other thread, utterly pathetic indeed.

    Very disappointed by some people in the curia today.

    Fun is fine, when it is in relevant places, and especially when it doesnt interfere with some basic day-to-day duties and rules.

  3. #3
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by King Athelstan View Post
    The Censors were appointed by me [...]


    So it looks like a Censor can be VoNC'd. However, as the Consul appointed them and they fall under the Consuls wing per say, I believe the Consul should stand applicable for what a Censor does.

    For what it's worth, I clarify that this VoNC is, currently, only naming Akar. I'll let King Athelstan decide what he would or will do if this is to go to vote and be successful.
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    I don't typically put much stock in off-site evidence; there are limits to how far the Constitution, ToS or 'citizenship standards' etc can apply, and I'm usually one to draw the line at this site and its officially run satellites, otherwise things get messy. What 'Akaw' and 'Jolly Swagman' - whoever they are - get up to on Discord is none of my business, and none of TWC's in my opinion. As an unelected Censor/Curial Assistant, it is not for him to 'allow' anyone to be elected; it is the responsibility of the Curator to check these things. But if he deliberately and knowingly manipulated a vote to get someone elected whom he knew was ineligible, and/or then either lied about or withheld this information (even though the actual negligence here would be on the part of the Curator), then that is an abuse of office. If it is true, then I trust Akar would do the honourable thing and resign. Would be a shame if so, he's otherwise been doing a solid job.

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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Akar's server is open to anyone, even without a discord account. If the evidence is there or not, it may be interesting for the informed to review personally.

  6. #6
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitai de Bodemloze View Post
    What 'Akaw' and 'Jolly Swagman' - whoever they are - get up to on Discord is none of my business
    Neither Akar nor Cope have denied, nor have they confirmed, owning those names and posting those messages.
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    Hitai de Bodemloze's Avatar 避世絕俗
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by Frunk View Post
    Neither Akar nor Cope have denied, nor have they confirmed, owning those names and posting those messages.
    Yes, it is not great evidence when the accused can simply say 'nope, that wasn't me', and then there's nothing we can do about it. Nor when anyone could go onto Discord, change their name to 'Akar', type: "Yes, it's true, I colluded to wilfully subvert the Constitution", screenshot it and post it here as evidence against him. Hence why I don't like to rely on these things.

    But the allegation has been made and regardless of how suspect the evidence is - and the rather tasteless way in which Caligula has brought it to light -, I trust Akar will come forward with the truth of the matter. I hope that it is, as Caligula has admitted, just a poor attempt at a practical joke that has gotten out of hand, and that we can forget about it and move on. It leaves KA kind of in the lurch, as he should have been the one to vet Commodus' eligibility before the appointment was made official, but as has been stated elsewhere, it's a relatively minor oversight in the grand scheme of things, and something I doubt would shake anyone's confidence in him.

  8. #8
    Cookiegod's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by Frunk View Post
    Neither Akar nor Cope have denied, nor have they confirmed, owning those names and posting those messages.
    They didn't to protect me. I faked the evidence.

  9. #9
    Turkafinwë's Avatar The Sick Baby of TWC
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    What a fuss about nothing really. A joke (whether you find it distasteful or not) which ruffles so many feathers is hilariously ridiculous in its own right especially when we're talking about Akar, someone who does much for this site. No fault lies with Akar.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Historically we ignore off site shenanigans, as they pertain to that current platform rather than TWC itself.

    Given that the problem appears to be resolved by this point I'm inclined to leave things as they are, despite thinking that Commodus wasn't ready quite yet at the time of the vote for such a serious responsibility.

    edit:

    I should add, Akar has been doing a fantastic job and taking things quite seriously. I really truly doubt anyone could do better especially in terms of activity and interest in the votes etc, but they're welcome to prove it when the term is up.
    Last edited by z3n; May 17, 2020 at 12:06 PM. Reason: clarification needed about the specific party involved
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    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitai de Bodemloze View Post
    Yes, it is not great evidence when the accused can simply say 'nope, that wasn't me', and then there's nothing we can do about it. Nor when anyone could go onto Discord, change their name to 'Akar', type: "Yes, it's true, I colluded to wilfully subvert the Constitution", screenshot it and post it here as evidence against him. Hence why I don't like to rely on these things.

    But the allegation has been made and regardless of how suspect the evidence is - and the rather tasteless way in which Caligula has brought it to light -, I trust Akar will come forward with the truth of the matter. I hope that it is, as Caligula has admitted, just a poor attempt at a practical joke that has gotten out of hand, and that we can forget about it and move on. It leaves KA kind of in the lurch, as he should have been the one to vet Commodus' eligibility before the appointment was made official, but as has been stated elsewhere, it's a relatively minor oversight in the grand scheme of things, and something I doubt would shake anyone's confidence in him.
    Oh come on

    When in doubt, you can easily check whether its truly Akar... As he is on the official TWC discord where he has a staffer role which Im pretty sure he wouldnt get without someone confirming its truly him, And discord IDs numbers are unique to the account, so you can just compare what Akar ID is on TWC discord and what is his ID on that other "secret" discord of theirs. I believe there was a pic of his profile from that other discord server in the Caligula's thread, but he deleted it. But pretty sure lot of other people are in it as well and can check compare the IDs, if you refuse to believe its him.

    Not that it matters much, just saying.


    Anyways, not sure if its worth supporting VONC against Akar or others, we will have to see what KA does I guess. I am mainly disappointed by how low did the citizenships standarts fall, when some people obviously see the curia only as a good place for ing.
    Last edited by Jadli; May 17, 2020 at 12:18 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    I am mainly disappointed by how low did they bring the citizenships standarts
    Well, what particularly irritated me is the Commodus application; it showed to me that there was an unwillingness to take citizenship seriously from the get-go. And if the Magistrate to be is unwilling to read the constitution, how then could he or she read the ToS and understand it?

    Fortunately we came to our senses somewhat with the latest "application" attempt.
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    I always said, bringing me in is a clear sign that the standard was essentially moot. The magistrate business and everything else besides should be more than enough clarity.

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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Honestly, I'd be careful Commodus, if you really care.

    There is always the chance of an Ostrakon where a citizen who has shown they fail to meet the requirements expected of a citizen is removed by other citizens.
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    Oh come on

    When in doubt, you can easily check whether its truly Akar... As he is on the official TWC discord where has a staffer role which Im pretty sure he wouldnt get without someone confirming its truly him, And discord IDs numbers are unique to the account, so you can just compare what Akar ID is on TWC discord and what is his ID on that other "secret" discord of theirs. I believe there was a pic of his profile from that other discord server in the Caligula's thread, but he deleted. But pretty sure lot of other people are in it as well and can check compare the IDs, if you refuse to believe its him
    Well, if you would like to go through and do that, be my guest.

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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    Honestly, I'd be careful Commodus, if you really care.

    There is always the chance of an Ostrakon where a citizen who has shown they fail to meet the requirements expected of a citizen is removed by other citizens.
    Be my guest, if you so wish and believe it would work.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    Well, what particularly irritated me is the Commodus application; it showed to me that there was an unwillingness to take citizenship seriously from the get-go. And if the Magistrate to be is unwilling to read the constitution, how then could he or she read the ToS and understand it?

    Fortunately we came to our senses somewhat with the latest "application" attempt.
    I don't think you can expect every applicant to read the dreaded constitution in full, especially the small print in the regulations. Applicants have to be able to rely on the incumbent officials to notify them if they don't meet section 2 subsection c paragraph III of the smallprint on page 271 of the fourth volume of the third edition of the Constitution. Unless you want to handle this thing Vogon-style.
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    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    Well, what particularly irritated me is the Commodus application; it showed to me that there was an unwillingness to take citizenship seriously from the get-go. And if the Magistrate to be is unwilling to read the constitution, how then could he or she read the ToS and understand it?

    Fortunately we came to our senses somewhat with the latest "application" attempt.
    Well, as Commodus was new, he might have not managed to fullly comprehend all the rules and so on... I think what Akar and Cope did is way more irritating. And if that wasnt enough, then Caligula came with his VONCs and made it even more irritiating and thus, here we are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitai de Bodemloze View Post
    Well, if you would like to go through and do that, be my guest.
    Well, as I am not in that secret channel, I can only ask someone for it ..

    - Hello? Can someone who is in that Akar's/Cope's/Caligula's discord take pictures of Akar's/their's account IDs, please? Thanks
    Last edited by Jadli; May 17, 2020 at 12:43 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    Fortunately we came to our senses somewhat with the latest "application" attempt.
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    Well, as Commodus was new, he might have not managed to fullly comprehend all the rules and so on... I think what Akar and Cope did is way more irritating. And if that wasnt enough, then Caligula came with his VONCs and made it even more irritiating and thus, here we are.



    Well, as I am not in that secret channel, I can only ask someone for it ..

    - Hello? Can someone who is in that Akar's/Cope's/Caligula's discord take pictures of Akar's/their's account IDs, please? Thanks
    I already told you I faked the screens out of righteous anger. That's why Calig hadn't noticed, he only saw my faked screens
    Last edited by Cookiegod; May 17, 2020 at 12:50 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: [VoNC] Akar

    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    I've already repped you today.
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