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Thread: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

  1. #1
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    I am proposing an amendment to the constitution, specifically the part regarding the requirements for holding Curial office. Currently the Constitution reads as follows,

    Quote Originally Posted by Old
    Applicants for Curial offices must meet the minimum requirements of the position:


    • Consul - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least one month
    • Censor - citizenship for at least one month; cannot have received a Curial Warning for at least one month and must not have any active moderation warnings
    • Primus Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least six months. Must have verifiable experience in staff moderation for three months, and/or Tribunal experience either as a Tribune or having served at least two terms as Magistrate.
    • Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Modertaion Warning for at least three months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.
    • Magistrate - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least six months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.
    I propose reduction of the citizenship limits to the following,

    Quote Originally Posted by New
    Applicants for Curial offices must meet the minimum requirements of the position:


    • Consul - citizenship for at least one month; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least one month
    • Censor - citizenship for at least one month; cannot have received a Curial Warning for at least one month and must not have any active moderation warnings
    • Primus Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least six months. Must have verifiable experience in staff moderation for three months, and/or Tribunal experience either as a Tribune or having served at least two terms as Magistrate.
    • Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Modertaion Warning for at least three months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.
    • Magistrate - citizenship for at least one month; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least six months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.
    Last edited by Akar; May 17, 2020 at 06:28 AM.

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    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Opposed even if the current VoNC situation wasn't going on at the moment.
    Last edited by Commissar Caligula_; May 17, 2020 at 06:31 AM.




  3. #3
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    I can't support this proposal, as the magistrate has the same rights as a tribune.

    So i would expect some more experience as 1 month.
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    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    I can't support this proposal, as the magistrate has the same rights as a tribune.

    So i would expect some more experience as 1 month.
    If this amendment was proposed before Hader's Order 66 then I would oppose, but since the Censor position now days effectively replaced the Curator's Assisants then things are different now.

    Support with one exception. If the current requirement for the Consul are the same as it is today.
    Last edited by Leonardo; May 17, 2020 at 06:52 AM.
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    Imperator Majora's Avatar Wub.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    The only thing that puts me in a qualifying rung for any of those is the fact I was avidly following the curia for some time before.

    Theoretically this is just fine. If someone fits the exception above, they probably have two brain cells to clink, and citizenship itself is incredibly small as far as being enlightening. Gone are the days it has a real impact on someone's behavior or outlook, if they were ever significant.

    If they don't fit the exception someone somewhere in the curia should point it out. Once someone makes the step, it rolls from there.

    Then again, we got through with my shoddy application with only a belated 'but wait' from someone I thought was around at that time too, so... I call it a wait, see, and consider the above.

    It's worth noting that the 'can't support' is interesting, as it has no vote anyways; support would be meaningless, only arguments would have an impact. Only supports or overwhelming oppositions make a difference when coming from people who add to the count, which the above doesn't change either by previous choice.

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    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    I'm going to support this. These things have been evolving for years. I believe you once needed to be a citizen for 6 months to be a Curator/Consul as example. It used to be so that a magistrate couldnt serve consecutive terms, we got rid of it and are now nominating someone for being a 4x consecutive magistrate. This is simply the next step in the evolvement of the Constitution. Why would we hold back someone who's not new to the site to evaluate moderation decisions? If you think an applicant is too newto citizenship or you think he'd be bad at it you can always vote for another candidate or no against his election.

    Support.

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    Cookiegod's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    I see that people here are ardent believers in the constitution and sticklers to the rules, until they become inconvenient. Is this the precedent we're seing here ? One well-entrenched group doing as they please and retroactively changing the rules when they get caught, and blocking the citizenship of any morally upright applicant whom they know they cannot control? It's 1933 all over again. :/

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    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    @Commodus: I have every right to post my opinion here and i don't "support" this proposal.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; May 17, 2020 at 07:26 AM.
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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    I don't think he implied that you didn't rather that your support is the same as your lack of support given that you aren't a citizen. And since you have no technical vote, that the argument you make is more important than the promise of "support" or not. At least, that's how I interpreted it.

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    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    I see that people here are ardent believers in the constitution and sticklers to the rules, until they become inconvenient. Is this the precedent we're seing here ? One well-entrenched group doing as they please and retroactively changing the rules when they get caught, and blocking the citizenship of any morally upright applicant whom they know they cannot control? It's 1933 all over again. :/
    Akar and I discussed this three months ago already, if it isn't even longer than that. You make the mistake to assume this would be retroactively. Which is not possible.

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    I see that people here are ardent believers in the constitution and sticklers to the rules, until they become inconvenient. Is this the precedent we're seing here ? One well-entrenched group doing as they please and retroactively changing the rules when they get caught, and blocking the citizenship of any morally upright applicant whom they know they cannot control? It's 1933 all over again. :/
    I'm surprised that wasn't evident sooner. Lower activity and a huge driving force of population being centralized and often in agreement with itself.

    There's a good point to be made here, the durations involved are pretty piddly in the overall scope of the site, and the exception comes in pretty dang rarely. The entire thing is a transparent effort to keep someone in (who, me? naaaa). The kicker, people aren't often interested enough to use a very powerful counter to this - if the applicant clearly doesn't fit, address it and make a stink, as the curia does so well. Then there's the vote from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    @Commodus: I have every right to post my opinion here and i don't "support" this proposal.
    Never said you didn't. In fact, the opinion and its merits are the full extent of impact and the thing to focus on, though you're certainly free to leave it at your use of the one word even if doing so would result in it being rightfully discounted for its deliberate effort to not get counted by resigning citizenship.

  12. #12
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Can we have some more formatting in the OP so it's more clear what is being changed. The Citizenship-time requirements for Consuls and Magistrates, right? If so, why this change? There is no explanation in the OP. Have I missed a discussion or issue elsewhere?

    More meat, please.


    EDIT: Well I clearly now have seen the other thread. Still, my requests about formatting remain.
    Last edited by Frunk; May 17, 2020 at 07:44 AM.
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    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Never said you didn't. In fact, the opinion and its merits are the full extent of impact and the thing to focus on, though you're certainly free to leave it at your use of the one word even if doing so would result in it being rightfully discounted for its deliberate effort to not get counted by resigning citizenship.
    ...as the magistrate has the same rights as a tribune.

    So i would expect some more experience as 1 month.
    As the votes of the magistrates have the same weight as the votes of tribunes and regularily only former silver-mace-moderators or magistrates with one term will be appointed to tribunes, i expect more than one month citizenship to judge about me in tribunal.

    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...o-the-Tribunal

    Commodus: Could you finally stop attacking me personal for not wishing to be citizen?
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    Imperator Majora's Avatar Wub.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    I don't think personal attacks mean what you think they mean. If they do, report them, and you will have the delicious irony of a just-former magistrate getting a whack from the hex or curial offices.

  15. #15
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    They are personal, as they do not attack the argument (1 month is not enough experience) but the poster ( evil citizenship refusenik).
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Alas, you've missed the point entirely. I merely comment about your frequent use of 'support' and encourage you to focus on the argument, rather than the far less usable statement that has no play in the system. You can take it or leave it, and if it is personal, I'm sure someone will be around to smite me down.

  17. #17
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Frunk View Post
    Can we have some more formatting in the OP so it's more clear what is being changed. The Citizenship-time requirements for Consuls and Magistrates, right? If so, why this change? There is no explanation in the OP. Have I missed a discussion or issue elsewhere?

    More meat, please.


    EDIT: Well I clearly now have seen the other thread. Still, my requests about formatting remain.
    As far I can tell, this amendment is basically about changing the requirements for the Consul position from three months to one month (read the first line in the Old vs the New quote), which I think shouldn't be to changed due for the responsibilites a Consul has.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    As far I can tell, this amendment is basically about changing the requirements for the Consul position from three months to one month (read the first line in the Old vs the New quote), which I think shouldn't be to changed due for the responsibilites a Consul has.
    Inclined to agree, and the role of Magistrate is equally important.

    Strongly opposed.
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    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    • Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Modertaion Warning for at least three months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.
    Was this in the constitution before?
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    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Officer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    Was this in the constitution before?
    Yes it was. Check the last line in both the Old and New quote in the OP.
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