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Thread: Switch Sun Ce's and Liu Yao's territories

  1. #1

    Default Switch Sun Ce's and Liu Yao's territories

    Hello everyone,

    I am pretty sure y’all have noticed something inaccurate about this ROTK map respectively. Yangzhou’s and Sun Clan’s territories should to be switched as you can see it in Total War: Three Kingdoms and Three kingdoms period of the map timeline videos on youtube. I know it might be too much work to redesign on map and scripts. However, I have some ideas maybe y’all like it. So here is the details list and an image that’ll give you better conception.
    Liu Yao debuts with these settlements (navy blue) while Wucheng is a rebel (gray) and Sun Clan only has Moling (red). East Wu is colored brown and a lime-green spot where Taishi Ci is located. Each faction will have new missions in the beginning as following in story.
    Sun Campaign

    • First mission, defects Taishi Ci after captured Danyang and maybe Shixin (no bribe need). This mission pressures on Liu Yao to take Chaisan and Yuzhang and Yan Baihu takes Wuchang at the same time.
    • Second, to earn few more generals (maybe Zhou Tai or other generals) by taking over Hukou and Poyang settlements.
    • Third, to defeat Liu Yao (Yangzhou), Yan Baihu (East Wu) and Wang Lang (Yue).
    • And the rest of the missions are same.


    Yangzhou

    • First mission for strong units and Taishi Ci to defend Danyang (ignores Shixin) from Sun Clan‘s powerful advancing while Leader Liu Yao takes Chaisan and Yuzhang.
    • Second, form an alliance with Yue and defeat Sun Clan
    • And the rest of the missions are same.


    East Wu

    • First mission Yan Baihu’s brother Yan Yu takes Wucheng.
    • Second, form an alliance with Yue and defeat Sun Clan.
    • And the rest of the missions are same.


    Approve or not, feel free to make comments with your opinion, feedbacks, and/or addition of your own ideas. I still love ROTK mod and TW3K equally, but it’s just that inaccurate territorial map in ROTK game still bothering me lol. Hopefully, it would be very entertaining for anyone who would play Liu Yao or Sun Clan campaign with some new challenge missions.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Switch Sun Ce's and Liu Yao's territories

    It’s not inaccurate - they are in the correct locations. Sanguozhi has Sun Ce’s first incursion over the Yangtze at Niuzhu, which is west-southwest of Moling. SGZ then states he went north to attack Moling (thus controlled by Liu Yao) then, after some victories in the area, proceeded to go after Qu’e (which is east of Moling and also controlled by Liu Yao). So, from west to east, we have Niuzhu (or Niuxu), Jianye/Moling, then Qu’e (or Qu’a) - placing Sun Ce west-southwest of Liu Yao and attacking north, then east. This map can help with the exact locations: http://kongming.net/novel/i/map_rtk.jpg . And Liu Yao didn’t control the entirety of Yang province. He was the provincial governor, however his control was tenuous (Yuan Shu controlled the northern portions of it) and he only directly controlled small sections of the northern areas just south of the Yangtze.

    I’m not sure what map timeline videos you’re referring to, but if they suggest Sun Ce and Liu Yao should be switched, I can guarantee they are wrong. And CA has been nothing short of half-hearted and inaccurate in their misinterpretation of the Three Kingdoms era - that’s why I stopped playing TWTK forever ago. I wouldn’t trust where they place anybody on the map. As far as why Sun Ce has more territory than he should (but he should definitely be west of Liu Yao), it was a gameplay decision to give the AI Sun Clan a chance at conquering the south-east - a 1 settlement faction couldn’t support the armies or resources necessary to survive, let alone beat three other neighbors, so they got bumped with 4 settlements.
    Last edited by Seether; May 15, 2020 at 06:20 PM.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  3. #3
    Fahnat's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Switch Sun Ce's and Liu Yao's territories

    Seether is right on this one, even wikipedia says that Liu Yao made his base at Qu'e since he was not able to establish himself in any other place of Yangzhou.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Switch Sun Ce's and Liu Yao's territories

    I did carefully read Liu Yao & Sun Ce wikis and realized that you guys were right about his base in Qu'e county (Moling & Wuchang) in 194. However, according to wiki, there was no Sun Ce's territory in Yang Province until captured Niuzhu in 195 then Sun troops rapidly invaded north of Yang Province as they called "The Little Conqueror". In the same year, Liu Yao and his forces were defeated by Sun Ce in Qu'e county then escaped to Pengze County (present-day Hukou County, Jiangxi) and garrisoned there. A lot of happens in 195 that Sun Ce and Liu Yao's territories were kinda switched.

    A part of this game probably has very small inaccurate but I understand it is not perfect because of limited editings. Just thought maybe it would be cool if add one more small settlement (Niuzhi) owned by Sun Ce while Danyang, Shixin, and others are rebel settlements. In the beginning of game in 194, there will be one or two new missions where Sun Ce would take rebel settlements and earn more money rewards, strong units and generals in 12 turns (1 year) before confronting Liu Yao and his allies.

    Videos of Three Kingdoms Timeline map I mentioned was related to Sun Ce and Liu Yao Wikis.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTgdOI8Goyw&t=13s watch between 0:13 - 0:14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlaOx6NrIyo between 0:26 - 0:27

    Sun Ce Wiki
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Ce

    Liu Yao Wiki
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Yao_(warlord)

  5. #5
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Switch Sun Ce's and Liu Yao's territories

    At the end of my previous post I already comment on the Sun Clan’s starting size.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

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