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Thread: Differences Between Macedonians?

  1. #1

    Default Differences Between Macedonians?

    After playing a lot with Epirus, I was wondering if there's any practical difference between the Macedonians recruitment. For example, does Epirus recruit locals better in Italy than Pergamon or Macedonia would?
    Last edited by RodriguesSting; May 14, 2020 at 06:19 AM.

  2. #2
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Makedonia has no native recruitment in Italy with their factional governments. Epeiros does.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    That's kinda of a big deal, considering the Macedonians start on a much worse position, only get access to their higher governments after reforming, and have to kill the greatest general in the world in order to do so.

    Do they get anything to make up? They even have some exclusive negative traits, like Mishelenne, that the Molossians don't.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Given that the scripted raids encourage you to restore the European possessions of Phillip II Argeades, perhaps the Makedones have an advantage there.


    You also get the trait Loyal Antigonides from royal kinsmen attending to Pella. Granted, +1 Loyalty is scant consolation for all the unrest inducing traits.

    I'm not sure if no native recruitment in Italy is such a detriment to the Makedon faction. If you're able to get to Italy as Makedon, then you'd have solved all the problems you mentioned. Their history and position in the Hellenistic world also pulls them more eastward than westward.

  5. #5
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by RodriguesSting View Post
    That's kinda of a big deal, considering the Macedonians start on a much worse position, only get access to their higher governments after reforming, and have to kill the greatest general in the world in order to do so.

    Do they get anything to make up? They even have some exclusive negative traits, like Mishelenne, that the Molossians don't.
    They get native recruitment covering the east as far as Baktria and south to Egypt. Epeiros doesn't.

    Hellenistic factions deliberately have different regional "spheres of influence" in which they get their native recruitment through factional governments. Epeiros' is skewed further westward than Makedonia's, they're not just the same faction with different colour schemes and reforms.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    They get native recruitment covering the east as far as Baktria and south to Egypt. Epeiros doesn't.

    Hellenistic factions deliberately have different regional "spheres of influence" in which they get their native recruitment through factional governments. Epeiros' is skewed further westward than Makedonia's, they're not just the same faction with different colour schemes and reforms.
    That's very interesting to know. Makedonia being able to suplant the successor states is... kinda of a big deal. I personally find Epeiros being able to take over Italy a bit more interesting, but now I don't think they really get that much of a leg up later on.

    Also neat to know about Pella, maybe I should move my capital there. It is always in Athens, so my folks can get educated and do court at the same time.

    So I guess that leaves the most awkward successor off. While Seleukids have their own unique factional government line, and the Ptolemaioi are a decidedly different faction... what make of Pergamon? Can they get more out of Anatolia than other Macedonians?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by RodriguesSting View Post
    I personally find Epeiros being able to take over Italy a bit more interesting, but now I don't think they really get that much of a leg up later on.

    I'd say Italian infantry makes up for everything. Should you ever wish to expand further after securing Greece, Balkans, Sicily and Italy you'll be very hard to stop. Whatever you might need on the flanks of your phalanxes the Latin tribes can provide. With a strong fleet it isn't even hard to ship the forces around the Mediterraean.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.




  8. #8

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by RodriguesSting View Post
    That's very interesting to know. Makedonia being able to suplant the successor states is... kinda of a big deal. I personally find Epeiros being able to take over Italy a bit more interesting, but now I don't think they really get that much of a leg up later on.

    Also neat to know about Pella, maybe I should move my capital there. It is always in Athens, so my folks can get educated and do court at the same time.

    So I guess that leaves the most awkward successor off. While Seleukids have their own unique factional government line, and the Ptolemaioi are a decidedly different faction... what make of Pergamon? Can they get more out of Anatolia than other Macedonians?
    If I remember from asking. Pergamon isnt really a Makedonian successor in the pure term. So they lack several of the agema troops but their Hegemon like approach which gave locals more importance in their power structures makes them better at getting regionals in the area. Also I think they avoid some of the hellenic poleis happines/order penalties that you get if you dont install an allied goverment.

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by RodriguesSting View Post
    That's very interesting to know. Makedonia being able to suplant the successor states is... kinda of a big deal. I personally find Epeiros being able to take over Italy a bit more interesting, but now I don't think they really get that much of a leg up later on.

    Also neat to know about Pella, maybe I should move my capital there. It is always in Athens, so my folks can get educated and do court at the same time.

    So I guess that leaves the most awkward successor off. While Seleukids have their own unique factional government line, and the Ptolemaioi are a decidedly different faction... what make of Pergamon? Can they get more out of Anatolia than other Macedonians?

    I don't believe Athenai itself offers unique educational benefits that investment in Akademia won't give you. It does offer the Eleusinian trait, but Loyalty is more valuable than Influence, and you can always shuffle Garum Chefs around for the same gain in Influence.

    Pre-reform Pergamon definitely isn't able to get more out of Anatolia than it's rivals. I believe they can recruit more from Galatia but that's from my experience fighting the Pergamon AI, I haven't taken Pergamon past their reforms yet.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Epeiros is an interesting faction. It's a Hellenic kingdom but not exactly a Successor kingdom even if their dynasty has possibly the closest blood ties with Argeads. Of all Hellenic powers in the game they're also the one most posed to expand westwards.


    One "only" has to get rid of Rome and to fight Carthage to succeed.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.




  11. #11
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervaj View Post
    If I remember from asking. Pergamon isnt really a Makedonian successor in the pure term. So they lack several of the agema troops but their Hegemon like approach which gave locals more importance in their power structures makes them better at getting regionals in the area. Also I think they avoid some of the hellenic poleis happines/order penalties that you get if you dont install an allied goverment.
    Indeed, they're not Makedonian at all, they're more properly Greek.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Indeed, they're not Makedonian at all, they're more properly Greek.
    Yeah this makes me very confused about the Hellenic factions now. I thought they were Macedonians because, well:

    1 - They aren't Molossians.
    2 - They aren't KH, and can build colonies.
    3 - They aren't... Bosphorans, who can also build colonies, despite being greek...?

    So I guess it would be more accurate to call them Macedonian-ized Lydians, a group of people less opposed to the idea of being ruled by an oligarch? I don't really know, most of them just sharing the same government tree makes things further more confusing.

    I guess technically Pontus is also a successor state, but they are old Persian?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Pergamon are mostly Asia Minor Greeks. There were more Greeks living in the Asiatic colonies and under the Persian rule than in the Greece proper. They even initially supported Persians against Alexander.

    Ephesos, Halicarnassos and Side are all old Greek colonies.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.




  14. #14

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    From what I gathered the Hellenic world of EBII is overwhelmingly dominated by regimes styled after (or looking to style themselves after) the Argead kingdom of Phillipos II and Alexandros Megas. KH is the only playable exception. According to the descriptions Pergamon seems to be a mix of KH and Successor Kingdom. They are ruled by a Basileus and his extended family, but they lean much more heavily towards giving the impression of simply being the head of a federation rather than an "absolute" king over his subjects.


    Pontos' royal dynasty claims descent from an old Persian line, and despite their unique brand of Philhellenism their culture is Eastern Tribal or Eastern Imperial. Never Hellenistic.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by BailianSteel View Post
    Pre-reform Pergamon definitely isn't able to get more out of Anatolia than it's rivals. I believe they can recruit more from Galatia but that's from my experience fighting the Pergamon AI, I haven't taken Pergamon past their reforms yet.
    They get Galatian elites after becoming a kingdom (heavy spearmen+ noble cavalry) from their Lvl7/"royal" government, even if said government is placed outside Asia Minor. On the downside, as someone mentioned earlier, they lack many of the Agema Units - no Agema Phalangitai, no Hyaspistai, no Peltastai Makedones. They have local equivalents for the latter two (Peltaistai Logades and Hyperaspistai), although both are also available as regional to other Hellenistic faction. That difference is somewhat leveled after the Thorakitai reform, when they get Thorakitai Epilektoi as well.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Differences Between Macedonians?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Indeed, they're not Makedonian at all, they're more properly Greek.
    On question on this. Is there any plans to change where they suffer the public order maluses? Right now I think they only avoid it on Pergamon itself. I dont know if this should at least be extended to other ionian provinces. On hellas proper I dont know because they never really controlled that so it is a what if, at best we could look at how relations where externally. But wasnt their "reign" much more accepted by greeks and other locals? It feels weird that given the approach they had they suffer the maluses yet non greek factions avoid completely both the hapiness and law one. Even KH has to reform to avoid the second one.


    Feel free to correct me and explain, I always love to learn more and know the explanation behind mechancis like this.

    We will either find a way, or make one.


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