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Thread: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

  1. #1

    Default I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    Ok. I have been getting so much conflicting information on this subject, I put my playthrough on HOLD. I truly hope someone can answermyquestions, becauseI fear I amconfusingpeople (which is the last thing I want to do). So, if YOU, the gods of the EB2, would like help outEB2 newbs like me (So we can share this MOD), I will make sure to name a legion after you in my Videos. lol

    Now, I do understand the basics mechanics of the allied government. I *NOW* alsounderstandthatyouhavetodemolish the allied state,to geta new client ruler (whichIreallydontlike). So,I get the basic mechanics; it is the “why should I build this stuff” I clearlydontunderstand.


    1. As ROME, what should I build outside of Italy? Free states or Allied state? Is there even a point to build an Allied state as Rome?


    2. If I build a Free State, where does that lead long term? Does it convert the culture or just make it easy to manage? It really feels like a dead end.

    3. The Provincia...Does that get tax from the whole region or just a city? Is it even worth building? For example; if I build one in the city of Syracuse, does that give a bonus to all of Sicily or just Syracuse? Does the Gov the gets that title now spread his bonus to the region, or just the city?

    4. Last question, do the reforms change what these building chains do? I think I read that the Marian reforms all you to recruit with one orboth of them. But is that it?



    So, instead of recording vids, I have put my whole let’s play on hold until I get a clear answer. The last thing I want, is to give bad information and confuse people.


    Thank you in advance.

  2. #2

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    Hey "dude" I like your playthrough. Couple of observations.

    1. Public order is the main thing in the EBII, it is more important than money. That is the design of the mod.

    2. Unrest could be generated by spy in the settlement. Per each turn enemy spy in the settlement generates +5% unrest. To fight it you should have governor with counter spy trait or your own spy in the settlement.

    3. Allied governments are type of governments that are available to all factions. You have worse recruitment and building options with them than in the settlements with your own factional government. Allied governments are build only in the cases when the situation with public order in the settlement is abysmal. In settlement with an allied government only recruited generals with "client ruler" trait are allowed as governors, the family member in the allied government settlement will gain an "interloper' trait within one turn, which generates alot of unrest. So no family members in the allied settlements, they make things worse.

    4. Client rulers have also one big drawback, namely they negatively influence your family tree. In the M2TW it is hard coded that the number of generals should be relatively equal to the number of regions, this counts client rulers (recruitable generals) too. Too many of client rulers and if you total number of generals exceeds number of regions your faction will stop having children and offers of marriage.

    In short, avoid allied governments, unless you are really hard press with public order issue in a settlement.

    Hope it helps.

  3. #3

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    At first, without allied governments, Rome can't recruit troops outside Italy, not counting mercs. That may sound like a big problem... but it really isn't. Rome recruitment pools are pretty fantastic, be Latin or Soccii troops. Furthermore, these troops are very high quality, which means their good numbers go A LONG way. The only issue is that very long distances can become a problem, with you having to ferry full legions to a distant front and bring back depleted ones for reinforcement, while other factions could just recruit an army locally.

    Other than public order and some troops (have in mind, Allied Governments, even Democracies, generally offer pools/quality of troops lower than what a properly positioned factional government with emphasis on recruitment would), allied governments also bring two benefits: 1 - it gives a general to govern the place with a decent few traits to make him worthwhile, and 2 - a law bonus for Oligarchies, which counter corruption, thus improving income.

    However, even then, allied governments are terrible economically. By the get-go it will reduce farm production and will also reduce most trade bonuses from buildings. Installing an allied government in a place in which you could put a factional government is to stunt it economically, least your factional government possible there is so bare-bones you can hardly build any improvements in the place (Numidians). Furthermore, a FM raised in a school and properly groomed will be a MUCH better governor than any client ruler possibly could be.

    Finally, Province vs Free City. I didn't play romans enough, but I believe Free City can get a one-time recruitment, and despite it stating to not be great economically, as moey-makers, it still beats allied governmetns.

  4. #4

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    Another note is that Allied Governments are the only way of obtaining certain units unavailable through any other means or factions. Those units are Armorican Swordsmen and Ardaian Heavy Infantry. If you want these rarities in your army then build an Allied Government in North-western France or Illyria Hellenike, respectively. Other than that every other unit in the game is available through some faction's government or as mercenaries.

  5. #5

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Another note is that Allied Governments are the only way of obtaining certain units unavailable through any other means or factions. Those units are Armorican Swordsmen and Ardaian Heavy Infantry. If you want these rarities in your army then build an Allied Government in North-western France or Illyria Hellenike, respectively. Other than that every other unit in the game is available through some faction's government or as mercenaries.
    There's more, like Celtic and Garamatine Chariots. Hardly worth the effort and investment though.

  6. #6

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    1. There are benefits to using Allied States as Roma. You won't be able to recruit outside of Italy with factional governments for most of your playthrough, so the only way to bolster your armies with local recruitment far from your core regions is to use Allied State governments. Unless you have the time to manually go through every big battle, chances are you won't be able to hold onto a large empire with Roman recruitment alone. As mentioned Client Rulers are often the best way, sometimes the only way, to keep a region in line. Liguria is a pretty good example of this.

    2. Free State is probably for regions where you don't want recruitment (aside from navies,) and you don't want to leave it under the initial stage of occupation for role-playing/historocity reasons or public order. Consider it the carrot to the Provincia's stick. The presence of certain buildings also affect what traits governors receive, so perhaps there's benefit on that front that I've been overlooking.

    3. You don't need to build Provincia en masse until the Roman endgame, when you hit the Marian reforms and build colonies as well as recruit from them. The main benefit of Provincia is that the government creates a unique ancillary that grants the holder Imperivm as long as they remain inside a certain set of regions. This allows you to have a long term commander in distant theaters, which the normal Cvrsvs Honorvm doesn't make practical.

    So the government itself only affects the region, but it creates an ancillary that will make it easier to campaign in the province.

    4. I actually have never reached the Marian reforms myself, but have fought against an AI Roma that used it. They quite literally skyrocketed in power when they hit the Marian reforms, and gave me a close contender for the biggest challenge I ever had playing EBII. I don't know about Free Cities since I've never seen any from the Marian AI, but post-Marian Provincia decent local recruitment, and allow you to build military colonies that at that point provide the best infantry in the game.



    Quote Originally Posted by RodriguesSting View Post
    There's more, like Celtic and Garamatine Chariots. Hardly worth the effort and investment though.

    Yep. The Roman roster is good enough that most regionals can't really contribute.

  7. #7

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    As the Romans I would normally first build an allied government first when expanding. Mainly this is for role playing purposes but it also helps with initial public order problems. The Romans had lots of allied and client kingdoms which gradually got absorbed. Once the client ruler dies I would destroy the allied government and replace with province/ free city depending on role playing /public order.

    I normally play on hard and find as the Romans the game is relatively easy once you control Italy so can afford to role play and expand slowly. I would normally have a small ring of client states around my empire. The exception to building client states would be in some of carthage city's due to the historical emnity between the two states.

    I would almost always go oligarchy. Helps with corruption due to law so will make you some money rather than none. Also seems to fit better with a client ruler. The one exception to this is Greek polis which I go democratic. I like my roman troops to be seen as liberators against the diadochi kingdoms in the hellen world!! Occasionally I go democratic in gallic lands to get good gallic infantry if I have pushed far into gaul before the Marian reforms.

    If anyone can correct me on historical role playing I have outlined please do!!

  8. #8

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    The Romani, being the master politicians that they are, often campaigned under the slogan of "Freedom for the Greeks." Can't remember if that translated to installing democracies, I don't believe the Greek notion of freedom was strictly tied to demokratia, and I only remember Athenai being particularly eager to spread it.

  9. #9

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    Thanks to everyone. You have all got credit in my newest vid coming out today!

  10. #10

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    Thanks to everyone. You have all received credit in my new video coming out today.

  11. #11

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    Man, why can't i edit or delete these double post.

  12. #12

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    I came across this problem too. You need 25 posts before you can delete or edit your posts.

  13. #13

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    For what it's worth, some of these options are presented largely with historical roleplay concerns in mind, or at least to give the option of realism. The Allied State is an excellent tool for simulating the real path of empire building historically, which was as much about gaining imbalanced alliances with regional groups as just straight out conquest. For that reason, I always play with a bit of casus-belli roleplay in mind, why am I going to war, that sort of thing, to determine what kinds of measures I can take. But that's really just a headcanon I come up with to enjoy the game more, curious how it would work for a let's play.

    From a purely mechanical standpoint, allied regions are quick to establish, provide public order and modest recruitment of interesting regional units. They can't really be developed, not as big an issue though for an already powerful polity like Syracuse for example (which if I recall correctly is also a special case of a settlement where you can get big public order penalties for not making them allied, since they are fiercely independent (Ankyra too?)).

    This mod is generally designed with more player-driven restrictions in mind for how expansion, conquest and development are handled, due to simple limitations with modding Med2. You can play with a purely game focused approach but it's not where the key strengths of the design lie, though it's still a great mod regardless of how it's played.
    Last edited by Cryoshakespeare; May 15, 2020 at 06:53 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    They can't really be developed, not as big an issue though for an already powerful polity like Syracuse for example (which if I recall correctly is also a special case of a settlement where you can get big public order penalties for not making them allied, since they are fiercely independent (Ankyra too?)).
    All de facto Hellenic City States have these two buildings that will cause large unrest and unhappiness if you build a non-allied government with anyone but KH.

  15. #15

    Default Re: I need help with the Roman governments outside of Italy

    I agree. With your guys help I have made a firm commitment with Role Playing coming first over Min/Max. Thank you to everyone.

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