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Thread: Recruitment suggestions

  1. #21

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    There's nothing wrong with that. I am just highlighting that's what you gotta do if you wish to incorporate a skirmishing core in your army. Either levy Akontistai/Euzenoi from multiple city states, or go for (better) foreign/mercenary options.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    As already mentioned, they're standing in for Ligurian slingers all over the place.



    They become more common after the Celtic Twilight reform, because Celtic cavalry got heavier.



    They're an alternative to Eporeda Akus in Belgic settlements, thus have their numbers. The high availability of cavalry for Celtic factions is intended.



    They only appear in one-point pools, where they aren't retrain only. They're also doubling up as Punic settlers in specific places, like Shardin.



    Is this for KH, you're talking about?
    Balearic slingers: I tried to avoid the confusion, I'm not talking about the stand in for the Ligurian slingers. I'm talking about the large number of recruitable Balearic slingers, especially in Spain. You can easily recruit 3, 4, and even 5 (in Qart Hadast in Iberia). That's the problem. I think I read somewhere that an ancient author (might have been Pliny, who writes at a later time but the idea still holds) that the Balearic Islands populations was maybe 30,000, so realistically a few thousand slingers could be recruited at most. I can recruit at least a stack of Balearic slingers in a couple turns by the late game if I have most of the Iberian settlements. That is obviously a not good. Balearic slingers at the very least should restricted to 1 in most settlements they are recruited in (maybe 2 for the islands themselves), which puts it in line with other slingers. Even better, they should restricted to only the Balearic Islands or a few other settlements to make their scarce.

    Celtic Noble Cav: They are common before the Twilight reform, with 2 recruitable from a confederacy after the Riders reform. In fact, I think they are recruitable in the Belgic allied states (not client state) after the Riders reform, not the late/twilight reform. Even in the late game with a confederacy, I think there should only be 1. This makes you draw cavalry from those allied states.

    Belgic cavalry: As far as I know, only one Belgic settlement (Batumacos) with an allied state (not client state) can recruit them. Autrikon (perhaps not treated as completely Belgic, but has other Belgic units) has Eporeda Akus, and Nemetokena has Uergepades. In that one settlement, they have more than the numbers of Eporeda Akus. With an allied government, there are 2 Eporeda Akus in Autrikon vs 3 Belgic cavalry in Batumacos.

    Liby-Phoenician Infantry: I don't know what you mean by 1 point pools. You can have 2 units in a pool in the core African provinces + Lilubim once you get a large settler colony.

    Elite Hoplites: Yes, this for KH. By year 188 which is effectively the later game, I can crank out 2 from pretty much every hellenic settlement. I can recruit 2 elites in Memphis (isn't even a truly hellenic settlement), Kyrene, Epidamnos, Side, etc.. In Kyrene, I can only recruit 1 unit of normal hoplites but 2 elites. This is because I can make most settlements a Greek league member state. This means I can make armies completely out of Elites, and it's been one of the easier late games I've ever had because of it. They need to be restricted in some way.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Sorry to bring back the triarii topic, but I agree that 80 men on huge size is too small, and it is inconsistent with all other units in the mod. I would prefer the original Europa Barbarorum solution: 160 men, with halved recruitment and lowered stats. It makes sense if you consider them as veterans and not elites.

    Speaking about roman units, the post-marian first cohorts are too big, they should be 200 men as standard cohorts. If I am not mistaken, the bigger size for the first cohorts was adopted in the 1st century AD, after the EBII period. I would decrease the size of the cohors sociorum from 240 men to 200 too. The only units to have 240 men in the mod are phalangites and some low-quality barbarian levies, and cohors sociorum are neither.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bast39 View Post
    I would decrease the size of the cohors sociorum from 240 men to 200 too.
    Blasphemy!

  5. #25

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    To be fair, that sets them apart from the Hastati. But probably not for the good.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Rome needs a way of recruiting basic archers and slingers in Italy aside of maybe getting them in Taras. It's only mildly inconvenient for a human player, but AI Italian armies almost never include any psiloi and that makes their city defenses much weaker than they should be.


    Feel free to take those spendonetai you've got from the bargain bin and park them in front of those legionaries trying to defend the breach. No one's going to shoot back at them anyway.


    Also, perhaps Hellenic factions could get a more armored upgrade to Machairophoroi after the Thorakitai reform.
    Last edited by Satapatiš; June 14, 2020 at 01:40 PM.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  7. #27

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Satapatiš View Post
    Also, perhaps Hellenic factions could get a more armored upgrade to Machairophoroi after the Thorakitai reform.
    I second this idea, thought there are some arguments for and against. It would make sense for Machairaphoroi and Thureophoroi, as well as quite a few other Hellenistic units, to gain improved armor as military officials observe the increased effectiveness of armored heavy infantry post-Thureos reform (How come only the Galatians adopt heavier armaments across the board?). However, at the same time there still needs to be medium infantry to fill in the gap between the lightly armored Euzenoi and the heavy Thorakitai. Ladening the Thureophoroi and Machairaphoroi with even more armor makes them a redundant addition to the Hellenistic war machine. On the other hand, if the armor upgrade manifests only as more troops wearing linothorax instead of tunics, thus increasing the "overall" armor, then maybe it would make sense. Of course this is all personal opinion, but an armor upgrade to Thureophoroi and Machairaphoroi would make the Thorakitai Reforms even more exciting.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    I second this idea, thought there are some arguments for and against. It would make sense for Machairaphoroi and Thureophoroi, as well as quite a few other Hellenistic units, to gain improved armor as military officials observe the increased effectiveness of armored heavy infantry post-Thureos reform (How come only the Galatians adopt heavier armaments across the board?). However, at the same time there still needs to be medium infantry to fill in the gap between the lightly armored Euzenoi and the heavy Thorakitai. Ladening the Thureophoroi and Machairaphoroi with even more armor makes them a redundant addition to the Hellenistic war machine. On the other hand, if the armor upgrade manifests only as more troops wearing linothorax instead of tunics, thus increasing the "overall" armor, then maybe it would make sense. Of course this is all personal opinion, but an armor upgrade to Thureophoroi and Machairaphoroi would make the Thorakitai Reforms even more exciting.

    I was thinking of a new sword-oriented unit just like Machairophoroi are sword-oriented variant of Thureophoroi. In reality medium and heavy late Hellenic troops could be using either spears or swords, but not on this engine - it has to be split between two unit types because no unit can have three weapon types... But there's no heavier armored native Hellenic succession to sword infantry.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  9. #29

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Satapatiš View Post
    I was thinking of a new sword-oriented unit just like Machairophoroi are sword-oriented variant of Thureophoroi. In reality medium and heavy late Hellenic troops could be using either spears or swords, but not on this engine - it has to be split between two unit types because no unit can have three weapon types... But there's no heavier armored native Hellenic succession to sword infantry.
    Good point. Some of the other mods interpret Thorakitai as heavy sword infantry. RTRVII comes to mind. Sword-thorakitai are probably backed by historical evidence so it would be great if EBII also included them in the near future. I mean, Iberian Scutarii get all that sword/spear counterpart love. Why can't the lovely Greeks?

  10. #30
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Satapatiš View Post
    [/I]Also, perhaps Hellenic factions could get a more armored upgrade to Machairophoroi after the Thorakitai reform.
    There was some discussion of a Romanised late version of the Machairophoroi, but it wouldn't happen as soon as the ThorakitaiReform if it were implemented.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    There was some discussion of a Romanised late version of the Machairophoroi, but it wouldn't happen as soon as the ThorakitaiReform if it were implemented.
    Could be linked to the Romani triggering their Marian Reform.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  12. #32

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Ardiaioi Thorakitai - this got to be possibly one of the least useful units on the campaign map. They're powerful, but so difficult to field and retrain even when compared to other elites that all three factions with access to them have no reason for doing so. Everything they do can be done better by similar (if cheaper) troops if only because of how hard is to even replenish losses on them. On top of the Ardiaoi being recruitable only from the allied government which is a hit to the settlement income.

    Illyrian Client Rulers - for some reason they use Italian hoplites as their general unit. Perhaps a unit of Ardiaioi Thorakitai would be a better choice here?
    Last edited by Satapatiš; July 04, 2020 at 10:56 AM.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  13. #33
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Satapatiš View Post
    Illyrian Client Rulers - for some reason they use Italian hoplites as their general unit. Perhaps a unit of Ardiaioi Thorakitai would be a better choice here?
    It's the other way around. There are only a limited number of Client Ruler units (13 to be specific), and the closest fit that could be managed for Illyria is the Italic Client. We can't give every region it's own tailored client without using an exorbitant number of unit slots.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    On the very first item on that list, in the patch you will see a lot fewer Balearic Slingers.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Not exactly related to this thread, but holy crap Sarmatian Cataphracts can be trained in Maeot and Khsiragia once you've converted the settlements there and installed Urban Administration of the Sauromatae. I previously thought they could only be trained in the Sarmatian starting capital, making them logistically a PITA. But nope, there's a beautiful reward for converting those regions. The Roxolani Lancers, on the other hand...

  16. #36

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Never mind, it turns out you can't build Urban Land of the Sauromatae even in converted settlements. Sarmatian Armored Riders are still strategically burdensome as a result.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Yes they are. All Pastoral regions will be Nomadic Government, which is not bad. Furthermore, one of your starting Nomadic Regions is pastoral, but it will never be converted because of your permanent Nomadic culture. Oversight I suppose.
    Last edited by RodriguesSting; August 01, 2020 at 09:09 PM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by RodriguesSting View Post
    Yes they are. All Pastoral regions will be Nomadic. Furthermore, one of your starting Nomadic Regions is pastoral, but it will never be converted because of your permanent Nomadic culture. Oversight I suppose.
    You're talking about the region that can train Siraces Riders, right? You can demolish the government there on turn 5 or so once you've wiped out the Bosporans and establish an Allied Oligarchy with no client ruler. That will slowly sap away the Nomadic culture, reaching 59% by turn 125 or so. So midgame, basically. Sadly, still no Urban Land of the Sauromatae once you've converted that region. I really do wish Sarmatian Armored Riders are available closer to the Pontic sea

  19. #39

    Default Re: Recruitment suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    You're talking about the region that can train Siraces Riders, right? You can demolish the government there on turn 5 or so once you've wiped out the Bosporans and establish an Allied Oligarchy with no client ruler. That will slowly sap away the Nomadic culture, reaching 59% by turn 125 or so. So midgame, basically. Sadly, still no Urban Land of the Sauromatae once you've converted that region. I really do wish Sarmatian Armored Riders are available closer to the Pontic sea
    Jesus, and people were complaining that my move of leaving Colonies in Allied provinces was too gamey.

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