Charges dropped against General Flynn

[B. W.]

Yet, you were unable to provide the 302s that you claimed to be proving that Flynn didn't lie. In fact, when I plainly asked for them you changed course and tried to argue that 302s were altered anyways. Will you acknowledge that after all?

I see. What you're saying is that for me to be right I have to provide the "lost" 302s that not even the FBI who "lost" them can find.

I'll tell you what, how about you proving to me that the FBI didn't alter the remaining 302s that are known to exist.

[PointOfViewGun]

I see. What you're saying is that for me to be right I have to provide the "lost" 302s that not even the FBI who "lost" them can find.

I'll tell you what, how about you proving to me that the FBI didn't alter the remaining 302s that are known to exist.

For your simple claim that 302s prove Flynn didn't lie to be true, yes, you need to provide those 302s showing that. Thats how evidence work. What I'm telling you is very straight forward. Whether FBI altered those documents or not is your attempt to jump away from your failed earlier claim. Once you acknowledge that you simply made up your initial claim on the fly or show us the 302 documents we can move on to other points you made.

[B. W.]

For your simple claim that 302s prove Flynn didn't lie to be true, yes, you need to provide those 302s showing that. Thats how evidence work. What I'm telling you is very straight forward. Whether FBI altered those documents or not is your attempt to jump away from your failed earlier claim. Once you acknowledge that you simply made up your initial claim on the fly or show us the 302 documents we can move on to other points you made.

That's not how justice works. I don't have to prove Flynn's innocence, you have to prove his guilt.

I have offered up evidence to show the FBI altered evidence (the 302s). There is nothing to show this isn't the case.

Going further, you've already proven you are unwilling to look at anything I post (not to mention being caught in a lie) so the onus is on you. Show me something that proves Flynn's guilt.

[PointOfViewGun]

That's not how justice works. I don't have to prove Flynn's innocence, you have to prove his guilt.

I have offered up evidence to show the FBI altered evidence (the 302s). There is nothing to show this isn't the case.

Going further, you've already proven you are unwilling to look at anything I post (not to mention being caught in a lie) so the onus is on you. Show me something that proves Flynn's guilt.

Flynn's innocence? We are talking about your claim. You claimed that 302s prove that Flynn was not lying. You can either show me those 302s showing how Flynn didn't lie or you can acknowledge that you made that claim up. You made a claim and clearly you're unable to come to terms with it.

[Gaidin]

You guys are both kind of missing the forest for the trees. Flynn, a former SOCOM General, thought it'd be a good idea to do private intelligence work for not just a foreign country, but Turkey without declaring it. And he willfully lied about discussions with the Russian Ambassador. And he confessed to the latter. That's kind of a moot point as that confession is in the hands of the federal judge now and the FBI 302s are kind of a moot point. Sullivan is asking another judge to look into the case and issue a amicus curiae regarding the case before he rules on or dismisses it. Since, you know, the DoJ won't.

[B. W.]

Flynn's innocence? We are talking about your claim. You claimed that 302s prove that Flynn was not lying. You can either show me those 302s showing how Flynn didn't lie or you can acknowledge that you made that claim up. You made a claim and clearly you're unable to come to terms with it.

You want a 302? Here's the 302 Mueller submitted to the court. There's nothing there to prove Flynn lied:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...rview-302.html

So now, will you please, please quit lying and moving the goal posts?

You guys are both kind of missing the forest for the trees. Flynn, a former SOCOM General, thought it'd be a good idea to do private intelligence work for not just a foreign country, but Turkey without declaring it. And he willfully lied about discussions with the Russian Ambassador. And he confessed to the latter. That's kind of a moot point as that confession is in the hands of the federal judge now and the FBI 302s are kind of a moot point. Sullivan is asking another judge to look into the case and issue a amicus curiae regarding the case before he rules on or dismisses it. Since, you know, the DoJ won't.

Up until the Mueller investigation there were over 3,000 unregistered lobbyists in Washington working for foreign countries in"violation" of the Logan Act.

In case you're unaware Turkey is a member of NATO and, unfortunately an ally. Nothing Flynn did was unusual for a former US general.

There is no evidence that Flynn lied about his conversation with the Russian ambassador. He was aware that all the conversations between foreign governments were monitored. No logical reason for him to do it. The whole thing was fabricated.

[Gaidin]

In case you're unaware Turkey is a member of NATO and, unfortunately an ally. Nothing Flynn did was unusual for a former US general.

It doesn't matter whether Turkey is NATO or not. If you do intelligence work for even god damn Canada, you're required to declare it. The lowliest analyst knows this.

[Common Soldier]

It doesn't matter whether Turkey is NATO or not. If you do intelligence work for even god damn Canada, you're required to declare it. The lowliest analyst knows this.

And the lowest official knows you don't do official emails on your personal computer like Hillary. Apparenrly if you violate procedures and laws it matters only the other political party does it. I didn't see Clinton being punished for a flagrant violation of US

Also, any officer knows you need to keep original records of your interviews, not lose them like Strotz dis with the 302. All Strotz text.were conveniently lost If you can't produce the originals, that is going to really hamper the prosecutions case. This seems to be a growing trend by the FBI, of losing inconvenient documents.

[Gaidin]

And the lowest official knows you don't do official emails on your personal computer like Hillary. Apparenrly if you violate procedures and laws it matters only the other political party does it. I didn't see Clinton being punished for a flagrant violation of US

The Federal Judge knows the facts of the case. The 302s have no bearing on this. Flynn lied to federal agents. Nothing changes how Flynn lied. They gave Flynn opportunity to get representation. He didn't. Then Flynn lied. This wasn't entrapment. This was Flynn lying to the federal government. The facts that Flynn lied about are spelled out in his confession and are in the possession of the judge and will be given to another to go over in an amicus curiae. Nothing you say about the 302s will ever change the fact that Flynn said he didn't need a lawyer and then lied about the facts of the case.

[B. W.]

It doesn't matter whether Turkey is NATO or not. If you do intelligence work for even god damn Canada, you're required to declare it. The lowliest analyst knows this.

Flynn wasn't doing intelligence work for Turkey, he was working as a lobbyist. Personally, I don't think any former government official should be allowed to represent another country in Washington, but hey, it just shows how so many of them get rich at the expense of Americans.

And the lowest official knows you don't do official emails on your personal computer like Hillary. Apparenrly if you violate procedures and laws it matters only the other political party does it. I didn't see Clinton being punished for a flagrant violation of US

Also, any officer knows you need to keep original records of your interviews, not lose them like Strotz dis with the 302. All Strotz text.were conveniently lost If you can't produce the originals, that is going to really hamper the prosecutions case. This seems to be a growing trend by the FBI, of losing inconvenient documents.

It's pretty obvious the Obama and Co. hated Flynn because he wouldn't support their narrative that everything was OK with the ISIS situation, but they took it to the extreme.

They had already achieved their objective when they got Flynn fired but they got cocky and decided to prosecute him. It was a stupid strategic move on their part. The leading people involved; Strotz, Page, McCabe, and Comey have all been fired by the FBI for LYING and are presently being investigated for criminality. It was an absolutely crazy thing to do. Now they're trying to continue a case when the law enforcement people involved are themselves under investigation. They were winning and they literally shot themselves in the foot.

What's even crazier is the Judge in the case is taking it even further. He should have dismissed the case like any judge would do. It has become a tit-for-tat game in the justice department and every time the Dems and Obama folks take it further more comes out about their misdeeds. The latest is the names of the unmaskers, which is damaging the Biden campaign.

No one really knows where or how this ends up because it gets messier and messier. One thing is for sure, there are a lot of veterans who are thoroughly PO'd about the Flynn case.

The news media has carried the water for this hoax for long they don't know a way out of it, so they are doubling down on stupid. It's crazy.

With the pandemic going on, China rattling sabers, and an election coming up this whole thing could go sideways in a hurry.

[Coughdrop addict]

Pretty amazing how Obama knew Trump would disregard his warning to not hire Flynn, forced Flynn to offer dropping sanctions against Russia, lie to Pence, and then made Trump fire him. He then topped even those astounding feats by forcing Flynn to lie to the FBI and plead guilty twice. And he did all of this while out of office, under a Republican administration, a Republican-headed FBI, and a Republican DOJ. For someone that the right regularly declared to be a subhuman animal he sure seems smart to me.

I'm curious what the local Trump supporters would have said if Obama decided to withdraw prosecution of say, Hillary after she plead guilty twice? I'm sure you'd be okay with it, right?

[PointOfViewGun]

You want a 302? Here's the 302 Mueller submitted to the court. There's nothing there to prove Flynn lied:
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...rview-302.html
So now, will you please, please quit lying and moving the goal posts?

It's interesting that you accuse me of lying and moving the goal post. Clearly, you're trying to project your position's own shortcomings to me. Otherwise, you'd tell us what I lied about and where I moved the goalpost to and from.

Let's see. Pages 4 and 5 seems to be revolving around the agents asking Flynn whether he discussed sanctions with Russia, aka Kisylak. He says no to discussing the vote in UN. That was one of the lies he was charged with. The other one was him denying that he talked about Russian response to the new sanctions. So, basically, thank you for linking the 302s that doesn't really say what you said about them. Did you drag your feet around because you knew the 302s didn't really show what you claimed them to show?

[Gaidin]

Pretty amazing how Obama knew Trump would disregard his warning to not hire Flynn, forced Flynn to offer dropping sanctions against Russia, lie to Pence, and then made Trump fire him. He then topped even those astounding feats by forcing Flynn to lie to the FBI and plead guilty twice. And he did all of this while out of office, under a Republican administration, a Republican-headed FBI, and a Republican DOJ. For someone that the right regularly declared to be a subhuman animal he sure seems smart to me.

I'm curious what the local Trump supporters would have said if Obama decided to withdraw prosecution of say, Hillary after she plead guilty twice? I'm sure you'd be okay with it, right?

Don't forget. Obama forced Flynn to answer questions of FBI agents without representation to advise. That was an interesting one to pull off.

[Surgeon]

What sort of evidence do we have that Flynn lied, exactly?

[Gaidin]

I have the court documents.

And before you say it, one of the questions that Sullivan wants answered is this: Did Flynn lie to the FBI? Or did Flynn perjure himself about lying to the FBI?

[Surgeon]

Alright, what sort of evidence is available in the court documents? Is there a transcript of his phone calls vs what he told agents, or some kind of recordings, or...?

[B. W.]

It's interesting that you accuse me of lying and moving the goal post. Clearly, you're trying to project your position's own shortcomings to me. Otherwise, you'd tell us what I lied about and where I moved the goalpost to and from.

Let's see. Pages 4 and 5 seems to be revolving around the agents asking Flynn whether he discussed sanctions with Russia, aka Kisylak. He says no to discussing the vote in UN. That was one of the lies he was charged with. The other one was him denying that he talked about Russian response to the new sanctions. So, basically, thank you for linking the 302s that doesn't really say what you said about them. Did you drag your feet around because you knew the 302s didn't really show what you claimed them to show?

I've already proved you lied.

Don't forget the 302 you're referring to was altered by the FBI; even with that, it doesn't prove Flynn was lying.

Don't forget. Obama forced Flynn to answer questions of FBI agents without representation to advise. That was an interesting one to pull off.

Liberal fantasy never ceases to amaze me.

What sort of evidence do we have that Flynn lied, exactly?

There is no evidence that Flynn lied.

Here is the court document submitted by Mueller's team and Flynn's "admission of guilt" which he later withdrew:

https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download

When you read it you should be aware that Flynn's lawyer at the time withheld information against Flynn and the lawyer was also being pressured by the FBI because they were being investigated by the FBI.

Additionally, all the agents involved in assembling evidence against Flynn have been fired for LYING with the exception of Pieata who stated he didn't believe Flynn was lying. This means the FBI wasn't even in total agreement between themselves about what Flynn said.

In any other court in America this case would have been dismissed a long time ago.

[PointOfViewGun]

Michael Flynn: judge pauses justice department effort to dismiss case

A federal judge has put the justice department’s decision to dismiss a criminal case against Michael Flynn, Donald Trump’s former national security adviser, on hold – opening the door for legal experts and other outside parties to oppose the administration’s motion to exonerate Flynn of lying to the FBI.

The justice department said last week that the FBI had had no basis to question him, and federal prosecutors asked Sullivan to throw out their case against Flynn. None of the line prosecutors supervising the case signed the motion and one withdrew from the case.

US judge asks if Michael Flynn should be held in contempt for perjury

Michael Flynn could be charged with perjury as the fallout from Donald Trump’s attempt to exonerate his former national security adviser continues.

The Department of Justice announced last week it was dropping its case against Flynn amid pressure from Donald Trump and his political allies. Flynn had testified under oath that he had lied to the FBI, while he also lied to the vice-president, Mike Pence, about his conversations with the Russian ambassador during the transition from the Obama to the Trump administrations, about a possible easing of sanctions for interfering in the 2016 election.

The judge in Flynn’s case, however, on Wednesday asked a former federal judge to examine whether Flynn should face a criminal contempt charge for perjury, given Flynn later changed course and said he had not lied to the federal agency.

I've already proved you lied. Don't forget the 302 you're referring to was altered by the FBI; even with that, it doesn't prove Flynn was lying.

Not sure what lie you think you proved. It looks to be a deflection point at the moment. The 302s show that Flynn denied discussing the issues he was asked about that his phone transcriptions showed him to be discussing according to the FBI. So, they support the idea that he lied. It's interesting how you utilize doublespeak. On one side, the 302s show that Flynn didn't lie. On the other side, FBI altered the 302s. Those two don't sit well. Will you acknowledge your failure at this point?

[Gaidin]

Alright, what sort of evidence is available in the court documents? Is there a transcript of his phone calls vs what he told agents, or some kind of recordings, or...?

https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download

So. Did Flynn lie to the FBI. Or did Flynn perjure himself in court?

I know people like you really don't want to understand how federal documents work. But by affixing his name to that document with his attorney he is admitting in open court under penalty of perjury that he lied to the FBI(in and of itself a crime). So. If he is walking that back one of two things is happening. He either did lie to the FBI and someone is taking that case forward(not the DoJ if Barr has his way), or he perjured himself in open court by signing his own confession(something that judges don't like).

[Coughdrop addict]

Don't forget. Obama forced Flynn to answer questions of FBI agents without representation to advise. That was an interesting one to pull off.

It's amazing how the Trump cult pretend that Obama has all this power at his disposal. My answer to this is always then why did Obama let him get elected? Why not reveal his taxes, his loans, Stormy Daniels scandal, Michael Cohen, Manafort?

For almost four years the rubes have believed that they're on the verge of lining their enemies up in front of a firing squad, and still no charges, none against Hillary, Obama, or Biden. They're falling for the exact same hustle they did in the last election. I can't even imagine being such a sucker.