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Thread: Charges dropped against General Flynn

  1. #41

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    More is coming out about the illegal activities that Obama and company engaged in. The charges against Flynn are so unjust it is difficult to believe it took so long for the case to unravel. I think the biggest reason there is the fact that legacy media was (and is) so entrenched in the narrative they created there is no way out for them to be truthful and retain any right to legitimacy.

    Meanwhile, the devoted minions they have brainwashed over the last three and a half years will not listen to the truth because they are so invested in the false narrative. What is scary is just how close we Americans came to losing our country to a socialist minded group of "elites" who think they know better than us "deplorables " and the media was complicit in aiding them.

    Read and be astonished:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...cal-narrative/
    So, why did Flynn pleaded guilty to the charges? Was he such a wuss?
    The Armenian Issue

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, why did Flynn pleaded guilty to the charges? Was he such a wuss?
    If you were truly informed you wouldn't have to ask that question, but I'll be nice and clue you in.

    Flynn was broke financially. He had already sold his house and exhausted his savings when his law firm informed him that the FBI would prosecute his son (Logan Act) if he did not plea guilty. Co-incidentally, his law firm was at the same time under investigation and being pressured by the FBI to advise Flynn to accept the plea bargain (Flynn was unaware of this). Flynn apparently was also unaware that Eric Holder, Obama's AG, was a partner in the law firm that was representing him.

    When Flynn fired his defense team and hired Sidney Powell it was discovered that the FBI was withholding exculpatory evidence from Flynn's defense team. You should go back and read the Motion To Dismiss.

    So there. Quit make believing that innocent people don't plead guilty. It happens all the time.
    Last edited by alhoon; May 10, 2020 at 03:37 AM. Reason: personal reference removed

  3. #43
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    not surprising the legal team for the FBI is as draconian as thier hostage response team.

    why are more americans not calling for it to be disbanded. Its a clear and present danger to democracy everywhere

  4. #44

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    not surprising the legal team for the FBI is as draconian as thier hostage response team.

    why are more americans not calling for it to be disbanded. Its a clear and present danger to democracy everywhere
    Because there's this thing called crime that the FBI works to prevent. That Republicans have enthusiastically embraced crime and criminals is their moral failing, not any fault of the FBI.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    not surprising the legal team for the FBI is as draconian as thier hostage response team.

    why are more americans not calling for it to be disbanded. Its a clear and present danger to democracy everywhere
    Some still believe the lies they are told about the little good the FBI does outweighs the crimes they have committed.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; May 10, 2020 at 04:30 AM. Reason: Unnecessary.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    Some still believe the lies they are told about the little good the FBI does outweighs the crimes they have committed.
    So fighting organized crime that would turn our country into a lawless gangster state like Russia, preventing terrorism from the many armed groups in this country who have vowed to kill as many as possible to push their agendas, taking down multi-state child porn rings, all of that should stop because right wingers are outraged the little people had the audacity to act like one of them wasn't above the law?
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; May 10, 2020 at 04:30 AM. Reason: Continuity.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Not surprisingly, a liberal steps right up to prove my point. If you were truly informed you wouldn't have to ask that question, but I'll be nice and clue you in.

    Flynn was broke financially. He had already sold his house and exhausted his savings when his law firm informed him that the FBI would prosecute his son (Logan Act) if he did not plea guilty. Co-incidentally, his law firm was at the same time under investigation and being pressured by the FBI to advise Flynn to accept the plea bargain (Flynn was unaware of this). Flynn apparently was also unaware that Eric Holder, Obama's AG, was a partner in the law firm that was representing him.

    When Flynn fired his defense team and hired Sidney Powell it was discovered that the FBI was withholding exculpatory evidence from Flynn's defense team. You should go back and read the Motion To Dismiss.

    So there. Quit make believing that innocent people don't plead guilty. It happens all the time.
    It's also important to note that Flynn was seeking to withdraw his plea. I don't know the legal details, but I believe his lawyers were attempting to argue that the plea had not been made knowingly and voluntarily. Either way, there's now a substantial body of evidence pointing to the fact that the certain senior members of the FBI were determined to damage Flynn, even though they knew that no crime had been committed during his conversation with Kislyak.
    Last edited by Cope; May 10, 2020 at 05:56 PM.



  8. #48
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    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    It's also important to note that Flynn was seeking to withdrawn his plea. I don't know the legal details, but I believe his lawyers were attempting to argue that the plea had not been made knowingly and voluntarily. Either way, there's now a substantial body of evidence pointing to the fact that the certain senior members of the FBI were determined to damage Flynn, even though they knew that no crime had been committed during his conversation with Kislyak.
    You get the sense that the intention of the FBI was to slowly flip their way through a number of extra people against whom there may have been more or better evidence emerge over time - the way you'd approach a crime boss from the bottom up... but that the trail was too difficult to unravel - especially given the high profile and difficult nature of working on political crimes potentially involving the president. So the arrests stopped with those against whom the charges were always iffy at worst, dependent on strong armed confessions at best.

    I don't think this actually means anything to anything. My feelings have always been that there didn't need to be collaboration between Trump and Putin. Putin was going to do what Putin was going to do and everyone else was just doing dodgy politics as per usual.
    Last edited by alhoon; May 10, 2020 at 03:36 AM. Reason: continuity
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  9. #49

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    If you were truly informed you wouldn't have to ask that question, but I'll be nice and clue you in.
    Flynn was broke financially. He had already sold his house and exhausted his savings when his law firm informed him that the FBI would prosecute his son (Logan Act) if he did not plea guilty. Co-incidentally, his law firm was at the same time under investigation and being pressured by the FBI to advise Flynn to accept the plea bargain (Flynn was unaware of this). Flynn apparently was also unaware that Eric Holder, Obama's AG, was a partner in the law firm that was representing him.
    When Flynn fired his defense team and hired Sidney Powell it was discovered that the FBI was withholding exculpatory evidence from Flynn's defense team. You should go back and read the Motion To Dismiss.
    So there. Quit make believing that innocent people don't plead guilty. It happens all the time.
    So, basically, purely based on what you say, Flynn, an ex USA lieutenant general who served as the director of defense intelligence agency, who setup an intelligence services company after leaving the military, who served as the national security advisor to Trump, could be manipulated and bought out. Interesting. Will he be prosecuted for lying under oath since he pleaded guilty? That would be interesting as well since the president told us that Flynn lied to the vice president and the FBI as well. So, perhaps Trump was also going bankrupt because of a conspiracy that he played along with Flynn's story?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    It's also important to note that Flynn was seeking to withdrawn his plea. I don't know the legal details, but I believe his lawyers were attempting to argue that the plea had not been made knowingly and voluntarily. Either way, there's now a substantial body of evidence pointing to the fact that the certain senior members of the FBI were determined to damage Flynn, even though they knew that no crime had been committed during his conversation with Kislyak.
    Is lying to the FBI a crime?
    The Armenian Issue

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, basically, purely based on what you say, Flynn, an ex USA lieutenant general who served as the director of defense intelligence agency, who setup an intelligence services company after leaving the military, who served as the national security advisor to Trump, could be manipulated and bought out. Interesting. Will he be prosecuted for lying under oath since he pleaded guilty? That would be interesting as well since the president told us that Flynn lied to the vice president and the FBI as well. So, perhaps Trump was also going bankrupt because of a conspiracy that he played along with Flynn's story?




    Is lying to the FBI a crime?
    Flynn will not be prosecuted. That's a fantasy that the left can forget about. As for your assertion concerning Trump's statement on Flynn lying; he was relying on the information coming from the DOJ (Comey, don't forget that Trump later fired Comey) that we now know was false.

    And since you're wondering how Flynn allowed himself to be snared by the FBI in a gotcha trap; he was expecting that government officials would be following the law and it turns out that was not the case.

    Just how bad was the Obama administration spying on Trump and associates? This gives a glimpse into just how badly the system was abused by Obama and Co.:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...esident-obama/

    What the article doesn't say is that as soon as Rogers found out what was going on he went strait to the Trump campaign headquarters in Trump Tower and spoke to Trump directly. The Trump campaign moved its headquarters that very same day. Watergate pales in comparison with what took place here.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Flynn will not be prosecuted. That's a fantasy that the left can forget about. As for your assertion concerning Trump's statement on Flynn lying; he was relying on the information coming from the DOJ (Comey, don't forget that Trump later fired Comey) that we now know was false.
    And since you're wondering how Flynn allowed himself to be snared by the FBI in a gotcha trap; he was expecting that government officials would be following the law and it turns out that was not the case.
    Just how bad was the Obama administration spying on Trump and associates? This gives a glimpse into just how badly the system was abused by Obama and Co.:
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...esident-obama/
    What the article doesn't say is that as soon as Rogers found out what was going on he went strait to the Trump campaign headquarters in Trump Tower and spoke to Trump directly. The Trump campaign moved its headquarters that very same day. Watergate pales in comparison with what took place here.
    Hmmm... Interesting how you try to frame the conversation. I guess you're assuming that Trump is acting solely on information from DoJ. By the way, Trump tweeted that months after he already fired Comey. One would assume he'd hesitate making such a claim or even reinstate Flynn back since, based on you, he was merely acting on information he got from people he fired. None of this, of course, changes the fact that Flynn lied to the government whether it was about his conduct or his admission of lying. He misled the government for personal gain.

    That article also doesn't exactly how Obama is panicking. It's clearly an attempt at sensationalism. Great standards to show it up to the main stream media.
    The Armenian Issue

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Because there's this thing called crime that the FBI works to prevent
    what a wonderful neo-liberal fantasy world you live in

    the FBI creates crime. The ATF spreads illegal guns. The DEA sells drugs. The CIA causes foreign policy dangers to the USA. The NSA spreads fear and paranoia to the general population, not to terrorists. All of these organizations are for controlling you. They are the modern day Praetorian guard with a knife at the emperor's back.
    Last edited by RedGuard; May 10, 2020 at 12:02 PM.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Hmmm... Interesting how you try to frame the conversation. I guess you're assuming that Trump is acting solely on information from DoJ. By the way, Trump tweeted that months after he already fired Comey. One would assume he'd hesitate making such a claim or even reinstate Flynn back since, based on you, he was merely acting on information he got from people he fired. None of this, of course, changes the fact that Flynn lied to the government whether it was about his conduct or his admission of lying. He misled the government for personal gain.

    That article also doesn't exactly how Obama is panicking. It's clearly an attempt at sensationalism. Great standards to show it up to the main stream media.
    The exculpatory information on Flynn only came out recently. The FBI had kept it from scrutiny, so Trump would have no way of knowing. It's odd that certain obvious things don't occur to you.

    Additionally, we now know for certain that Flynn never lied or tried to misled anyone. The legacy media has pitched this narrative for so long and so frequently that it remains the "truth" in the back of minds of the people who have lapped up the fake news stories like it was ice cream candy.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    not surprising the legal team for the FBI is as draconian as thier hostage response team.

    why are more americans not calling for it to be disbanded. Its a clear and present danger to democracy everywhere
    There is, in fact, a party that at least pays lip service to the idea of smaller government and the rolling back of legislation and practices that curtail liberty. Whether or not they can live up to those ideals in the end? Well, that's the elephant in the room...

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    lip service maybe, but I don't want to trade government power for corporate power either

  16. #56

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    The exculpatory information on Flynn only came out recently. The FBI had kept it from scrutiny, so Trump would have no way of knowing. It's odd that certain obvious things don't occur to you.

    Additionally, we now know for certain that Flynn never lied or tried to misled anyone. The legacy media has pitched this narrative for so long and so frequently that it remains the "truth" in the back of minds of the people who have lapped up the fake news stories like it was ice cream candy.
    Interesting. Earlier you tried to tie Trump firing Comey to this case, yet, now I'm somehow deficient for not realizing that Trump couldn't have known Comey misled him till now. Interesting. In your short-term attempt at gaining points you have made a trailing mess behind you. Oh, we know for certain that Flynn lied one way or an other. You can't have it both ways. He either lied about his conduct to the FBI, or he lied when he pleaded guilty twice. These clear attempts at childish insults merely belittle your own position. You show us how little merit those positions contain. In reality, there is no new development that suggests Flynn didn't lie at all.

    Whats really happening here is quite obvious actually. FBI wanted Flynn similar to how they'd get mafia bosses through tax evasion charges. Similar to how FBI wanted Flynn, attorney general Barr wanted him off the hook. Flynn played his cards well with playing both sides. Hence the twist. So far no document is presented to change what Flynn stated and did. What he stated to the FBI back then, his conduct, continues to be false. No new substance is presented to invalidate that verdict. It's like finding out that explanation of a crime that was caught on tape was found out to be taped illegally, hence, the suspect walks free.

    As a result, some people are trying to celebrate this as a win in defense of Trump and his team. They want this as the cake they think it is and they want to eat. That's why we point out the worms and bugs crawling in their rotten cake they feel the need to belittle their opponents not through the logic and facts of their case but through vague insults.
    The Armenian Issue

  17. #57

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    lip service maybe, but I don't want to trade government power for corporate power either
    The decision to trade is easy. Both want your money, but only one wants your money and liberty.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    what a wonderful neo-liberal fantasy world you live in

    the FBI creates crime. The ATF spreads illegal guns. The DEA sells drugs. The CIA causes foreign policy dangers to the USA. The NSA spreads fear and paranoia to the general population, not to terrorists. All of these organizations are for controlling you. They are the modern day Praetorian guard with a knife at the emperor's back.
    And Soros is controlling it all from behind the scenes right? He was also three different crisis actors at Sandy Hook. He's a busy guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    The decision to trade is easy. Both want your money, but only one wants your money and liberty.
    Not at all. We tried letting corporations have power and regulate themselves in the 19th and early 20th centuries. What we learned was that they will abuse and exploit their employees (among other things paying them in company pay chits that can only be used at the company store), cheat and endanger their customers (patent medicines filled with morphine, unsanitary food products), and send thugs to beat or kill anyone who complains, all while buying political power and controlling public opinion. Cheating and abuse provide such huge advantages that the corporations actually run by honest people will inevitably be driven out of business unless they start to cheat too. In essence without government over site corporations will become just as ruthless and deadly as drug cartels. I'll take government over a corporation any day. While democratic government ultimately answers to the people, corporations answer only to profit.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Straw clutching. People are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. There is not, nor ever has there been, a need for an investigation to find a suspect innocent. The report - and now these released witness testimonies - show that there was no evidence for a Russian conspiracy. The public was systematically lied to about this by senior Democrats and their friends in the press.
    The only straw-clutching here, is the attempt to paint a narrative that the President is some kind of a victim. I don't need visual evidence of the President fornicating with a Russian prostitute. The fact that there is reason to believe that the President was involved with Russians, that the President is unco-operative with the investigation, and that we ultimately cannot clear his name from suspicion, is reason enough to make him unfit for office. Among various other things, like his limited intellectual capacity.

    At least you're finally conceding that impeachment was a political (electoral) calculation rather than a gallant crusade to save the Constitution or protect the republic. Took you long enough.
    Both actions you've mentioned are inherently political acts. One's man crusade is another man's reckoning.

    We're talking about the legal defence, not the political one.
    Indeed, we are. And my point is that the result of the impeachment trial is not an indication of how good the legal argument was. A sticky note with the words "Not Guilty" would've been sufficient for Senate Republicans to exonerate him.

    As per Dershowitz's argument, politicians routinely "weaponize" their power and influence for their own political ends or subordinate the national interest for their personal interests. That's just a fact of life. It's why Obama did nothing when Assad crossed certain "red lines"; it's why Congress refuses(d) to investigate Bush's Iraq War lies; its why the DNC tried to rig the 2016 primaries against Sanders; it's why Pelosi slowed the distribution of relief checks by insisting that they were issued by the states rather than the federal govt; its why a sophisticated disinformation campaign was spun about Russia collusion; and its why, even according to you, the Dems tried to impeach Trump.
    That's not a justification for Trump's actions. A sophisticated appeal to hypocrisy doesn't make Trump's actions any less impeachable, or any more relevant to the interests of the State. Spoiler, they weren't, hence why the outrage.

    Acting as if the president's attempt to have the Bidens investigated for political reasons (allegedly) was crime of the century worthy of an unprecedented response by Congress is, and always was, partisan nonsense. The issue of whether political manoeuvring is legitimate or not is matter for the electorate, not, as I've said, the courts or an impeachment trial.
    You can claim that it was, yet you have not one the footwork to even begin to justify that statement.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Charges dropped against General Flynn

    Former DOJ official: Department twisted my words in motion to drop Flynn case



    A former top Justice Department official in an op-ed for The New York Times on Sunday accused the department of twisting her words in order to make the case that former national security adviser Michael Flynn should not be prosecuted for lying to the FBI.

    In the column, former acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security Mary McCord accused top officials of a "disingenuous" use of statements she made to the Justice Department following her retirement from the agency in order to explain why the department would no longer pursue charges against Flynn. In a motion to dismiss the case against Flynn on Thursday, Barr and acting U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Timothy Shea cited an interview with McCord more than two dozen times to suggest that the FBI's interview with Flynn was unwarranted.

    "The account of my interview in 2017 doesn’t help the department support this conclusion, and it is disingenuous for the department to twist my words to suggest that it does," McCord wrote.

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