Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst 123456789101112 LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 225

Thread: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

  1. #161
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Permanent Lockdown
    Posts
    2,339

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    You are crying that the US president is unfit because he said something stupid, I remember when US presidents would invade and bomb countries in the Middle East.
    Donald J Trump is actually the most pacifist president we had in a while, all he did was assasinate Qassem Soleimani, which is an extremely low body count for an US president. We had the historic summits between Trump and Kim Jong-Un, putting an end to 70 years of conflict. He wanted to ease tensions with Russia, for which he was mercilessly attacked. Generally Mr. Trump prefers to resolve conflicts like a businessman, were both sides haggle until a deal is struck, and not trying to vanquish the other.

    An an ousider i prefer a US president like Mr. Trump who is more inward looking and interested in domestic issues, rather than a Neo-Con war hawk who wants to make the world suffer with the full might of the US military complex.

  2. #162

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    You are crying that the US president is unfit because he said something stupid, I remember when US presidents would invade and bomb countries in the Middle East.
    Donald J Trump is actually the most pacifist president we had in a while, all he did was assasinate Qassem Soleimani, which is an extremely low body count for an US president. We had the historic summits between Trump and Kim Jong-Un, putting an end to 70 years of conflict. He wanted to ease tensions with Russia, for which he was mercilessly attacked. Generally Mr. Trump prefers to resolve conflicts like a businessman, were both sides haggle until a deal is struck, and not trying to vanquish the other.

    An an ousider i prefer a US president like Mr. Trump who is more inward looking and interested in domestic issues, rather than a Neo-Con war hawk who wants to make the world suffer with the full might of the US military complex.
    Your preference for this spineless coward doesn't detract from the fact that he is obviously unsuited to high office.He hasn'tsaid just one stupid thing, every press conference of late adds to the body of fail.
    I'm as critical of the Bush/Blair wars and the aftermath as the next man, but let's not forget Trump's efforts to undermine peace with Iran. just because Obama signed a deal with them, and how he nearly started an all out Gulf War until Iran gave him the chance to stand down by giving the US the lightest of retaliations. He's happy to suck up to communist and post-communist dictators, but he's a menace to his NATO allies.

    If mobs invaded public buildings with guns, just because they are too restless to obey the simplest instructions that will save lives, in any country outside the US, you would see arrests. But he calls these loons'good people'. Not surprising given the presence of Confederate and Nazi symbology.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  3. #163
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Permanent Lockdown
    Posts
    2,339

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Yes, i prefer a "spineless coward" who doesn't weaponize NATO to kill people because dictators exist. Obama was the most overrated president in US history, winning the Nobel peace prize because he is black and then creating the whole mess in the Middle East with Arab Spring/refugee crisis and allowing the rise of ISIS.
    Trump may use harsh language and pressure, especially against Iran and China, but i have a hard time believing he actually wants a military conflict.

    America's whole identity revolves around freedom. Unsurprisingly if you take away basic freedoms in the name of security, americans revolt. Those "simple instructions" kill the economy. But to mongrel they are Nazis and have already forfeit their rights, proving once again that leftists are the real fascists.

  4. #164
    irontaino's Avatar Pizza time!
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    3,952

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    You are crying that the US president is unfit because he said something stupid, I remember when US presidents would invade and bomb countries in the Middle East.
    Donald J Trump is actually the most pacifist president we had in a while, all he did was assasinate Qassem Soleimani, which is an extremely low body count for an US president. We had the historic summits between Trump and Kim Jong-Un, putting an end to 70 years of conflict. He wanted to ease tensions with Russia, for which he was mercilessly attacked. Generally Mr. Trump prefers to resolve conflicts like a businessman, were both sides haggle until a deal is struck, and not trying to vanquish the other.

    An an ousider i prefer a US president like Mr. Trump who is more inward looking and interested in domestic issues, rather than a Neo-Con war hawk who wants to make the world suffer with the full might of the US military complex.
    Then Donald Trump is not your guy. Literally nothing changed in Korea, other than Trump getting a photo op. The second he left, they went right back to building and testing missiles. So he's horribly incompetent at running the country with this botched Covid-19 response, definitely not all the way there (see his suggestion of injecting disinfectant or the incoherent babbling at any of his pressers), and has only expanded the US military presence abroad.
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
    Under the patronage of big daddy Elfdude


  5. #165

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Yes, i prefer a "spineless coward" who doesn't weaponize NATO to kill people because dictators exist. Obama was the most overrated president in US history, winning the Nobel peace prize because he is black and then creating the whole mess in the Middle East with Arab Spring/refugee crisis and allowing the rise of ISIS.
    Trump may use harsh language and pressure, especially against Iran and China, but i have a hard time believing he actually wants a military conflict.

    America's whole identity revolves around freedom. Unsurprisingly if you take away basic freedoms in the name of security, americans revolt. Those "simple instructions" kill the economy. But to mongrel they are Nazis and have already forfeit their rights, proving once again that leftists are the real fascists.
    It's strange you take such a strong issue with Obama, who has started no wars, withdrew troops from hot zones, and actively did as much as possible to keep American boots off the ground. This is in stark contrast to Trump, who has actively destabilized relations with Iran and China in an incredibly sloppy way.

    Otherwise, I really don't see much difference. Obama's blunders in Middle East allowed Syria and Libya to become desert ruins. Just as Donald Trump has actively promoted similar fates in Yemen and Venezuela. Drone strikes continue to this day, and Trump continues to shill for Saudi Arabia and Israel. Yet Obama is the most overrated President while Trump is the "most pacifist President". I mean, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. It's okay to have a political bias, that doesn't explain the stark difference of opinion between the two in regards to foreign policy despite achieving the same results.

  6. #166
    chriscase's Avatar Princess Thunderballs
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,535

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    ​Please keep the discussion reasonably close to the topic as defined in the OP.
    Last edited by chriscase; May 13, 2020 at 02:20 AM. Reason: Reopening

  7. #167

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    The President was speaking in the context of heat and light, but never underestimate the media's lust to spin his words into something he didn't mean:

    As he thinks the sun shines out of his arse, I guess Trump is confident of getting a fair amount of internal healing light.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  8. #168
    Jom's Avatar A Place of Greater Safety
    Content Emeritus Administrator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,472

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Trump didn't "muse on whether disinfectant could be used to treat cases of C-19". He remarked upon the the effectiveness of disinfectant in destroying the virus, and wondered if this could be replicated in treatment. He specifically clarified in the same interview that he did not intend to "suggest" that people should inject disinfectant (although disinfectants are sometimes used in vaccines). The liberal press' politicized reaction - which fused grossly uncharitable interpretations of Trump's comments with condescension and hysteria - was, as ever, unwarranted.
    And what exactly is the value of that remark? We all know that disinfectant destroys viruses and bacteria and that the mechanism for its disruption of the proteins that make them up is indiscriminate between pathogens and human cells. What exactly is the value of saying "If only we could get something as effective as bleach"? At best you're trying to say his insight is completely worthless.

    And which disinfectants are sometimes used in vaccines?

    "For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."

  9. #169

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom View Post
    And which disinfectants are sometimes used in vaccines?
    Formaldehyde and thiomersal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  10. #170
    Jom's Avatar A Place of Greater Safety
    Content Emeritus Administrator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,472

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Formaldehyde and thiomersal.
    Thanks, didn't know they could be used in that way. I think it's important to note that they're injected as part of vaccines to help neutralise the pathogens being injected; they're never used (to my knowledge) to kill off pathogens already present in the body, which is what Trump seems to have wanted, otherwise why mention them at all? Their being included in vaccines isn't exactly innovative, and he wasn't talking about development of a vaccine, but some sort of treatment for covid-19.
    Last edited by Jom; May 14, 2020 at 08:43 AM.

    "For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."

  11. #171

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    The UK is officially in a recession due to covid-19 fear mongering and governmental tyranny. More nations will soon follow, chiefly the United States, which now has more people out of work than it did during the great depression. With countries that never reached the same levels of shut down like Sweden and the Netherlands tracking similar infection and death rates as those who did completely shut down, one has to wonder: is destroying the world economy, bringing back bread lines, seeing millions of people out of work and unable to pay their mortgage, lose their businesses, not able to receive treatment for other illnesses - is this all worth it? The answer is resoundingly no. Those who claim social isolation is saving lives conveniently ignore the fact that social isolation and the shut down have real and impactful externalities which are actually likely to lead to people dying as well. The average life expectancy in America fell over the past decade due to the opioid crisis, and addiction problems are directly linked to economic health.

    When it comes to Covid 19, it should be clear at this point: the cure is worse than the disease.

  12. #172
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    4,834

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom View Post
    And what exactly is the value of that remark? We all know that disinfectant destroys viruses and bacteria and that the mechanism for its disruption of the proteins that make them up is indiscriminate between pathogens and human cells. What exactly is the value of saying "If only we could get something as effective as bleach"? At best you're trying to say his insight is completely worthless.
    The president has dedicated hundreds of hours to press conferences; you finding a particular few seconds to be inconsequential isn't what we're discussing. What we're discussing is how those few seconds were manipulated into an hysterical narrative which has been regurgitated across society (including here). In the service of truth, I noted that the president did not suggest injecting bleach, nor to the honest observer did he. By pivoting to an argument about the value of the remarks, you seem to be acknowledging the validity of my position, even if you're still going to insist that "orange man bad".

    And which disinfectants are sometimes used in vaccines?
    This has already been answered both by myself and by sumskilz.
    Last edited by Cope; May 14, 2020 at 10:53 AM.

  13. #173

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    The UK is officially in a recession due to covid-19 fear mongering and governmental tyranny. More nations will soon follow, chiefly the United States, which now has more people out of work than it did during the great depression. With countries that never reached the same levels of shut down like Sweden and the Netherlands tracking similar infection and death rates as those who did completely shut down, one has to wonder: is destroying the world economy, bringing back bread lines, seeing millions of people out of work and unable to pay their mortgage, lose their businesses, not able to receive treatment for other illnesses - is this all worth it? The answer is resoundingly no. Those who claim social isolation is saving lives conveniently ignore the fact that social isolation and the shut down have real and impactful externalities which are actually likely to lead to people dying as well. The average life expectancy in America fell over the past decade due to the opioid crisis, and addiction problems are directly linked to economic health.

    When it comes to Covid 19, it should be clear at this point: the cure is worse than the disease.
    Bah, dead people are incapable of work or producing wealth.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  14. #174

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    More nations will soon follow, chiefly the United States, which now has more people out of work than it did during the great depression. With countries that never reached the same levels of shut down like Sweden and the Netherlands tracking similar infection and death rates as those who did completely shut down, one has to wonder: is destroying the world economy, bringing back bread lines, seeing millions of people out of work and unable to pay their mortgage, lose their businesses, not able to receive treatment for other illnesses - is this all worth it? The answer is resoundingly no. Those who claim social isolation is saving lives conveniently ignore the fact that social isolation and the shut down have real and impactful externalities which are actually likely to lead to people dying as well. The average life expectancy in America fell over the past decade due to the opioid crisis, and addiction problems are directly linked to economic health.

    When it comes to Covid 19, it should be clear at this point: the cure is worse than the disease.
    Breaking News!

    Man who blindly votes Republican finally realises that they don't actually care about people. More at 7pm...
    Last edited by alhoon; May 14, 2020 at 02:15 PM.

  15. #175

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Bah, dead people are incapable of work or producing wealth.
    Warning, graphic images of dead bodies from coronavirus being bulldozed into mass graves: oh wait nevermind, it's actually more unused, unneeded field hospitals closing. The Karens of the world will be outraged.

  16. #176

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    The UN's predicting famines that could affect 100+ million people due to shutdowns. Don't worry though, it'll mostly be happening to blacks and browns in s-hole countries so no skin off the shutdowners' backs. Let's have another 'reee you want poors to die' for those in the back.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  17. #177

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    The UN's predicting famines that could affect 100+ million people due to shutdowns. Don't worry though, it'll mostly be happening to blacks and browns in s-hole countries so no skin off the shutdowners' backs. Let's have another 'reee you want poors to die' for those in the back.
    How dare you? It is far more important that we protect the precious lives of, especially diabetic and obese, 75+ year old white people in retirement homes - the browns have become martyrs to something bigger than them, something they couldn't possibly comprehend.

  18. #178
    Jom's Avatar A Place of Greater Safety
    Content Emeritus Administrator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,472

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The president has dedicated hundreds of hours to press conferences; you finding a particular few seconds to be inconsequential isn't what we're discussing. What we're discussing is how those few seconds were manipulated into an hysterical narrative which has been regurgitated across society (including here). In the service of truth, I noted that the president did not suggest injecting bleach, nor to the honest observer did he. By pivoting to an argument about the value of the remarks, you seem to be acknowledging the validity of my position, even if you're still going to insist that "orange man bad".
    Nope, that's what "at best" means. And Dr Birx's reaction was to the words as they were coming out of Trump's mouth, not after any kind of manipulation by the media. She didn't seem too happy with what he was saying, so I think it's a fair interpretation of his suggestions that people could be expected to arrive at without any prompting from the media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    The UK is officially in a recession due to covid-19 fear mongering and governmental tyranny. More nations will soon follow, chiefly the United States, which now has more people out of work than it did during the great depression. With countries that never reached the same levels of shut down like Sweden and the Netherlands tracking similar infection and death rates as those who did completely shut down, one has to wonder: is destroying the world economy, bringing back bread lines, seeing millions of people out of work and unable to pay their mortgage, lose their businesses, not able to receive treatment for other illnesses - is this all worth it? The answer is resoundingly no. Those who claim social isolation is saving lives conveniently ignore the fact that social isolation and the shut down have real and impactful externalities which are actually likely to lead to people dying as well. The average life expectancy in America fell over the past decade due to the opioid crisis, and addiction problems are directly linked to economic health.

    When it comes to Covid 19, it should be clear at this point: the cure is worse than the disease.
    Let's look at a country which hasn't had an extensive lockdown to test whether the restarting of economic activity that you're calling for really does help:




    People's fears about being infected with coronavirus can pose a bigger threat to the economy than the government-ordered restrictions that were put in place to prevent the epidemic's spread, according to Bengt Holmström, the Nobel prize-winning Finnish economist.
    Source

    Guess what helps alleviate people's fears? Controlling the spread of the virus and people knowing that there will be a bed and a ventilator available for them in the nearest hospital if they do happen to fall ill.

    And if your definition of tyranny is being paid 80% of your wage to stay at home watching Netflix, then maybe more governments should be tyrannical like the British one.

    So in conclusion: the virus is causing the economic damage, not the lockdown, and if you want the damage to end faster, get over being in lockdown, stop going out, and this will all be over a lot faster.

    "For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."

  19. #179
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    4,834

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom View Post
    Nope, that's what "at best" means. And Dr Birx's reaction was to the words as they were coming out of Trump's mouth, not after any kind of manipulation by the media. She didn't seem too happy with what he was saying, so I think it's a fair interpretation of his suggestions that people could be expected to arrive at without any prompting from the media.
    A fair interpretation would be to assume that the president was referring to potential treatments which could safely harness the anti-viral properties of the disinfectants mentioned by Bryan. This is not least since he clarified in the same interview that he was not talking about injecting bleach. The alternative interpretations offered by the liberal press (which operated on the premise that Trump was unaware that injecting or ingesting bleach is hazardous and ignored his clarification) were a consequence of confirmation bias and political shilling.

    The success of the Swedish economy is contingent on the health and prosperity of global markets; even had it suffered zero C-19 casualties it would have suffered significantly as a result of what's occurring outside its borders. The argument isn't whether it Sweden will be damaged, its whether it will be damaged as much as it would have been had it opted for a lockdown. If you read beyond the headlines, you get to the detail showing that Sweden is projected to suffer notably less economic damage than comparable neighbouring states.

    Quote Originally Posted by FT
    Ms Nyman said she believed that without the no-lockdown policy, Sweden would have been harder hit, as in 2008. “If we didn’t have these better circumstances, we would have done worse. Usually, we are more severely hit by a global recession,” she added.

    Economists at Swedish bank SEB estimate Sweden’s GDP will drop 6.5 per cent this year, about the same as the US and Germany, but a little better than Norway and ahead of 9-10 per cent falls in Finland and Denmark, all of which have had lockdowns.
    Guess what helps alleviate people's fears? Controlling the spread of the virus and people knowing that there will be a bed and a ventilator available for them in the nearest hospital if they do happen to fall ill.

    And if your definition of tyranny is being paid 80% of your wage to stay at home watching Netflix, then maybe more governments should be tyrannical like the British one.
    So in conclusion: the virus is causing the economic damage, not the lockdown, and if you want the damage to end faster, get over being in lockdown, stop going out, and this will all be over a lot faster.
    Lockdown is a short term solution designed to prevent the medical sector from being overwhelmed and to buy time for govts to acquire the necessary supplies, build the necessary infrastructure and organize society to cope with the disease. It is not a tenable solution in the medium to long term (which we are now approaching) and it will not cause the virus to be eradicated more quickly. States do not have the resources to furlough society indefinitely and we're rapidly approaching a scenario where many of those being paid "80% of their wage to sit at home and watch Netflix" won't have jobs to go back to.
    Last edited by Cope; May 15, 2020 at 03:47 AM.

  20. #180

    Default Re: Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

    Why do people that criticize the lock downs do so while trying to misrepresent the reality is beyond me. At certain point they're outright lying. No, Sweden didn't fare off better than its neighboring countries that enacted stricter lock down measures. In fact, Swedish death per capita due to COVID19 was higher by 2-3 depending on which country you compare it. Meanwhile, the Swedish economy is set to suffer a similar economic down turn. Netherlands also has one of the highest death per capita numbers in the world. If the question is whether it is OK to endure economic hardship to avoid unnecessary deaths of thousands of people and the answer is no, that is an extremely idiotic answer. If there is anything to criticize it is not enacting proper lock down measures. Just because governments didn't take enough measures in order to appease people that think like that it doesn't mean the lock downs are to blame. The cure is not worse than the disease. The disease is death and its not limited to people over 75 years old. The numbers are lower today because of the lock downs and social distancing measures. If there was no such measures they'd be much higher with more people that are younger than 70 dying. A lot more would die given the lack of capacity the healthcare system has. What these people advocate is mass murder. There is no other way to put it.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •