Javelins still broken, EDU help?

[Mullen18]

Hello

Absolutely love this mod but one thing is driving me crazy and I'd like to change it. I know very basic notepad++ and vaguely what files to edit.

I can't stand the bug where units stand idle in combat, I've read it's due to them still having ammo for the precursor weapon.
Cavalry can be very sluggish and unresponsive, even light cav. Again is this due to the missile units?
And lastly some units will charge ahead, seven or so men while the rest of the unit stays back when ordered to attack. Again is this all due to having ammo left?

Could someone advise me what would be best to change in EDU to stop this, its game breaking to me in battle when half the line is properly engaged and another flank is acting all weird.
I've tried reducing the unit sizes and testing battles but it still occurs.

The battle AI can be very good on the mod and its shame, I'm pretty sure the idle units don't contribute to the attack stats when facing another unit either (Could be wrong)

SO.

1. Would it be best to up the javelin range for skirmishers and line with precursor missiles? (So all the men would fire at once)
2. Would it be best to up the damage? (And also reduce the number of missile throw)
3. Would it be best to do remove precursor missiles entirely and just use skirmishers?

I've tried the Unreal submod and he has some interesting changes in battle and campaign but the missiles are too damaging for me, can shred a whole unit of hastati with a couple of volleys. In his submod I haven't noticed units standing idle and cavalry is very responsive so thats an improvement.

So what changes would be best to make?

If the changes work I could upload to the submods for anyone interested.

Cheers

Hope so someone can help me

[Lusitanio]

Well, honestly there isn't much that you can do besides increasing the range but it seems to be some problem with the square formation. From my personal testings, using this formation on the unit edu instead of the square one fixes the issue 0.5, 0.5, 1, 1, 6, horde

[Mullen18]

Hey dude!

Thanks alot for the quick reply

Would I simply find and replace all the units in the EDU with the square formation to the horde formation and stats you've posted?

[Lusitanio]

Why don't you modify two or three units, test it on a custom battle and see what formation you prefer?

Remember to edit the file with notepad ++

[Mullen18]

Reinstalling a fresh one 2.35 now dude

Will try the edits and post back in an hour so.

Will that then have the unintended side of effect of say hatasti or princeps fighting in loose formation rather than maintaining a line?

Also sorry, If I do like the changes would I be able to replace it for all units easily or would I have to edit them all individually?

If possible could I use your EDU if it were uploaded or sent by email, or would there be conflicts?

Cheers for the help!

[Lusitanio]

Yes, they will maintain a line but it will be a bit more loose and it won't be a square, more like a circle.

You would need to edit them all individually.

My EDU is not compatible with the current version of EBII, sorry.

[Mullen18]

Cool I've give it a shot in custom and see if its worth going through the EDU to change it all.

Of course you've got the newer version my mistake.

Any word on a new release? Had a read through the changelog for 235a. Got a lot of spare time right now ahaha

Thanks a lot for your help Lust!

[Lusitanio]

Of course you've got the newer version my mistake.

Yep

Any word on a new release? Had a read through the changelog for 235a. Got a lot of spare time right now ahaha

Thanks a lot for your help Lust!

You welcome mate! About the spare time, well, I'm working from home so I have never actually stopped working but don't worry, it will be released this year

[Mullen18]

So I gave it a try and didn't like the results. The units are literally in a balls haha

Also noticed some units still standing idle but generally combat did seem better and the early skirmishing at the start was brutal.

Not sure what else I can try

Could shieldwall or phalanx replace square?

[Mullen18]

Sorry to ask again but after playing "INVASIO BARBARORVM 2: CONQVESTVS BRITANNIAE III" I've noticed their missiles on line units seem to function as intended.

Here's the EDU;

type Comitatensis Gallic
dictionary Comitatensis_Gallic
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
accent Mediterranean
banner faction main_infantry
banner holy crusade
soldier Comitatensis_Gallic, 82, 0, 1
officer roman_officer
officer roman_draconarius
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, command
formation 1.0, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 4, square, shield_wall
stat_health 2, 0
stat_pri 28, 6, plumbata, 40, 5, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 15, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr thrown, prec
stat_sec 20, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 15, 1
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 17, 8, metal
;stat_armour_ex 9, 10, 11, 12, 9, 6, 6, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 1, 0, 2, 0
stat_mental 26, disciplined, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 450, 830, 260, 220, 540, 4, 130
armour_ug_levels 2, 3

Anything different in there?
Could it be the javelin animation EB2 uses, if so how would one go about changing them?

Again I do love this mod and not moaning in anyway!
I'd just like to sort the problem out and finally try for the Marian reforms.

EDIT

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...native-Battles

So after testing some more I've used just the formation ai changes that are compatible with 2.35 from this submod and it seems much better.
I haven't edited the EDU at all either.

The idle units seem to have gone!
It happened for a moment then they switched to their missiles, threw them and charged in.

Maybe the square formation isn't the bug? Could upping the range completly remove the units being idle (Btw by idle I mean the front men fighting while the rest hold their spears as if at rest, not overhand in combat)

Seems hopeful, will start a new campaign and see how it goes.

Maybe throw those two files into the new version?

[QuintusSertorius]

One thing I note from the IB2 unit is that they've got two formations listed - square and shield_wall. Only our phalanx units have two formations.

Interesting that it was the formation_ai.txt changes which had the most impact - we've never had much success editing that because it's so buggy.

Animations may play into it as well, in EBII they don't just throw from the shoulder at a stand, but run into it. That isn't going to change as far as we're concerned.

[Jervaj]

One question regarding to this. One of the things that are changing a lot in this patch (or at least was announced/mentioend) if I remember its how formations work. Downgrading overall the tidyness (highly_trained, trained and untrained) but also playign with other configs to differentiate some units from others.

Would you expect any of those changes to help with the charging or firing problems he comments? Have you found any other way of dealing with those from other mods examples or on your own?


Thanks in advance.

[Mullen18]

Right. More testing with some results!

So I've been doing the tests on 2 Hastati, 2 Priniceps and one Triari (All Camillian) against Carthage with liby phocians and 4 samnite spearmen. (excuse any spelling)
I upped the range of pilum to 90 (from 60) which they all use, it seems to give the animation more time to aim and throw before being engaged BUT I still noticed idle units.

I then tried the same battle on hard difficulty, noticed some idle units but they quickly threw whatever they had and charged in.

I think the combo of the formations AI changes and the hard difficulty might have finally made the AI realise what its units can do rather than bugging out.

Will try and few more battles using a wider variety of units with an unedited EDU.

I think changing the precursor ammo to '1' might help but I think I read somewhere its not possible, must be '2'.

EDIT:

Sorry to add.

How easy would it be to up all the ranges without unbalancing the game, slingers and archers could be left alone because the slow animation of line units throwing make up for it.
I've noticed some trends like 'pilum 60' and 'akon' 70, which I'd like to become 90 and 100.
But there's lots of different ranged weapons so upping them all could be difficult.

Unless its a simple case of find and replacing them?

EDIT EDIT:

Right.

Not editing the EDU is the way to go, I think the EB2 team have a done great job on balance all on. No range changes or damage or ammo.

The problem I think is tied to the animations in the descr_skeleton. (The file is totally new to me but the idle_animation and test and checks might have something to with it, maybe missing something so it loops?)
I've noticed this because in the Unreal submod his line units use the 'bow' icon when targeting an enemy rather than the 'javelin' icon.

So I'd like to try and replace the line units animations with the ones with the skirmishers use and see if the idle reloading bug goes away.

I could be wrong but I'll try anyway.

How would I do that?
This is new to me, which file or files would need to be edited?

I'm using notepad++, keeping vanilla EB2 files in case I balls something up.

EDIT EDIT EDIT:

I think I've noticed the issue in the animations.

When you guys removed the buggy kill animations is it possible you forgot to add back the defend animations?

Again could be totally wrong on my end.


EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT:

I've done it! It's gone.

All I've done is edited the EDU by replacing all the 'stat_pri_attr prec' with 'stat_pri_attr no'.

It said 97 changes had been made, not sure if that covers all infantry with the precursor trait.

Not sure if something is wrong with the trait but it seems to be the thing causing the issue.

Sorry for so many posts but it seems to have fixed the issue. Sure you can't do the cool charge anymore but you can just ALT SHIFT to queue the attack order.

Thank you!!

[Marvzilla]

Nice work. What do you mean with the charge, like they dont do the run up animation anymore ? Id like a solution to this aswell, I micromanage my units so those are fine but the AI struggles a lot with it.

[QuintusSertorius]

Unfortunately, we tried removing prec before; it created issues with the AI freezing in the "readying" part of the animation. It means only the human player can carry out proper infantry charges.

[Mullen18]

@Marzilla, no they still use the animation and run up to get momentum. I like it, I've seen people moan about it alot in the past but I like it. You have to choose to either skirmish with the enemy and break formation or withstand it and take losses but maintain shape. I play as the Romans and use a historical army set up and it play outs well in battle with the changes I've made. AI seems to do well too.

I think Hard battles are a must for the AI since they often don't have generals and like to run around a lot. The player guide states that the difficulty affects stamina and morale but it seems balanced on hard.

@Quintus I've been playing for a few hours now and this hasn't happened. I've played every battle so far.

No freezing at all with the units and the battles have been brilliant, like EB1 or RS2 on Rome. No problem with charges so far.

I think the formation AI from the Alternate battles submod is really working, the line units form up and all attack at once. There is less skirmishing but the battles overall and AI have been great.

Three changes if anyone wants to try it quickly?

Hard BAI difficulty, for Stamina and Morale Bonus (To compensate the AI often having no general in campaign for morale and to make up stamina for their tendency to run around)

Edit the EDU by replacing all the 'stat_pri_attr prec' with 'stat_pri_attr no' (Use find and replace all, I'm not sure that this will change all the units, Some might have something typed else after 'prec'.

Downloading the file in the first post of ; https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...native-Battles in post 15# a dude 'Domaje' states three files that still work with 2.35.

USE NOTEPAD++ AND MAKE COPIES OF EB2 FILES BEFORE YOU EDIT THEM. I'VE REINSTALLED THE WHOLE MOD SO MANY TIMES BECAUSE I DON'T DO THIS.

From playing the Roma campaign on H/H with the above changes its been brilliant so far, in 257BC following the First Punic War fighting for Sicily and Sardinia.

I've also used two changes that have played out quite well.

One is using the full version of this; https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...AI-Bonuses-Mod.
Seems to work very well, could create monsters late game though. Have played Rome up to 250-300 about 6 times now and keep starting again, have noticed good empires growing.

The other; https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...omani-Imperium.
It adds Imperium forever after their first consulship. Give the first few posts a read and you'll see, then follow post 2#. Still have to work up the cursus honorum though.

I've noticed the newer file has a rector_province line but adding the Roman_Rank 5 after still seems to work. Tested about 200 turns in, I'm not sure if it could break something but it works well.

All credit to the sub mod creators, I'm just using them and recommending them!

Cheers Guys!