Military Orders (Latin)

[Jurand of Cracow]

This thread will be devoted to gathering material about the Catholic Military Orders.


If you want to watch a documentary on the crusades, it is here: BBC three 45-min movies. For a historian it's a bit too dramatic and stereotypical, but so is our game.


To be dealt with in the future:

there should be a player information window about it...
... What are the requirements to recruit the military orders?
... Do you need to have mixed reputation? How many crosses do you need to have with the Pope?
... When do these recruiting units disappear?

I think a review of their recruitment is also needed
... (perhaps less available and you can only recruit a few in a long period of time to make them more valuable).
... The player should be given the opportunity to recruit them more often (perhaps permanently in the Holy Lands for all military orders, Iberian peninsula for Santiago order, and Teutonics in the Baltic lands).

... foot hospitaller knights in the first stage of order chapter but for teutonic knights the first stage is for mounted ritterbruders...
In most of my Italian settlements I can recruit Hospitallers and only in Palermo the Teutonics but unfortunately only the first level (cavalry) why is it?
On the other hand, the Templars didn't have a chapter house anymore and it would be easier to find them?

Knights of Santiago should only be recruitable in Iberia by the Catholic factions
but for the Iberians they could build them in other areas, also, above all, the Templars had numerous possessions throughout the Iberian Peninsula and helped in numerous battles against the infidels
... more Templar chapter house in Iberia and Templar reinforcements and European crusaders from time to time in the form of expeditions in Iberia.

[Jurand of Cracow]

General issues

Map of the Orders in the Holy Land

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Jurand of Cracow]

Knights Templars



I. Historical map

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

II. Units

to be developed

III. Buildings

[Jurand of Cracow]

Knights Hospitallers

The Hospitaller Order has been militarised sometime in mid-12th century. This should be somehow represented in the recruitment possibilities.

I. Historical map

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

II. Units

to be developed

III. Historical sources

Zsolt Hunyadi, 2010, The Hospitallers in the Medieval Kingdom of Hungary c. 1150–1387

.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Teutonic Knights

A good webpage

Here is 13th century armour wearing process.

I. Historical map

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

II. Units

to be developed

[Jurand of Cracow]

sorry guys, I've mixed something with these threads, I'll try to restore the previous, if possible

[Jurand of Cracow]

Reserved I

[Jurand of Cracow]

Spanish Military Orders


I. Historical map

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There're three issues:

(1) the unit:
Knights of Santiago - I haven't delved into it yet, I'm not sure which way to go. They may be only for the three Iberian factions (so if they expand to the Middle East, those Knights would appear also there), but they may also be typical only to Iberia (which means also other Latin factions would have access to).

(2) the building:
But the major issue and message is: due to 24-buildings-displayed limit, I've planned to cut down the max number of chapter houses in one settlement to 1. This will require a bit of thinking and design, and then coding because in some settlments many Military Orders had been historically present (Acre, Paris, Venice, London etc.). I'll use all 9 levels of the building line to produce historical combinations. Then I'd code it in the EDB, using hidden resources. This is going rather an extensive work.

(3) the historical events that allow setting up a building and (separately) recruitment of those Knights.
There's code in the script, but I haven't reviewed it yet, I don't remember what does it consists of.

[Navajo Joe]

JOC,

You might want to add the Knights of Calatrava, they were a substantial Spanish order, there is another I believe it is Montero or something like that.

NJ

[j.a.luna]

JOC,

You might want to add the Knights of Calatrava, they were a substantial Spanish order, there is another I believe it is Montero or something like that.

NJ

Yes, the first spanish military order was Calatrava, after was Santiago, the most famous, and also is represented in the game.The Order of Santiago is one of the most renowned military orders in the history of the world, its insignia being particularly recognisable and abundant in Western art.
The order of Montesa is for Crown of Aragon, and the rest(Santiago, Calatrava and Alcántara) were for castilians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_military_orders
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Santiago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Montesa

[Tripledot]

It seems that Burzenland in eastern Hungary was an autonomous fiefdom of the Teutonic Order. I think this justifies Hungary being able to construct a Teutonic Knights Major Chapter House (and thus have access to mounted Ritterbruders).

[Jurand of Cracow]

It seems that Burzenland in eastern Hungary was an autonomous fiefdom of the Teutonic Order. I think this justifies Hungary being able to construct a Teutonic Knights Major Chapter House (and thus have access to mounted Ritterbruders).

only 1211-1224 and were promtly kicked out of the country by the royal decree.
This province will has hidden resource for the TO (so HRE can build the units), but I don't think it justifies Hungary having the access.

[Thorbjorn Jagelund]

Hospitalier knights' banners are completely black, when under the control of Aragon or France. I haven't tried it on other factions but it seems unintended.

[Elendil 03]

There's a SS6.3 submod for the Teutonic Order and the Lithuanians. If I recall correctly, it has not been implemented for SS6.4 and it's also not listed in the SSHIP changelog.

Also, why not have the TO as AOR unit or tie their chapter houses to the broader region only? Had they not been invited by Conrad of Masovia, but a Hungarian noble, they would have answered as well.

[j.a.luna]

Regarding units for military orders, i think that is historical add sergeant class for all orders, not only templars as in the current game. Templars have so many units in the game as templars crossbowmen, templars squires, templar axe knights and others.

sship team( Kostic maybe) , could make a "sergeant class" for all these catholic orders with similar stats and weapons(spearmen) but differents clothes(historical) as is logical.

So my proposal is remove some templars units(for free slots if you need)as templar squires, crossbowmen.... and just leave knights and sergeants units for them.
Military orders will have knights and dismounted knights( with low availability) but also order sergeant spearmen and maybe mounted sergeant if you have enought free slots.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A interesant webpage about military orders:
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/templars.htm#popular
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/hospitallers.htm
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/teutonic.htm










SANTIAGO SERGEANTS









TEMPLAR SERGEANT









HOSPITALLER SERGEANT








TEUTONIC SERGEANT

[Tripledot]

The Knights Hospitaller originally served pilgrims in need of medical assistance- hence the name. I think it'd be nice if this was shown in their buildings. Having every Hospitaller chapter house give a chance to increase medical training might be too much, but I think the Church of the Holy Sepulchre wonder giving a 1 percent chance of granting the Medical Training skill for Catholics wouldn't be unbalancing.

[Jurand of Cracow]

The Knights Hospitaller originally served pilgrims in need of medical assistance- hence the name. I think it'd be nice if this was shown in their buildings. Having every Hospitaller chapter house give a chance to increase medical training might be too much, but I think the Church of the Holy Sepulchre wonder giving a 1 percent chance of granting the Medical Training skill for Catholics wouldn't be unbalancing.

This is a good idea, I'll make a following trigger:

;--------------------------------------------
Trigger Medical_Skill_Edu_Knight_Hospitallers
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEndInSettlement


Condition RemainingMPPercentage > 95
and SettlementBuildingExists > st_johns_major_ch
and Trait Intelligent > 5
and Trait Sane > 0
and RandomPercent > 80

Affects MedicalSkill 1 Chance 5

[j.a.luna]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Regarding units for military orders, i think that is historical add sergeant class for all orders, not only templars as in the current game. Templars have so many units in the game as templars crossbowmen, templars squires, templar axe knights and others.

sship team( Kostic maybe) , could make a "sergeant class" for all these catholic orders with similar stats and weapons(spearmen) but differents clothes(historical) as is logical.

So my proposal is remove some templars units(for free slots if you need)as templar squires, crossbowmen.... and just leave knights and sergeants units for them.
Military orders will have knights and dismounted knights( with low availability) but also order sergeant spearmen and maybe mounted sergeant if you have enought free slots.


A interesant webpage about military orders:
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/templars.htm#popular
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/hospitallers.htm
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/teutonic.htm










SANTIAGO SERGEANTS









TEMPLAR SERGEANT









HOSPITALLER SERGEANT








TEUTONIC SERGEANT

sship developers, are you going to make any changes in the next version regarding religious orders?
my proposals were to add sergeants and support units for all orders, or a generic unit called "order sergeants" for all orders similar to ordinary spearmen sergeants units.

And on the other hand to say if it is possible to have permanent units of religious orders (Santiago, templars ...) in Iberia to fight against the Moors, or at least until the entire Iberian Peninsula has been conquered.

What is your opinion???

[removeduser_28376423423]

Regarding units for military orders, i think that is historical add sergeant class for all orders, not only templars as in the current game. Templars have so many units in the game as templars crossbowmen, templars squires, templar axe knights and others.

sship team (Kostic maybe), could make a "sergeant class" for all these catholic orders with similar stats and weapons(spearmen) but differents clothes(historical) as is logical.

I'm in favor of giving them spears as primary and swords (spanish orders, hospitallers) or swords mixed with axes (teutonic, templar, holy sepulchre) as secondary, would that be difficult? I think it would be both realistic and tactical gameplay wise.

[RodriguesSting]

You can get crusade troops outside crusades in the Pyrenees.

; ==================== SPAIN ====================================================================================

pool Pyrenees
regions Toledo_Province Pamplona_Province Zaragoza_Province Valencia_Province Barcelona_Province Palma_Province Burgos_Province
unit merc galley, exp 3 cost 675 replenish 0.36 - 1.0 max 1 initial 1 religions { catholic } crusading
unit merc galley, exp 3 cost 675 replenish 0.36 - 1.0 max 1 initial 1 religions { islam } crusading
; unit merc galley, exp 3 cost 1350 replenish 0.02 - 0.10 max 1 initial 1
unit Mercenary Frankish Knights exp 3 cost 804 replenish 0.03 - 0.13 max 1 initial 0 start_year 1210 end_year 1300 religions { catholic orthodox }
unit Mercenary Knights exp 3 cost 1256 replenish 0.03 - 0.13 max 2 initial 1 start_year 1300 religions { catholic orthodox }
unit Mercenary Crossbowmen exp 2 cost 360 replenish 0.03 - 0.09 max 1 initial 0 end_year 1300
unit Mercenary Pavise Crossbowmen exp 2 cost 599 replenish 0.03 - 0.09 max 1 initial 1 start_year 1350
unit Mercenary Arquebusiers exp 4 cost 803 replenish 0.04 - 0.13 max 1 initial 0 start_year 1450 events { gunpowder_discovered }
unit Arbalesters exp 3 cost 444 replenish 0.03 - 0.09 max 1 initial 1 start_year 1380
unit Mercenary Spearmen exp 2 cost 501 replenish 0.05 - 0.15 max 2 initial 1 { catholic } start_year 1150
unit Catalans exp 6 cost 309 replenish 0.06 - 0.18 max 2 initial 1 start_year 1300
unit Javelinmen exp 3 cost 910 replenish 0.08 - 0.15 max 2 initial 1
unit Free Company Longbowmen exp 4 cost 514 replenish 0.04 - 0.13 max 2 initial 1 start_year 1300
unit Crusader Knights exp 2 cost 676 replenish 0.03 - 0.07 max 1 initial 0 religions { catholic } end_year 1300
unit Crusader Sergeants exp 1 cost 663 replenish 0.05 - 0.1 max 2 initial 0 religions { catholic } end_year 1300
unit Dismounted Crusader Knights exp 1 cost 1255 replenish 0.04 - 0.08 max 1 initial 0 religions { catholic } end_year 1300
unit Crusader Knights exp 3 cost 676 replenish 0.07 - 0.17 max 2 initial 0 religions { catholic } crusading
unit Crusader Sergeants exp 3 cost 663 replenish 0.07 - 0.17 max 3 initial 0 religions { catholic } crusading
unit Dismounted Crusader Knights exp 3 cost 1255 replenish 0.07 - 0.17 max 2 initial 0 religions { catholic } crusading