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Thread: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

  1. #21
    Mhaedros's Avatar Brave Heart Tegan
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Opposed, even if it's no longer as crucial for TWC as it was years ago (although it still serves an important role as awards-committee etc), there is too much history here to just get rid of. Furthermore, the *idea* of the Curia is just way too cool. Who else has this sort of thing? Why shoot in the neck one of the most unique aspects of TWC when you have no alternative, because all I see here is "this thing doesn't do anything", but no explanation on why getting rid of it would be an improvement.
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  2. #22
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Actually nobody yet has supported this proposal.

  3. #23
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar my horse for a unicode
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    A few have supported in spirit. There might be more substantive discussion if a case were made.

    Then again, a lack of discussion and substance might be perfect symbolism for the point of the proposal.

  4. #24
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    Who else has this sort of thing?
    To my knowledge, no other site has that. Which makes TWC unique and let us keep it as it is.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Possibly. Who knows? But there's still new blood coming to the Curia and this kind of discussion like here, here or even here (even if minor) makes me think that nothing is engraved in stone for sure yet.
    In any case, dissolving the Curia won't change anything nor help. The Curia might be useless or agonizing for some but it can not be blamed for the site issues. In the worst case, let it die "natural".
    Well, well, look who has turned into a hopeless romantic like myself.
    The Curia is the symptom and cause. When the site needed it to give feedback or suggestions, it had become self-absorbed and no one trusted it. By then it had already become a an elitist body putting up a wall to new members. I don't think this will change. I tried making this change and it was to no avail.

  6. #26
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Well, well, look who has turned into a hopeless romantic like myself.
    The Curia is the symptom and cause. When the site needed it to give feedback or suggestions, it had become self-absorbed and no one trusted it. By then it had already become a an elitist body putting up a wall to new members. I don't think this will change. I tried making this change and it was to no avail.
    When you were more active a year ago than you are today, some citizens stayed away from the Curia, but recently something happen which is a welcome change.

    Now, this is my observation, soon after Akar become a citizen the Curia suddenly started to be more interested and at least I find the Curia more healthy (injection of new fresh blood), no offense, in comparison of how it was before in late 2018 and in 2019. Of course back then I was a staff member of both the Modding Staff and Moderation, so my time I spent here was for the staff duties I had.
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  7. #27
    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel Weaves
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Well, well, look who has turned into a hopeless romantic like myself.
    Life is more fun that way.
    Thus, opposed.
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  8. #28
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Unfortunately you can barely even call the Curia an awards committee these days. Here is the grand sum of the Curia's activity over the past 16 months, since January 2019:

    • 11 Awards were given out
    • 2 Constitutional Amendments were passed
    • 1 Decision was passed
    • 12 Amendments/Decisions were abandoned
    • 12 new Citizens were added
    • 1 unsuccessful referral
    • 1 unsuccessful VonC


    Thats absolutely nothing.



  9. #29
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    23 awards in two years seems a lot to me.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    23 awards beats the current activity level of the Tribunal, and I doubt we're humoring an effort to dissolve that on account of activity.

    So on that basis alone, there's still something there.

  11. #31
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    At least it shows that it isn't inactive
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  12. #32
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar my horse for a unicode
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Also, I think it's worth noting that the decline in achievements isn't necessarily the Curia's fault. Those numbers were achieved done despite massive losses in Staff and general membership in recent times. In the bigger picture, it's not as proportionately 'absolutely nothing'. Everything's absolutely gone downhill with it, and the result is something that's sad, but predictable.

  13. #33

    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    When you were more active a year ago than you are today, some citizens stayed away from the Curia, but recently something happen which is a welcome change.

    Now, this is my observation, soon after Akar become a citizen the Curia suddenly started to be more interested and at least I find the Curia more healthy (injection of new fresh blood), no offense, in comparison of how it was before in late 2018 and in 2019. Of course back then I was a staff member of both the Modding Staff and Moderation, so my time I spent here was for the staff duties I had.
    A year ago? Your passage of time is skewed. I haven't posted much here because there isn't much here to post about.

    The way I see it I pushed for the Modding Staff and it failed.
    I pushed for "original intent" of citizenship and it failed too.
    There is literally so much one can do. There is nothing here.

    I have watched this place decline to nothing since 2011 not 2018. I analyzed the crap out of everything. I have read the history. I have participated in everything since being a citizen.
    This place is not more alive. It is like a dying engine that sputters, except the sputtering is less frequent and last a lot shorter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    Unfortunately you can barely even call the Curia an awards committee these days. Here is the grand sum of the Curia's activity over the past 16 months, since January 2019:

    • 11 Awards were given out
    • 2 Constitutional Amendments were passed
    • 1 Decision was passed
    • 12 Amendments/Decisions were abandoned
    • 12 new Citizens were added
    • 1 unsuccessful referral
    • 1 unsuccessful VonC


    Thats absolutely nothing.
    Let me me blunt. the concept that the Curia is an award committee is one of the dumbest concepts I have read. No one wants to join a group to give out awards. Citizens patronize to make it more engaging and more fair and universal, otherwise a small committee would have suited just fine. Large awards was created to recognized continued contribution. The rest of the awards are given out by the members (site awards) or for staff work. Yes, a few Curial stuff as well.

    We are failing... less than one patronage per month. That's just awful.

    We can disappear completely and the site would not miss anything. We all saw to it that this would happen. We choked ourselves to death. We accused ourselves of being elitist and proved it by not patronizing anyone. Why would anyone care for an award that is dying? Why do you care? We can't even make up our minds if we are important or not. I mean in one breath people argue citizenship is not the cause for the decline, but in the same breath you want to keep it. If it has so little bearing on the health of the site, then why keep it.

    Still undecided.
    The only person that seems to care is commodusIV.

  14. #34
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    ^^



    Come on! Why priving some people of fun made by the Curia? If you really think what you wrote, just let it die in its corner.
    What's the problem? Why does it bother you so much guys?

    This is really ridiculous.
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  15. #35
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post

    Let me me blunt. the concept that the Curia is an award committee is one of the dumbest concepts I have read. No one wants to join a group to give out awards. Citizens patronize to make it more engaging and more fair and universal, otherwise a small committee would have suited just fine. Large awards was created to recognized continued contribution. The rest of the awards are given out by the members (site awards) or for staff work. Yes, a few Curial stuff as well.
    What you said sounds like you were just recruiting users for the curia. You did not propose users for citizenship so that they could see their activity rewarded? so that they could see that TWC were grateful for their activity?

    Lifthrasir, some may just want to see the curia's death certificate.
    Last edited by mishkin; April 13, 2020 at 04:09 AM.

  16. #36
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    What you said sounds like you were just recruiting users for the curia. You did not propose users for citizenship so that they could see their activity rewarded? so that they could see that TWC were grateful for their activity?
    To be fair Pike wasn’t the first to do that, it was always an element of citizenship. Sadly the concept of an awards committee doesn’t seem as appealing, despite already being the reality.

  17. #37
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Opposed.
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  18. #38
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    I draw my support for the dissolution of the curia back as with current events its the golden chance for the Curia to set moral and legal standards for modding and become as moral instance relevant again.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
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    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  19. #39

    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    ^^

    Come on! Why priving some people of fun made by the Curia? If you really think what you wrote, just let it die in its corner.
    What's the problem? Why does it bother you so much guys?

    This is really ridiculous.
    If it has no value or is it nor valued as something needed or necessary, then it serves little purpose or reason to exist.
    De jure death or defato death is still a death.

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    What you said sounds like you were just recruiting users for the curia. You did not propose users for citizenship so that they could see their activity rewarded? so that they could see that TWC were grateful for their activity?
    I would say there was not one person I recruited with the idea of participating in the Curia. Every single one was for the contribution, behavior and attitude. If they were active in the Curia then I assume they saw value in helping the site evolve for the needs of its current members. They will attest that I have asked for them to patronize, though the last grouping not so much as I have become disillusioned despite outwardly showing optimism. I currently would like to patronized about half dozen members. However, I do not see a lot of people valuing it.

    Citizenship, despite elitism that has developed, is something of far less value than at its introduction. Let that sink in.

  20. #40
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: [Decision] Dissolve the Curia

    Support in principle.

    I think the site could benefit if the Curia was dissolved and started afresh, minus unnecessary elements like the Constitution and Amendments.

    All Citizenship is stripped. Hex appoints a strictly limited (say, 5) Citizens, because you need to start somewhere with having people to vote on Citizenship, Awards, and candidates for Magistrate. These Citizens may then patronise, or members - any member - can apply for Citizenship without a patron. Citizenship is an award for contribution, either in modding, debating, or general TWC contributions & activity. Each Citizen has the right to determine for themselves which applications are worthy of receiving Citizenship (as is already the case).

    A Second Republic.

    No referrals (I thought about it and agree with you, mishkin); no "higher standards". Citizenship is suspended or removed if a member receives certain moderation infractions, as per the ToS. A fellow Citizen does something wrong or rude? Use the Report button.

    No proposals (Decisions) for site. We have Questions & Suggestions to appeal for things which may or may not be possible anyway with absentee back-end staff, and all other jazz. Decisions are not binding anyway and carry no extra weight, regardless of what we want to believe.

    No Constitution. A short, concise bill ("Articles of Citizenship" or whatever) outlines that the Curia is a sub-forum for peer-reviewed awards, including Citizenship itself, and that holders of Citizenship may vote on awards for others, and run for election for Magistrate (once they've met any attached requirements).

    No Consul, Curator, Censors, Praefects or any other bloat. The Curia forum/sub-forums are moderated by Hex and/or Moderation like anywhere else.

    Citizenship applications, awards proposals, and magistrate elections can all take place side-by-side in the CVRIA main forum without the need for sub-forums. A single forum for archiving, with stickies containing records of Citizenship, awards, and elections for magistrate maintained by Hex and/or Moderation. The Symposium remains as a sub-forum for discussing site history, archiving everything else in sub-forums like it already does, including all the current stuff, and for anything other than applications, proposals and elections.

    Hell if you wanted to have some fun with it, the first 5 Citizens can compete to see who gets the biggest house. Just for fun. Could even have different coloured Citizenship badges, with "House of Veteraan" or whoever underneath. (Yes, I know, I know, "backend limitations", "extra member groups"; humour me).

    The CVRIA forum and sub-forums are open for posting by all members. Only Citizens may vote.

    Why?

    This is essentially what we already have, minus the bloat.

    Why start again?

    Because it gives us something to do. EDIT: It would be a fresh start, freeing us of the baggage of 17~ years (or however long it is), and allowing the new Citizens to put their own stamp on what the value the "award/reward of Citizenship" is. Citizenship becomes more tangible.

    I'll happily draw up something more formal if this isn't shouted down or ignored.
    Last edited by Frunk; April 14, 2020 at 04:57 AM.

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