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Thread: War drums; beating softly for now

  1. #21

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    I remember when everyone famous but Trump was part of the child-raping, child-eating, black magic cult that runs the world from behind the scenes yet can't be bothered to take out the keyboard warriors who seemingly know every last detail of their nefarious plots and only Trump could save us from them. When did they all exchange their pentagrams and goat masks for red books and pictures of Mao?

  2. #22
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Taiwan was a brutal dictatorship for most of its existence, a brutal minority forcing itself on an unwilling majority. It wouldn't really bother me if one dictatorship knocked off another, and the United States in the end wouldn't risk WW3 over Taiwan.

  3. #23

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    Taiwan was a brutal dictatorship for most of its existence, a brutal minority forcing itself on an unwilling majority. It wouldn't really bother me if one dictatorship knocked off another, and the United States in the end wouldn't risk WW3 over Taiwan.
    I guess then it would be okay for Russia to re-claim its provinces to the West then.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    if Russia is willing to start a war for a desert good on them

  5. #25
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    To be clear the above is an explicitly pro-CCP viewpoint. Asserting the right of the CCP to dominate or even occupy its neighbors, be they independent nations or Chinese governments in exile, has nothing to do with truth or justice. Thus referencing “freedom” in the context of curtailing authoritarian expansion is not only appropriate but inevitable.
    Cool rant, maybe have an aspirin and some facts. Under international law Taiwan is a Chinese province, and most states do not recognise Taiwan diplomatically.

    I may not like the Chinese government by my personal opinions do not change facts. Neither do yours.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  6. #26

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Cool rant, maybe have an aspirin and some facts. Under international law Taiwan is a Chinese province, and most states do not recognise Taiwan diplomatically.

    I may not like the Chinese government by my personal opinions do not change facts. Neither do yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Taiwan is a rebel province of China, maintaining its separate existence solely by force of US arms as leverage for use in other arenas.

    In terms of truth and justice it is a Chinese province for the brutal oligarchs of Beijing to do with as they will. The US fleets in the region keep the Chinese at bay in what amounts to a perpetual wedgie.
    Again, the above is an explicitly pro-CCP viewpoint:
    Quote Originally Posted by CCP
    There is only one China in the world, and Taiwan is part of China. The Government of the People's Republic of China is the sole legal government of China. This is the fact recognized by the United Nations and over 160 countries, including the United States of America which established diplomatic relations with China 20 years ago.

    Yu Shuning Spokesman of the Chinese Embassy in the United States of America

    http://lt.china-embassy.org/eng/zt/zgtw/t125169.htm
    No rant necessary. The ROC does not claim to be the independent nation of Taiwan, but rather the rightful government of China. International law does not establish the ROC as a province belonging to the CCP government in Beijing. On the contrary:
    Quote Originally Posted by The International Legal Status of the Republic of China
    According to international law, “the existence in fact of a new state or a new government is not dependent on its recognition by other states.” (Hackworth, Digest of International Law, Vol. 1 (1940), p. 161.

    Professor Gerhard von Glahn explains the ROC’s status as follows:
    From a factual point of view, the Republic of China continues, of course, to exist as an independent entity, even though it was recognized by only twenty-two members of the family of nations.

    Dr. J. Crawford made an extensive study of Taiwan’s status and concluded:
    The conclusion must be that Taiwan is not a State, be cause it does not claim to be, and is not recognized as such: its status is that of a consolidated local de facto government in a civil war situation. Internationally the Government of Formosa is a well established de facto government, capable of committing the State to at least certain classes of transaction. It has also been argued that the principle of self-determination applies, so that Taiwan may not be transferred to the control of the People’s Republic without the consent of the people.

    https://digitalcommons.law.umaryland...as&sei-redir=1
    Accordingly:
    Quote Originally Posted by USA
    The United States does not support Taiwan independence. Maintaining strong, unofficial relations with Taiwan is a major U.S. goal, in line with the U.S. desire to further peace and stability in Asia. The 1979 Taiwan Relations Act provides the legal basis for the unofficial relationship between the United States and Taiwan, and enshrines the U.S. commitment to assist Taiwan in maintaining its defensive capability. The United States insists on the peaceful resolution of cross-Strait differences, opposes unilateral changes to the status quo by either side, and encourages both sides to continue their constructive dialogue on the basis of dignity and respect.

    https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  7. #27
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    The US does not recognise Taiwan as the rightful government of China, so there's no "accordingly", that's just ranting.

    Just because someone you don't like states a fact doesn't invalidate the fact.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  8. #28

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The US does not recognise Taiwan as the rightful government of China, so there's no "accordingly", that's just ranting.

    Just because someone you don't like states a fact doesn't invalidate the fact.
    The above is a non-response to facts which directly contradict the pro-CCP viewpoint you’ve expressed as your personal opinion that “In terms of truth and justice Taiwan is a Chinese province for the brutal oligarchs of Beijing to do with as they will.” As I said, your opinion has nothing to do with truth or justice. Contrary to your claim, your opinion is not consistent with international law. As cited, the US position on Taiwan is, however, contrary to your inference.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; April 17, 2020 at 08:58 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  9. #29
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The US does not recognise Taiwan as the rightful government of China, so there's no "accordingly", that's just ranting.

    Just because someone you don't like states a fact doesn't invalidate the fact.
    The US recognized the government on Taiwan as the legitimate government of China for 30 years. President Jimmy Carter (Democrat) ended that diplomatic recognition in 1979 and formally recognized the CCP as the legitimate government of China.

    Who would have thought that a Democrat would pander to communists?...oh wait.

    https://history.state.gov/milestones...0/china-policy

  10. #30
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    The above is a non-response to facts which directly contradict the pro-CCP viewpoint you’ve expressed as your personal opinion that “In terms of truth and justice Taiwan is a Chinese province for the brutal oligarchs of Beijing to do with as they will.” As I said, your opinion has nothing to do with truth or justice. Contrary to your claim, your opinion is not consistent with international law. As cited, the US position on Taiwan is, however, contrary to your inference.
    Welcome to this dimension traveller, where Superman does not exist and realpolitik trumps fantasy notions of international relations. I recommend basic reading of this dimension's history before further discussion takes place.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  11. #31
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Who would have thought that a Democrat would pander to communists?...oh wait.
    I mean Nixon opened the door, Carter just walked through it. Not that Republicans or Democrats are different on foreign policy.

  12. #32

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    I mean Nixon opened the door, Carter just walked through it. Not that Republicans or Democrats are different on foreign policy.
    I wouldn't really compare Nixon approaching USSR to prevent literal apocalypse to Carter being buddies with Jim Jones.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    USSR? I'm talking about China. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nsa/publi...inger/nixzhou/

    Even with the excisions, these documents go well beyond the accounts of the talks that Nixon and his national security assistant Henry Kissinger provided in their memoirs.2 The memoirs summarized major points of discussion, such as the Vietnam war and Nixon's articulate defense of the U.S.'s military presence in the Pacific, but they never hinted at the discussions of India-Pakistan issues and their accounts of the talks on the Soviet Union were cursory. Significantly, they only hinted at the pledges on Taiwan that Nixon made to Zhou, e.g., not to support Taiwanese independence, to "discourage Japan from moving into Taiwan" as the United States reduced its presence there, and not to support "any military attempts by the Government of Taiwan to resort to a military return to the Mainland."

    god damn republican presidents befriending marxists like Mao and above all...Ellen Degeneres
    Last edited by RedGuard; April 18, 2020 at 04:38 PM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    China had nukes by then and it was also part of Nixon's "holy we ed up lets' get the out of Vietnam as soon as we can, LBJ and his not losing face crap, look where it got us" policy. He didn't have (future) commie mass murderers like Jim Jones as his pals nor he appeased China.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; April 19, 2020 at 11:33 AM.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    you sound triggered. Did I hurt your image of Nixon?

  16. #36

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    you sound triggered. Did I hurt your image of Nixon?
    Why would I be triggered? I don't really have a positive or negative opinion of Nixon, although I do think he wasn't as bad as the next neoconservative crop of Republicans and neoliberal crop of Democrats.
    My point is that Nixon didn't appease China, he mainly attempted to de-escalate Cold War and end the geopolitical nightmare in Vietnam.

  17. #37

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Didn't Nixon try to sabotage peace talks in Vietnam to bolster his own electoral ambitions?



  18. #38
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Didn't Nixon try to sabotage peace talks in Vietnam to bolster his own electoral ambitions?
    yes, and we have him on tape doing it

    neoconservative crop of Republicans and neoliberal crop of Democrats
    I agree, but that was because he had to keep the working class from sabotaging the business interests of America. When the USSR declined rapidly in the late 70s and China became neutral in the cold war, (thanks to Nixon) that became much less of a threat
    Last edited by RedGuard; April 19, 2020 at 01:44 PM.

  19. #39

    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Didn't Nixon try to sabotage peace talks in Vietnam to bolster his own electoral ambitions?
    That doesn't really change the fact that he did not, in fact, attempt to appease China.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: War drums; beating softly for now

    appease
    if you don;t define what you mean by this word theres really no point in continuing the conversation

    if I give you evidence that he did in fact appease china, you will just say thats not appeasement

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