Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 262

Thread: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

  1. #41
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,280

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    PointOfViewGun,

    Quote,

    Muslims believe that Jesus (called “Isa” in Arabic) was a prophet of God and was born to a virgin (Mary). They also believe he will return to Earth before the Day of Judgment to restore justice and defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal, or “the false messiah” — also known as the Antichrist. All of this may sound pretty familiar to many Christians. (The fact that Muslims know that “al-Masih ad-Dajjal” is the Arabic name for the Antichrist created some...uh...unexpected problems for Netflix recently — warning: spoilers.) Unquote.

    Why Jesus if He is not God? Only God can restore anything and so as it is Jesus Who is to restore justice He must be God. Did He not say to detractors that, " Before Moses was, I AM." Is that not the name God told Moses to tell the people? " Tell them I AM."

  2. #42

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    PointOfViewGun,

    Quote,

    Muslims believe that Jesus (called “Isa” in Arabic) was a prophet of God and was born to a virgin (Mary). They also believe he will return to Earth before the Day of Judgment to restore justice and defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal, or “the false messiah” — also known as the Antichrist. All of this may sound pretty familiar to many Christians. (The fact that Muslims know that “al-Masih ad-Dajjal” is the Arabic name for the Antichrist created some...uh...unexpected problems for Netflix recently — warning: spoilers.) Unquote.

    Why Jesus if He is not God? Only God can restore anything and so as it is Jesus Who is to restore justice He must be God. Did He not say to detractors that, " Before Moses was, I AM." Is that not the name God told Moses to tell the people? " Tell them I AM."
    I asked where in the Quran does it say that Jesus will be the judge. You are quoting from a Vox article without providing any reference. Is your position so damn weak?

    Anyways, you think god is interested in a pissing contest? Why couldn't he choose Jesus to judge people even if Jesus was not god? Not that you could show us a Quranic reference saying that of course.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; April 18, 2020 at 05:46 AM.
    The Armenian Issue

  3. #43
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,280

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I asked where in the Quran does it say that Jesus will be the judge. You are quoting from a Vox article without providing any reference. Is your position so damn weak?

    Anyways, you think god is interested in a pissing contest? Why couldn't he choose Jesus to judge people even if Jesus was not god? Not that you could show us a Quranic reference saying that of course.
    PointOfViewGun,

    I have made this point many times over the years on these threads and yet not one Muslim has ever denied it, why? Then why hasn't the Father ordained Mohammed to be the Judge of all things? The answer is simple. Mohammed is not God whereas Jesus Christ is.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    PointOfViewGun,

    I have made this point many times over the years on these threads and yet not one Muslim has ever denied it, why? Then why hasn't the Father ordained Mohammed to be the Judge of all things? The answer is simple. Mohammed is not God whereas Jesus Christ is.
    So, for years you made a claim without actually checking the source that could support it? Interesting... I'm fairly certain god doesn't play pissing contest between its prophets. Why can't Jesus judge as a prophet based on god's law if he was given that task though?
    The Armenian Issue

  5. #45

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, for years you made a claim without actually checking the source that could support it? Interesting... I'm fairly certain god doesn't play pissing contest between its prophets. Why can't Jesus judge as a prophet based on god's law if he was given that task though?
    Both the Koran and the Old Testament both testify that it is God (Allah) who is the judge: Psalms 50:4, 98:9, Isaiah 2:4 says that God is the judge, as do Surah 6:114 and 18:26. But Jesus and the New Testament clearly says he will judge: John 5:22 says that the Father judges no one but has given all judgement to the Son (Jesus). Act 10:38-42 says that Jesus was rased from the dead ans was appointed Judge of both the living and the dead. (Note, both the Old Testament and Koran says God is the judge the judge, and the New Testament affiems the authority of he Old Testament and says Jesus will judge the world, the New Testament is in effect God. John 1: 1, 14-16 explicitedly is stating Jesus was God also.)


    Since most Chrisians don't regard Muhammad as a true peophet of God, there is no "pissing contest" between prophets. Bu sometmes men of God, being fallible human beings, can make mistakes and disagree with one another. Paul criticzed Peter's actions in Galatians. Paul disagreement with his long time colleague Barnabas over whether to bring Barnabas cousin Mark along with their mission trip, leading to their split. Paul later acknowledged the usefulness of Mark. The prophet Jonah initially tried to run away rather than obey God's commandment. Being a prophet does not make one perfect.


    PS - The Koran says that none can change the word Allah Surah 6:115. And Surah 5:46-47 commands Christians to follow their scriptures, which Allah would never had done had the Gospels been corrupted at the time of Muhammad, and we have copies of the Gospels from Muhammad's time which show that them to be the same as today's Gospels, which teach that Jesus will judge. So indirectly the Koran does say Jesus is Judge.

    Note, the 4 cannonical gospels we have were from the earliest Christian and times regarded as the only authenic gospels, and while other books were written, they were rejected as inauthentic. The 2nd century writer Iraneus argued there can be only 4 Gospels, and his quotes make it clear that it is the 4 Gospels we now are the gosels he is referring to. Even the rejected gospels still agree with claims made by the cannonical gospels, which disagree with what Muslims believe.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; April 22, 2020 at 10:46 AM.

  6. #46
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,280

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, for years you made a claim without actually checking the source that could support it? Interesting... I'm fairly certain god doesn't play pissing contest between its prophets. Why can't Jesus judge as a prophet based on god's law if he was given that task though?
    PointOfViewGun,

    Over my life all my knowledge has come from studying or reading what others have said and done. When I became a Christian all that energy was put into reading or listening to men who had studied Islam alongside my Biblical studies. Now if that makes me something odd compared to any other person. Islam is a false religion built on the baser instincts of men to make its appeal stronger. The silliest of all is the 72 virgin thing which men will get allegedly on entering paradise. How long will 72 virgins be virgins? 72 days at best and much less if men behave as normal. So, let's assume that a billion Muslims get their virgins that means 72 billion virgins floating around this paradise and of course we know that figure will be higher if it were true.

    Since Jesus is not only a prophet of God being the Son of God, He is God. Since neither a real prophet of God can lie any more than God can lie and His words and actions go all the way back to creation where does that leave Mohammed who is one also to be judged when Jesus Christ comes back to restore judgement and justice? I don't need to read the Koran to know what is going to happen since Jesus' words began with Genesis and end with the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Islam only came on the scene some six hundred years after the death of Jesus Christ yet the Bible covers six thousand odd years of people being saved since the fall of Adam and Eve by His blood, the only blood capable of satisfying God. No man, Muslim or else can enter heaven without the shedding of blood which only Jesus Christ could provide.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    PointOfViewGun,

    Over my life all my knowledge has come from studying or reading what others have said and done. When I became a Christian all that energy was put into reading or listening to men who had studied Islam alongside my Biblical studies. Now if that makes me something odd compared to any other person. Islam is a false religion built on the baser instincts of men to make its appeal stronger. The silliest of all is the 72 virgin thing which men will get allegedly on entering paradise. How long will 72 virgins be virgins? 72 days at best and much less if men behave as normal. So, let's assume that a billion Muslims get their virgins that means 72 billion virgins floating around this paradise and of course we know that figure will be higher if it were true.

    Since Jesus is not only a prophet of God being the Son of God, He is God. Since neither a real prophet of God can lie any more than God can lie and His words and actions go all the way back to creation where does that leave Mohammed who is one also to be judged when Jesus Christ comes back to restore judgement and justice? I don't need to read the Koran to know what is going to happen since Jesus' words began with Genesis and end with the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Islam only came on the scene some six hundred years after the death of Jesus Christ yet the Bible covers six thousand odd years of people being saved since the fall of Adam and Eve by His blood, the only blood capable of satisfying God. No man, Muslim or else can enter heaven without the shedding of blood which only Jesus Christ could provide.
    72 virgins do not exist in the Quran. Could mentioning of that be a deflection from your inability to actually cite Quran about claims you make? New dubious claims won't help that. You do need to read the Quran if you're gonna make claims about it. You continue to judge what Islam says about Jesus based on what the Bible says about Jesus. Such an argument has no logical basis.

    God being only satisfied by God's (aka Jesus) blood. You're basically advocating religious . That's an other major difference between Islam and Christianity. Christianity is built on collective guilt, Islam is not.
    The Armenian Issue

  8. #48

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    72 virgins do not exist in the Quran. Could mentioning of that be a deflection from your inability to actually cite Quran about claims you make? New dubious claims won't help that. You do need to read the Quran if you're gonna make claims about it. You continue to judge what Islam says about Jesus based on what the Bible says about Jesus. Such an argument has no logical basis.

    God being only satisfied by God's (aka Jesus) blood. You're basically advocating religious . That's an other major difference between Islam and Christianity. Christianity is built on collective guilt, Islam is not.
    Well I have read rhe Koran, and it does mention the Muslims will be rewarded with virgins surah 56:35-38, although the exact number is not given. However, the 72 virgins are stated in the hadiths, like Sunan al-Tirmidhi Vol 4, Ch 21 No., and al-Tirmidhi's hadiths were not judged to be weak. The hadiths are essenrial for understanding the Koran, since much of Koran would be incomprehensible without the hadiths. Most Muslims accept the authority of the hadiths and a number of Muslim.scholars report the number of 72. So Mualims do believe that Koran says virgins are given, and the number 72 comes from reliable hadiths.

    Note, while the scholar Christopher Luxenberg has suggest the Koran has been mistranslated and misunderstood, the orginal word being Aramaic hur "raisin" instead of Arabic houri "virgin", the Koran dscribes the physical appearance of these virgins making it clear that raisins were not being talked about, such as surah 78:33, where it talks about "swelling breast".

    As for collective guilt, Muslims de facto acknowledges its reality. The floodig of the world under Noah, killing young children as well as the adults, would have been a very unjust act without the concept of collective guilt, and Muslims believe Allah is just. Muslims also act on the principle of xollective guilt whwn they deliberately target innocent children as they do.

    Another difference between Islam Nd Christianity is that Islam is commited to no questions asked obedience. Islam means "submission", and throughout the Koran demanda mindless obedience. A clear contrast in this in the demonstration of Sodom and Gomorrah (unnamed) in the Koran with account in Gensis. When angels announce the "good news" of the destuction of these cities insurah 29:31 and others, Abraham raises no objection, and in favor of destroying children, women, and men. In complete contrast, in Genesis 18, Abraham, in an unprecedented example of ancient religion challenges God himseld to live up to his own moral standard. Unlike the Koran, in the Bible Abraham's first response upon hearing of God's planned destruction is to ask God "surely you will not destroy the just with the wicked?" Genesis 18:23. Allah of the Koran demands unquestioning obedience; Muslims and believers are just servants to Allah.and masters.don't explain to sdrvants.


    In contrast, while God does want our obedience, it is ok to question him - even Jesus asked God if was possible to avoid his immending death in Luke 22:42, but concludes "not his will but God's be done". And in John 15:14-15, Jesus calls his disciples "friends" not servants, and explains the difference: servants do no know what their master is doing but friends do. We do what our friend ask, not out of mindless obedience but because we care about out friend, and trust them even if we don't always know or understand the reason at the time. The unestioning obedience of Ialam.lends itself to.the actions of mindless terrorist who kill innocent children and adults because the Koran and their imans told them to.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; April 20, 2020 at 11:29 AM.

  9. #49
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,280

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    PointOfViewGun,

    Collective guilt comes from the curse of sin put on Adam and Eve passing to all and any offspring from then on. To be born again of the Spirit of God is an individual act between God and the recipient. How is that collective? Each person is responsible for their own sin before God.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    PointOfViewGun,

    Collective guilt comes from the curse of sin put on Adam and Eve passing to all and any offspring from then on. To be born again of the Spirit of God is an individual act between God and the recipient. How is that collective? Each person is responsible for their own sin before God.
    It's collective since you as a person living in the 21st century have no responsibility of those two eating apples. It's not your act.
    The Armenian Issue

  11. #51

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It's collective since you as a person living in the 21st century have no responsibility of those two eating apples. It's not your act.
    And I showed before and you have not refuted, Islam also de facto assumes collective guilt. Even thouvh we in the 21st century did not eat the fruit, yet we like Adam and Eve are still barred from the Garden and forced to live on thd less perfect earth in the Koran. If collective guilt did not exist, then we and Adam and Eve' children should have been allowed to live in the Garden unless we too ate the forbidden fruit ourselves but that is not the case. Wd are all barred from the Garden.

  12. #52
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,280

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It's collective since you as a person living in the 21st century have no responsibility of those two eating apples. It's not your act.
    PointOfViewGun,

    Although they ate of the fruit, the very first point is that they disobeyed God by disbelieving Him. As soon as they ate they knew what sin was because they brought it about so they tried to hide from God as if that is possible. Coming right up to today I know as you do when you sin but in my case Jesus Christ paid for mine, not so with you. As for collective guilt that is quite true but the guilt is still individually borne. That said, when a Muslim attaches explosives to himself and preceeds to blow up a crowd of people who could be Christian, Jew and others including Muslims is that not collective? Is that not what they are taught to do by their crazy Imams?

  13. #53

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    PointOfViewGun,

    Although they ate of the fruit, the very first point is that they disobeyed God by disbelieving Him. As soon as they ate they knew what sin was because they brought it about so they tried to hide from God as if that is possible. Coming right up to today I know as you do when you sin but in my case Jesus Christ paid for mine, not so with you. As for collective guilt that is quite true but the guilt is still individually borne. That said, when a Muslim attaches explosives to himself and preceeds to blow up a crowd of people who could be Christian, Jew and others including Muslims is that not collective? Is that not what they are taught to do by their crazy Imams?
    Jesus, who you claim to be god, paying for your sins makes absolutely no sense. It's illogical. That said, you seem to be acknowledging that Christianity does indeed support collective guilt. Saying that an idiot blowing himself up because of what an other idiot person says somehow means that Islam supports collective guilt is like saying that Christianity supports pedophilia. Islam certainly doesn't tell anyone to blow up random people. The fact that you're trying to shift focus to there shows me that you're not exactly happy with Christianity embracing collective guilt either. How do you make peace with that idea?
    The Armenian Issue

  14. #54

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Jesus, who you claim to be god, paying for your sins makes absolutely no sense. It's illogical. That said, you seem to be acknowledging that Christianity does indeed support collective guilt. Saying that an idiot blowing himself up because of what an other idiot person says somehow means that Islam supports collective guilt is like saying that Christianity supports pedophilia. Islam certainly doesn't tell anyone to blow up random people. The fact that you're trying to shift focus to there shows me that you're not exactly happy with Christianity embracing collective guilt either. How do you make peace with that idea?
    Allah in Islam is even less logical and makes even less sense. Allah of the Koran as I have said supports thr idea of.collective guilt, as thr Flood, and the expellig of all humanity from.the Garden shows. It is you are the one who are shifting focus the focus by concentrating on the topic of collective guilt instead of dealing with the.topic of the thread.

    There is no evidence of peodophiles being motivated by their religiouz beliefz, but there are numerous examples of Muslims blowing innocent children, women, and men up directly because of their Islamic beliefs. The only way they could jusify their actions is by collective guilt. Their view of Islam might not be the same as yours or the majority of Muslims, but it is held by lot more than just a handful of individuals you seem to imply, and it has precedence in the examples of Muhammad. Muhammad didn't blow up people, because there were no explosives in his time, but he killed plenty of people with the sword, many of thrm who were not actively fighting him or threatening him.

  15. #55
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,280

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Jesus, who you claim to be god, paying for your sins makes absolutely no sense. It's illogical. That said, you seem to be acknowledging that Christianity does indeed support collective guilt. Saying that an idiot blowing himself up because of what an other idiot person says somehow means that Islam supports collective guilt is like saying that Christianity supports pedophilia. Islam certainly doesn't tell anyone to blow up random people. The fact that you're trying to shift focus to there shows me that you're not exactly happy with Christianity embracing collective guilt either. How do you make peace with that idea?
    PointOfViewGun,

    OK, before a law can be rescinded or changed the Testator must die which Jesus Christ did so that the Law couldn't condemn those that He died for ever again. In other words He established a new Law which we call the New Testament. Under the Old law no-one could be saved from sin except for all them that God accounted righteous because they believed that the " seed " Jesus Christ would come at some point to save them with His blood. The price of sin being shed blood and His being the only pure blood it makes all the sense in the world. His whole ministry was and still is about restoring sinful people back to God and He is the only way to achieve that. Mohammed never offered anything like that because he couldn't being a sinner himself. All the blood that he has had shed means absolutely nothing to God because people can only be saved from their sin before they die not after in the hope that by works they had done enough to appease God. Concerning collective guilt for sure there is not a Christian who doesn't remember from what he or she was delivered from, why? Because each one can say they didn't deserve to be saved and often wonder, " Why me Lord?" But for the grace of God none would be saved.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    PointOfViewGun,

    OK, before a law can be rescinded or changed the Testator must die which Jesus Christ did so that the Law couldn't condemn those that He died for ever again. In other words He established a new Law which we call the New Testament. Under the Old law no-one could be saved from sin except for all them that God accounted righteous because they believed that the " seed " Jesus Christ would come at some point to save them with His blood. The price of sin being shed blood and His being the only pure blood it makes all the sense in the world. His whole ministry was and still is about restoring sinful people back to God and He is the only way to achieve that. Mohammed never offered anything like that because he couldn't being a sinner himself. All the blood that he has had shed means absolutely nothing to God because people can only be saved from their sin before they die not after in the hope that by works they had done enough to appease God. Concerning collective guilt for sure there is not a Christian who doesn't remember from what he or she was delivered from, why? Because each one can say they didn't deserve to be saved and often wonder, " Why me Lord?" But for the grace of God none would be saved.
    There is not an ounce of sense in what you're saying. Jesus being the same as god invalidates his sacrifice. There was only sacrifice in name. There is no sense in saying that the "Testator" must die for the law to be changed. God could simply reveal that he changed the law and that from that point on people had to follow the new law. Meanwhile, we have Jesus himself expressing the fact that he did not came to abolish the law but to fulfill which he too declared that he'd live by the law. There is no sense in collective guilt either. You have no responsibility over what your ancestors have done. That is an universal truth.
    The Armenian Issue

  17. #57

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    There is not an ounce of sense in what you're saying. Jesus being the same as god invalidates his sacrifice. There was only sacrifice in name. There is no sense in saying that the "Testator" must die for the law to be changed. God could simply reveal that he changed the law and that from that point on people had to follow the new law.
    That logic only applies to.thr Muslim concept of God, who is abritary and does whatever he feels like. That concept is.why some have speculated the Muslim wodld never developed modern science. It was said Allah is too arbitrary to develop the idea of an orderly universe governed by regular rules.

    Thd Chrisrian concept is different. While God can do anything he wants, he and his universe are governed by self imposed rules. The Christian god is not, like Allah, going to arbitrarily violate his own rules willy nilly. Allah of the Koran says one thing, then later Allah changes what he says and abrogate what he said earlier. God of ths Bible operates a little differently, and might feel compelled to concile conflicting claims, instead of just dismissing earlier degrees by just saying "I have changed my mind" as Allah does.


    Koran says in Surah 2:106 that Allah canreplace previous revelation with a new and better one. That indicates a rather arbitrariness to Allah, since thr Koran was given over only a 20 year period, and why couldn't the All Knowing Allah reveal the better revelation in the first place and avoid the wasted time and confusio with the inferior revelation?

    Meanwhile, we have Jesus himself expressing the fact that he did not came to abolish the law but to fulfill which he too declared that he'd live by the law. There is no sense in collective guilt either.
    I don't see the logic by which you reach that conclusion. How does not abolishing the law tie into collective guilt, which as I have show Islam de facto acknowledges?

    And by "the law", you have to be careful what Jesus meanr by it. There is always "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law". The Spirit of the Law is the intent which the law was written, and might not reflect the actual words written. The Gospels clearly show Jesus meant the spirit of the law.

    To give an example of the spirit of the law in practice, no where in the US Constitution is the right ofnsame sex marriages guaranteed in specific words. But the Supreme Court has interpretated that same sex marriages are guaranteed by thr spirit of the Constitution, if not by specific language. The whole of the Constitution has been against arbitrary discrimination against sex, against race, against religion, so the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same sex marriage was consistent with that Spirit

    You have no responsibility over what your ancestors have done. That is an universal truth.
    But we face the consequences of what our ancestors havs done, that is the reality of the world even Muslims acknowledge. We are all driven out of Garden, even though we had nothing to do with eating the forbidden fruit. We all suffer from the loss of paradisd, even though we had nothing to do with Adam and Eve's disobedience.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; April 23, 2020 at 07:34 PM.

  18. #58
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,280

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    PointOfViewGun,

    Well, since Jesus Christ created all things that were ever made at creation, it follows that He must be God. He instituted the Old Covenant yet by His death on the cross it was made possible for Him then to institute a New Covenant which He did. We know that the Father cannot die but His Son as a man could and did die. The wonderful thing is that as God He could raise Himself from the dead which He did not only showing himself to many by eating and drinking with them but in His three days in the grave He went down into the pit to show Himself to all the unbelievers that were dead and gone, why? To let them see that He had the power over life and death so that there was no mistake as to Whom He was and is and why they should have obeyed rather than disobey by disbelief what had been written of Him. He was the promised " seed " foretold by God in the garden and foretold of by all the prophets who were from God. Mohammed was certainly not one of those prophets.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    PointOfViewGun,

    Well, since Jesus Christ created all things that were ever made at creation, it follows that He must be God. He instituted the Old Covenant yet by His death on the cross it was made possible for Him then to institute a New Covenant which He did. We know that the Father cannot die but His Son as a man could and did die. The wonderful thing is that as God He could raise Himself from the dead which He did not only showing himself to many by eating and drinking with them but in His three days in the grave He went down into the pit to show Himself to all the unbelievers that were dead and gone, why? To let them see that He had the power over life and death so that there was no mistake as to Whom He was and is and why they should have obeyed rather than disobey by disbelief what had been written of Him. He was the promised " seed " foretold by God in the garden and foretold of by all the prophets who were from God. Mohammed was certainly not one of those prophets.
    No god requires a show on the cross to get the power to change a law. He could simply deem it to be so and it would be done. Jesus being god, with the ability to raise himself from the dead, makes his sacrifice merely a show. That's not a sacrifice. I understand you try to preach in order to turn a blind eye to how senseless what you're trying to claim here. However, your position is as weak as it gets.
    The Armenian Issue

  20. #60
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,280

    Default Re: Is Islam really the sams religion as Judaism ans Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    No god requires a show on the cross to get the power to change a law. He could simply deem it to be so and it would be done. Jesus being god, with the ability to raise himself from the dead, makes his sacrifice merely a show. That's not a sacrifice. I understand you try to preach in order to turn a blind eye to how senseless what you're trying to claim here. However, your position is as weak as it gets.
    PointOfViewGun,

    God pronounced all mankind as being under the rule of Satan and sin. In doing so He made it impossible for anyone to enter heaven unless the Law was upheld, unless blood was shed for sin. The only Persons outside of the Law was God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that is why Jesus Christ came into the world as a man, but a sinless man. If a person dies in their sin they cannot enter heaven even by shedding their own blood. The Law requires a person be free of sin before he or she can enter heaven and only the blood of Jesus Christ was sinless meaning that the Law could only be satisfied inside mankind by God the Son becoming a man. So, was the cross just a show? Much more than that I say because He became on it the substitute for every sinner He would save from sin. He paid the price the Law demanded for sin by becoming them in their sin on that cross. The Muslim relies on God having mercy on his dead but once dead there can be no mercy, why? Because no-one dying a sinner can enter heaven whether Muslim or anyone else. Only by the blood of Jesus Christ is anyone made safe from the Law. In fact the Law was made to point man to Jesus Christ. He by His death and resurrection was therefore able to bring in a New Covenant thus making salvation from sin not just a possiblity but a reality.

    Now if all this is senseless how does a Muslim get into heaven. He is under the Law like anyone else. He has no Saviour because he is told that Jesus never died on a cross, is not God and so by lying, cheathing, raping, killing or stealing these are his good works? On that basis God will have mercy on him? Now that's senseless don't you think?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •