View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
78. You may not vote on this poll
  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    34 43.59%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    37 47.44%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    4 5.13%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    3 3.85%
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Thread: USA elections 2020 - 2021

  1. #1801
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I love your catch-22s.

    The dirty secret to all this is transitions actually take a good while to do. Researching new technology. Then making new technology cheap enough to be viable. Then replacing current technology with new technology.

    You know what American companies are investing a lot in solar because they know, whether they like it or not, we're moving away from fossil fuels? Oil companies.
    Considering that this is my field of studies, I am aware. And they do that for the past 20 years. For the past 20 years.

    15 years ago, I was doing research for coal mining in Greece and they were calling it a dying industry. It was next to impossible to get funding from the EU even in midst 2000s.
    Wind power? Solar? That's what we look into now.

    A short time ago, we submitted a paper for review to showcase a method of estimation that can handle large datasets more easily. To showcase, we used Campbell County, Wyoming, which has the two largest coal mines in the world and shale gas.
    Two of the four reviewers told us to supplement that paper with different datasets, either synthetic or something else. I can't pass you the paper because it's not submitted yet (and it has my real name) but please trust me that the "gist" of the paper is not the coal, but an estimation method that can handle coal, Cu, gold, environmental parameters, whatever. It was just that the huge open dataset was from coal.
    This is not the first time that coal raises flags in peer reviewed papers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Of course, we're not yet at that last stage of replacing their technology so, their workers in numbers don't really know that.
    We are totally at the stage of replacing fossil fuels in the Western world! What are you talking about?
    Obama did a huge effort there. It is the one lasting part of his presidency I would think. And it is opposed by the conservatives.
    Did you forget Trump's promises to bring back coal and the old Republican oil-lobby Mantra of Drill-baby-Drill? Or... what Biden said in the debate?

    Just check what percentage the renewables and alternative sources have gained during the Obama years.
    Yes, the graph doesn't show the Obama years, but you can see USA have hit 11 quadrillion BTU from renewables and that was not Bush2 nor Trump efforts.
    During Obama, renewables jumped from 6.5Q BTU to 11Q BTU while energy consumption remained largely the same.

    As for the workers not knowing that: Again, they vote Trump for this reason. Biden even told them in the Debate yesterday. They are fully aware they're working on trains in the era of automobile.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    The American fossil fuel companies not smart enough to make that transition? Fine with me, they can go out of business while their workers send their resumes to the ones smart enough to have made that transition.
    American fossil fuel companies ARE smart enough to make the transition. On the other hand, they have paid good money to get the rights to some oil fields and they have their investors and shareholders to please. So they are milking the oil fields for what they're worth as long as they can (and let the planet be damned).
    Again, the companies investing in solar panels and wind power and biofuel include the major American companies from what I am aware of.

    That was something again that Obama was saying when he said that the workers would have to adjust. Instead of the less convenient but longer-term solution, Trump offered the quick-and-dirty solution of "we let things as they are!" which can work for like just 5-6 more years with some issues and at most 10-15 years with major issues.
    You see, the price of renewable energy is also getting lower. The consumers and townships etc also demand clean air so their elected representatives push back.

    Obama had the long-term solution, Biden promises to return to it gradually. Trump went the other way.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 24, 2020 at 02:17 AM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  2. #1802

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/u...biden-won.html

    Is that kind of threat even legal in the USA?

    If you are asking if it is legal to act like a whiny thin-skinned crybaby who lashes out when he doesn't get his way, then yes.

    If you are asking if he can just double rent because he feels like it, well that depends on the lease his tenants signed. It would still be a monumentally stupid thing to do since it would guarantee he'd have an empty trailer park and a reputation as a lunatic who acts like a spoiled toddler, not exactly the kind of person you want to enter a contract with.

  3. #1803

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    North Carolina man arrested with van full of guns and explosives, had plans to assassinate Joe Biden



    Another one of Trump's base acting out. Get ready for Al-Qaeda style attacks from them once Biden wins.
    He's a Bernie Bro

    https://www.jta.org/2020/10/23/unite...r-for-tibetans

    Looks like he comes from a troubled background
    Ignore List (to save time):

    Exarch, Coughdrop addict

  4. #1804
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    He's a Bernie Bro

    https://www.jta.org/2020/10/23/unite...r-for-tibetans

    Looks like he comes from a troubled background
    Hilarious.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  5. #1805

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    If you are asking if it is legal to act like a whiny thin-skinned crybaby who lashes out when he doesn't get his way, then yes.

    If you are asking if he can just double rent because he feels like it, well that depends on the lease his tenants signed. It would still be a monumentally stupid thing to do since it would guarantee he'd have an empty trailer park and a reputation as a lunatic who acts like a spoiled toddler, not exactly the kind of person you want to enter a contract with.
    He can, theoretically and depending on the state he's in(it is, for instance, criminally illegal to price gouge in Ohio). But you can always, no matter the state, end up with a civil suit on your hands for price gouging...

    https://www.nwitimes.com/uncategoriz...c522ec71e.html

    There's always the random rumor floating around, on top of all of these stories you can easily google, of the citizens just not going to the gas station anymore and it just going out of business.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  6. #1806

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    We are totally at the stage of replacing fossil fuels in the Western world! What are you talking about?
    Obama did a huge effort there. It is the one lasting part of his presidency I would think. And it is opposed by the conservatives.
    Did you forget Trump's promises to bring back coal and the old Republican oil-lobby Mantra of Drill-baby-Drill? Or... what Biden said in the debate?

    Just check what percentage the renewables and alternative sources have gained during the Obama years.
    Yes, the graph doesn't show the Obama years, but you can see USA have hit 11 quadrillion BTU from renewables and that was not Bush2 nor Trump efforts.
    During Obama, renewables jumped from 6.5Q BTU to 11Q BTU while energy consumption remained largely the same.

    As for the workers not knowing that: Again, they vote Trump for this reason. Biden even told them in the Debate yesterday. They are fully aware they're working on trains in the era of automobile.
    We're not as near as you might think. I mean, we're at the stage where coal is just no longer profitable. Oil is getting there for the shear danger of a lot of the places they have to drill. Things like Deepwater Horizon. Nevermind the bribes the companies now have to pay up front for protection fees on foreign drilling grounds. We're at the point where the big oil companies are admitting that transitioning is probably a good idea. Nevermind the pollution problems, we're not going to care about them since Big Oil shamelessly covers them up for the last half century. Just the money problems. And that's where it's starting to hurt them. So they hear Biden talk about transition, and they're not going to have a visceral reaction because, well, they're doing it.

    As for fracking, yea, we're using fracking, but it's employment numbers aren't that impressive. It's not exactly a recession buster. Fracking in Pennsylvania since 2010 accounts for 1 out of 249 jobs. While education and health still accounts for 1 out of every 6. It's a money maker for a corporation though. So good for the corporation. And the water contamination problems it causes in people's back yards means that a lot of the very citizens in the very states that try to make a buck off it wouldn't mind transitioning away from it either. But hey, when you're drinking that crappy water, you're certainly going to need to pay that hospital bill.

    So, now we really know why Pennsylvania is split down the middle on fracking. A small amount of people make money off of it. A smaller amount of people get a job off of it. The rest pay a hospital bill due to it.

    Sure, Trump can try to push that debate line in Texas and Pennsylvania. But one, he doesn't have the money to push it hard enough for ten days to counter Biden's tv message. Two, he doesn't have the message discipline to do it on stage without falling into a rant(to wit: his best feature in the debate was the fact that he didn't fall into an utterly blatant rant and had a semi-coherent message).
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  7. #1807
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Define "not as close as I think". Because I think we're already transitioning, but it will take 20 to 40 years till petroleum (not biodiesel) becomes a niche energy production source (for electricity generation).

    Anyway, Some figures from Florida I just said, claim that Trump/Biden divide in Florida is 40/60 and that 5 million or so voters have voted there. So, if the numbers are correct, we can assume about 2M for Trump, 3M for Biden so far.

    Again, without any shenanigans (and there will be some) I expect 1/40 votes to be lost or be invalid because it is not as easy to vote in mail.
    Pre-cheating, that is 50K Trump lost vs 75K votes for Biden lost. I.e. a net loss of 25K votes for Biden.
    And while 25K votes may not seem much in 5 million votes, Bush2 got Florida and the presidency over 500-600 votes. Obama won Florida in 2012 by 75K votes.
    And as I said, this is pre-cheating or "creative accounting".
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  8. #1808

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Define "not as close as I think". Because I think we're already transitioning, but it will take 20 to 40 years till petroleum (not biodiesel) becomes a niche energy production source (for electricity generation).
    We're leaving coal in the dust because it's not a base ingredient for nearly anything. Too bad for West Virginia's somewhat in denial residents.

    We're transitioning on power regarding petroleum, but a 45 gallon barrel of petroleum only makes 19.4 gallons of gasoline. Cars that, mind you, we are also starting a major transition to electrical cars. Which, I think is ironically a mistake lest someone come down to the garage one morning to find the power was out long enough during the night to find themselves with a dead battery(yea, we've all woken up to the flashing clock before). So mostly hybrid cars is typically the best way to go, I believe as an engineer.

    From there, we need to still figure out how to make hundreds of materials cheaply for which petroleum is a base ingredient. Paint, solvents, tires, certain cheap plastics, piping, trash bags, artificial turf, safety glasses, golf balls, a huge amount of the clothing industry is dependent on this, roofing, tapes, a big huge etcetera.

    So oil will still be used. But, the question is what will it be used for. And what will happen to the countries that build their economies around it and enough of it being used for the world's power.

    Again, without any shenanigans (and there will be some) I expect 1/40 votes to be lost or be invalid because it is not as easy to vote in mail.
    Pre-cheating, that is 50K Trump lost vs 75K votes for Biden lost. I.e. a net loss of 25K votes for Biden.
    And while 25K votes may not seem much in 5 million votes, Bush2 got Florida and the presidency over 500-600 votes. Obama won Florida in 2012 by 75K votes.
    And as I said, this is pre-cheating or "creative accounting".
    You're reading a lot into Florida in extending 2000 to 2020. Florida has an ironic status of "being used to" being a swing state. Their biggest bit of news was having their voter registration system crash the last day of registration, for something like the third presidential election in a row, and the federal judge was forced to roll their eyes in a pissed off manner but deny an extension of registration window as these things are state rules.

    Florida doesn't want another 2000 on their hands. But people are predicting one. In Pennsylvania. And if you go to google, you'll see an entire slew of pre-election court fights up there.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  9. #1809

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    He's a Bernie Bro

    https://www.jta.org/2020/10/23/unite...r-for-tibetans

    Looks like he comes from a troubled background
    It's common for Trump supporters to claim to support someone else when carrying out acts of terrorism.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...g-george-floyd

    At least ISIS wasn't as two-faced as Trump supporters are.

  10. #1810

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    It's common for Trump supporters to claim to support someone else when carrying out acts of terrorism.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...g-george-floyd

    At least ISIS wasn't as two-faced as Trump supporters are.
    Here's you:



    You need a better story than "he works for the other side because I disagree with your story and here's a story about another person just because."

    Let's wait to see what you come up about this specific case.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  11. #1811

    Default Re: USA elections 2020



    Huh …

    Well …

    I mean …

    Jeez.

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  12. #1812
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Lets just play the cut and paste snippets of text out of context shall we... that will get people all in a lather.

    Mandatory whataboutery...

    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  13. #1813

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Lets just play the cut and paste snippets of text out of context shall we... that will get people all in a lather.

    Mandatory whataboutery...

    Well, there ya go. Perhaps one begins to perceive the extent of the problem. Two really awful choices is really no choice at all, is it.

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  14. #1814
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by skh1 View Post
    Well, there ya go. Perhaps one begins to perceive the extent of the problem. Two really awful choices is really no choice at all, is it.
    Actually, in this case, the problem is nothing to do with the two candidates or what they are saying, and you're just being slack with your accountability by suggesting it is.

    The problem is people trying to create misleading narratives that influence others by cutting comments out of context hoping that:

    1. Viewers will not think first before they share the misleading content
    2. Then others view the shared misleading content which develops emotionally informed cognitive biases
    3. Reaffirmed and entrenched emotionally informed cognitive biases prevent them from making truly informed decisions
    4. Person who created misleading content gets their wish - that those they seek to influence don't think for themselves. They just react.

    I think you are stage 1 in this problem scenario.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  15. #1815

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    So it is not the determinedly egregious, relentlessly rebarbative and profoundly unlikeable President Trump nor is it the sadly vague, increasingly attenuated and, alas, rather pointless former Vice-President Biden that is the problem. It's me.

    The tendentious clip cited supra was but a small taste, a soupçon, of the huge or, to coin a phrase, hugely catalogue of gaffes, mis-speaks and, on occasion, actual drivel with which Mr. Biden has bemused us over the last several months. As for President Trump, it is a large question indeed whether this country will be able to fully repair the institutional damage wrought by four or, God forbid, eight years of his tender ministrations. I really don't like President Trump (perhaps you can tell). It's not a matter of his policies. I'm inclined to agree with quite a few of them. No, it's him, the actual him. To my mind, I can lay no greater charge against Donald J. Trump than the fact of his being Donald J. Trump. Perhaps you might think this line of thought shallow, emotional, and devoid of rationality. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm your typical voter.

    My frustration knows no bounds that the best the Democratic Party could come up with out of a vast and actually pretty high quality field is Joe Biden who was once, long ago, in the remotest of pasts (alright, up to about eight years ago) a decent and, most days, a coherent politician. Of his decency, we may be reasonably content (pace Ukraine), but I 'm afraid he has grown too old and frail to be the president of the United States and that a vote for him is really a vote for Senator Kamala Harris. I have the feeling we're being rick rolled here. I guess I'll vote for the guy anyway (or more precisely for her) and will just have to hope for the best. (At least there's the chance the riots will magically disappear if the Democrats get into the White House… Oh, sorry, white House.)

    The economy's ed but then the economy is always being ed.
    Last edited by skh1; October 24, 2020 at 10:37 PM. Reason: speling, speelling, spilling… you know the thing

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  16. #1816
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by skh1 View Post
    So it is not the determinedly egregious, relentlessly rebarbative and profoundly unlikeable President Trump nor is it the sadly vague, increasingly attenuated and, alas, rather pointless former Vice-President Biden that is the problem. It's me.

    The tendentious clip cited supra was but a small taste, a soupçon, of the huge or, to coin a phrase, hugely catalogue of gaffes, mis-speaks and, on occasion, actual drivel with which Mr. Biden has bemused us over the last several months. As for President Trump, it is a large question indeed whether this country will be able to fully repair the institutional damage wrought by four or, God forbid, eight years of his tender ministrations. I really don't like President Trump (perhaps you can tell). It's not a matter of his policies. I'm inclined to agree with quite a few of them. No, it's him, the actual him. To my mind, I can lay no greater charge against Donald J. Trump than the fact of his being Donald J. Trump. Perhaps you might think this line of thought shallow, emotional, and devoid of rationality. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm your typical voter.

    My frustration knows no bounds that the best the Democratic Party could come up with out of a vast and actually pretty high quality field is Joe Biden who was once, long ago, in the remotest of pasts (alright, up to about eight years ago) a decent and, most days, a coherent politician. Of his decency, we may be reasonably content (pace Ukraine), but I 'm afraid he has grown too old and frail to be the president of the United States and that a vote for him is really a vote for Senator Kamala Harris. I have the feeling we're being rick rolled here. I guess I'll vote for the guy anyway (or more precisely for her) and will just have to hope for the best. (At least there's the chance the riots will magically disappear if the Democrats get into the White House… Oh, sorry, white House.)

    The economy's ed but then the economy is always being ed.
    Whether or not the candidate is good is irrelevant within the context of this discussion, where I have critiqued your use of deliberately misleading material. If your point is that the candidate is bad, you don't need to resort to misleading social media blather to make the point. You just need to post what you have here.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  17. #1817

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    … extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.
    What is misleading precisely? Did he not say this?

    The full context:

    Last edited by skh1; October 24, 2020 at 11:03 PM.

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  18. #1818
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by skh1 View Post
    What is misleading precisely? Did he not say this?
    The shortened says that Biden "put together the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organisation..." implying that he is proudly promoting voter fraud. When the full context shows that he was working against voter fraud and off the cuff comments are easy to take out of context if you're wanting to deliberately do that.

    I'm not sure why I need to explain this to you. I guess I did call you on it and pride has made you double down?

    You should have done what others here do and fallen back on the "It's just a harmless joke" line. That would have made me look humourless.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  19. #1819

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Fine, I am properly abashed. (Still said it though.)

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  20. #1820
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    And I am pretty humourless.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

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