USA elections 2020 - 2021

[antaeus]

It is actually a difficult thing for Biden to manage. And I can see over the last couple of days Biden has stepped back a touch.

By all rights Biden should be saying "This is what you get when you're an idiot who ignores medical advice... Who would trust Trump man to give them medical advice when he can't even follow his own scientists advice..." etc etc... really hammering it home... But he can't because it makes him look like a mean old man.

[swabian]

It is actually a difficult thing for Biden to manage. And I can see over the last couple of days Biden has stepped back a touch.

By all rights Biden should be saying "This is what you get when you're an idiot who ignores medical advice... Who would trust Trump man to give them medical advice when he can't even follow his own scientists advice..." etc etc... really hammering it home... But he can't because it makes him look like a mean old man.

I agree, he should absouletly stand back with a comment about Trump's health and Trump's persona in general. He should leave the self-destruction to the Donald, he delivers by himself. The less his own statements are influenced by Trump, the better.

[Coughdrop addict]

[Ludicus]

Coincidence? Well, isn’t everything? On the other hand, Trump may end up fairly asymptomatic and forever strut about his “superior genes”

Probably.
Well, Trump repeatedly asked if he was going to die. "Will I die like Chela?"
But now he says he learned a lot about the disease by going to the real school, the hospital.Trump has been medicated with corticosteroids (dexamethasone) + Regeneron's monoclonal antibody cocktail under compassionate use request + remdesivir. The Idiot-in-Chief isn't taking chloroquine, the miraculous drug that "saved thousands of lives from a certain death".

[swabian]

Hahaha it seems to be true, that he said something like that =D

"Will I die like Chela?"

Where does that quote come from, though? If that is true, i actually am in danger of incontinence from laughter.

edit: i didn't follow the news and it's a copulating relief. I have to say, with a weird and scary grin in my face: I want to see how Pence acts, simply for the giggies. What will the GOP do without their sweet prince in the funniest case of all cases

[Aexodus]

I was incredibly disappointed with that debate. One issue I was disappointed with was the candidate's failure to rebuke street violence. The moderator also fluffed it.

1. The moderator namedropped the proud boys. That's free publicity this violent hard right group doesn't deserve. He also falsely called them white supremacists. They are not, and there is no substantive contrary evidence besides guilt by association falllacies.

2. Trump at best fumbled his response, at worst he dog whistled to the hard right. Either he's old and fumbled it, or he's the 4D chess player his supporters say he is and 'stand by' was more than gabble.

3. Biden equivocated the violent hard left, referring them as 'an idea not an organisation'. An incorporeal idea does not take over police stations, burn them down, or occupy several city blocks. Lone wolf ISIS fighters aren't part of a hierarchical group, but they are part of a network with similar ideological leanings. Antifa is comparable in its structure.

So, in the debate neither candidate actually proposed a way to end the violence. I know there's stuff that's been said outside the debate, but most Americans probably don't follow politics as close as people posting in the mudpit.

[Ludicus]

Where does that quote come from, though?

Trump asks staff whether he 'will die like Chela?'.

[swabian]

@Aexodus

Seriously, why should anyone care about the :wub:? There are thousands of people who are more deserving of my reverence than Trump. What did he ever do that makes him likeable? Ask this yourself. I hope he suffocates like a caught shark on dry land.

[Morifea]

@swabian: I´d rather see him in court and jailed, his whole misery open for the country to behold... and his cronies and the shameless, immoral leaders of the GOP with him.

[Ludicus]

most Americans probably don't follow politics as close as people posting in the mudpit.

True. And more: I agree with those who say that he American political system is irrational, dysfunctional and almost beyond repair. For now, of course. America needs a multi party system, the political bipolarization is a "disease". They need a more flexible political system, less Spartan and more Athenian.
---
Edit. For Trump, the next 2-3 days will be critical.You can have a good oxygen level today, but that means nothing.You can suddenly enter intensive care, in a short period of time.
I sincerely wish him a swift recovery. He is a human being, after all.

[swabian]

@swabian: I´d rather see him in court and jailed, his whole misery open for the country to behold... and his cronies and the shameless, immoral leaders of the GOP with him.

Ugh... I didn't say i want Trump executed, he didn't do anything that is really deserving of that. I basically only said that i would find it funny if he died of corona symptoms. Which is obscene and off-topic, yes. Sorry.

[antaeus]

3. Biden equivocated the violent hard left, referring them as 'an idea not an organisation'. An incorporeal idea does not take over police stations, burn them down, or occupy several city blocks. Lone wolf ISIS fighters aren't part of a hierarchical group, but they are part of a network with similar ideological leanings. Antifa is comparable in its structure.

While I agree with the principle here... that violence should be condemned... I don't agree with the analogy... Islamic terrorism is an opt-in. Anybody can join in so long as you fit the demographic... and that's why it's so difficult to battle. In this respect it is similar to Antifa, anybody can say "I'm an anti-fascist" and they're in. That simple. You do have to tackle both as ideas first, loose unaffiliated groupings second.

Imprisoning people who fear oppression fuels their narrative. In both situations they have to be tackled by carrot and stick. You have to understand their idea and be realistic about your role in it, while using this self reflection to drive a wedge separating those who lead in violence from those who might sympathise under the wrong circumstances.

By standing back and saying "Antifa are bad, they should be arrested" and leaving it at that, you're just adding fuel to the fire. Which is possibly the point behind the law and order crackdown. Fuelling the Antifa fire also fuels your own base. Classic using an out-group to solidify the in-group.

[Aexodus]

While I agree with the principle here... that violence should be condemned... I don't agree with the analogy... Islamic terrorism is an opt-in. Anybody can join in so long as you fit the demographic... and that's why it's so difficult to battle. In this respect it is similar to Antifa, anybody can say "I'm an anti-fascist" and they're in. That simple. You do have to tackle both as ideas first, loose unaffiliated groupings second.

Imprisoning people who fear oppression fuels their narrative. In both situations they have to be tackled by carrot and stick. You have to understand their idea and be realistic about your role in it, while using this self reflection to drive a wedge separating those who lead in violence from those who might sympathise under the wrong circumstances.

By standing back and saying "Antifa are bad, they should be arrested" and leaving it at that, you're just adding fuel to the fire. Which is possibly the point behind the law and order crackdown. Fuelling the Antifa fire also fuels your own base. Classic using an out-group to solidify the in-group.

Islamists should not be imprisoned. It’s not a solution for them, nor is it for anarcho-socialists.

However for Jihadists and left wing militants it is the way to go. Do you see the comparison I’m drawing.

Tell me what the carrot is, because I don’t see one. Just because persuasion>coercion, doesn’t always mean you can persuade ideological radicals out of their ideas. These aren’t necessarily sick people who need cured, the ones who need arrested are the ones breaking the law. That’s all I ask.

Let’s say antifa is an idea, right. The idea that you can exact vigilante violence on someone or something. I don’t care if it’s the actual David Duke himself. It’s wrong and illegal. People who act out on those ideas should be arrested.

My big gripe was the way that hard right militants were mentioned in the debate, but another, different idea/network/group was ignored. Both need put under the cold light of day. We can’t just be blind on our left flank.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Probably.
Well, Trump repeatedly asked if he was going to die. "Will I die like Chela?"
But now he says he learned a lot about the disease by going to the real school, the hospital.Trump has been medicated with corticosteroids (dexamethasone) + Regeneron's monoclonal antibody cocktail under compassionate use request + remdesivir. The Idiot-in-Chief isn't taking chloroquine, the miraculous drug that "saved thousands of lives from a certain death".

As humbling as the experience would be for a normal person, it’s not like it has prompted any introspection on Trump’s part. He must survive and face the voters. I dunno if I can stand periodically stifling my gag reflex for the rest of my life in the event he is martyred by the Chinese Democrat virus. We already have Trump supporter(s) in this thread openly declaring that if Trump doesn’t win, the election must be de facto fraudulent. Imagine deified St. Trump, constantly compared to Reagan, JFK, Jesus, etc by heartsick acolytes reminiscing about 600% economic growth, 40 trillion jobs created, and the alternate history where Xi Jinping, Kim Jong Un, and the Ayatollah would surely have unconditionally surrounded to Trump in person had he lived for another term. No. Trump must face the voters, win or lose.

[Katsumoto]

I was incredibly disappointed with that debate. One issue I was disappointed with was the candidate's failure to rebuke street violence.

But he did?

59:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CweqW7Pzxz8

And he's condemned it repeatedly in the past, see the link below.

3. Biden equivocated the violent hard left, referring them as 'an idea not an organisation'. An incorporeal idea does not take over police stations, burn them down, or occupy several city blocks. Lone wolf ISIS fighters aren't part of a hierarchical group, but they are part of a network with similar ideological leanings. Antifa is comparable in its structure.

He was just repeating what FBI Director Wray had said. I don't think he was suggesting they aren't violent or anything, just that they aren't this organised terror group that conservatives like to pretend they are. He's already condemned them.

"On Sept. 7, 2020, Biden conducted an interview with WGAL’s Barbara Barr in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Barr asked Biden for his views on violent unrest, to which Biden replied: “I’ve condemned it across the board. The president still hasn’t condemned the far-right folks coming out and protesting and using violence.”


Barr then asked Biden “Do you condemn antifa?” To which Biden answered: “Yes I do. Violence, no matter who it is.” "


https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/f...xt/5885435002/

[PointOfViewGun]

In fact, when Biden went out of his way to condemn violence where he wasn't even asked about it, it was Trump that interrupted him. For the millionth time.

[Aexodus]

But he did?

59:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CweqW7Pzxz8

Yes, but this isn’t about Biden. I feel it wasn’t discussed enough in the debate. Good for Joe, he condemns violence.

Obviously he did rebuke street violence and Trump didn’t, I’m still disappointed in the discussion and in Trump. He appeared to indicate militant groups should fight antifa, when that is not their job, it’s law enforcement’s job.

Now when you tell police to stand down, yeah that can cause problems...

And he's condemned it repeatedly in the past, see the link below.

I’m not attacking Biden, it’s just I wasn’t satisfied with how they covered the riots.

He was just repeating what FBI Director Wray had said. I don't think he was suggesting they aren't violent or anything, just that they aren't this organised terror group that conservatives like to pretend they are. He's already condemned them.

I don’t really care what a candidate has done. I’m talking about the debates which reach millions of voters.

On the substance, Antifa being an ideology, a network, whatever, is irrelevant. They exist, they hurt people, which is presumably why....

"On Sept. 7, 2020, Biden conducted an interview with WGAL’s Barbara Barr in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Barr asked Biden for his views on violent unrest, to which Biden replied: “I’ve condemned it across the board. The president still hasn’t condemned the far-right folks coming out and protesting and using violence.”


Barr then asked Biden “Do you condemn antifa?” To which Biden answered: “Yes I do. Violence, no matter who it is.” "


https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/f...xt/5885435002/

...why Biden condemned them. Not what, who. Antifa is made up of people, not just an idea. I don’t want to go on a tangent about militants so I’ll leave it there.

In fact, when Biden went out of his way to condemn violence where he wasn't even asked about it, it was Trump that interrupted him. For the millionth time.

Ok.

[swabian]

But he did?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CweqW7Pzxz8

I admire Biden that he wants to take this on at his age. Age was unfair to him, unlike to the other guy. An old gentleman like Mr. Biden should enjoy his last days and not have to be forced to compete with a turd. Biden does this out of his heart and mind. I think he believes he has to save this crap or am i getting this wrong?

[Katsumoto]

Yes, but this isn’t about Biden. I feel it wasn’t discussed enough in the debate. Good for Joe, he condemns violence.

Oh, did you mean candidates' (as in both of them)? I thought by candidate you meant Biden, as opposed to Trump the incumbent. Grammar is important.

But yeah, in any case, Joe obviously did.

[Aexodus]

I get that you wanna correct the record. I wanna know how the violence which is spurring business owners to sleep in their stores and thousands of Americans to buy guns to defend themselves is going to be stopped. I don’t think it will sputter out on its own. The president does not administrate Police Depts, but he has influence, and he can use federal officers, and even the military.