View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
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  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    34 43.59%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    37 47.44%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    4 5.13%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    3 3.85%
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Thread: USA elections 2020 - 2021

  1. #1061
    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=911138032
    https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...o-reduce-panic

    The president told Bob Woodward in an interview that he intentionally played down the seriousness of COVID-19. In a call on February 7, he said "it's also more deadly than even your strenuous flus... maybe five times more deadly". On March 19, the president said "I always wanted to play it down. I still like playing it down, because I don't want to create a panic."

    It would seem like some Senators had also been similarly briefed.

    Looking at what the president was telling the public at the time and the 190,000 deaths and counting, I'd say his plan didn't work very well.

    So that's no good.
    Last edited by pacifism; September 10, 2020 at 06:11 PM. Reason: added the Senators bit
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  2. #1062
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    190.000/328.200.000 is a mortality rate of 0.57891529 percent. Not considering how these numbers came to be, all the unseen spots, and of course the collateral damage.

  3. #1063

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    On the bright side for Trump, everyone focusing on how he lied through his teeth about COVID takes some of the pressure off from having called American war dead losers and suckers.

  4. #1064
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    After Beau Biden’s cancer progressed to the point where he felt he had to step down as Delaware’s attorney general, Obama offered to lend the Bidens money when Biden’s only other option for supporting his son’s family was to take out a second mortgage on the family home. ‘I’ll give you the money,’ Obama said. ‘I have it. You can pay me back whenever’ –
    I never knew that Obama offered financial assistance when Biden planned to sell his house to support his son, who died of brain cancer.
    In fact, there is no country in the world like America, a country where 63% of cancer patients and loved ones reported financial struggles following a cancer diagnosis. (According to a 2019 survey conducted by The Mesothelioma Center at Asbestos)

    Trump, campaigning in Freeland - the name itself is a sad irony,
    "we are beating them (China) like a drum, we are gaining, gaining, gaining...we are number one"
    Yes,the number one to the point of imbecility. Dr. Francis Collins, Director of the NIH, on observing few masks during President Trump's rallies,

    "Imagine you were an alien who landed on planet Earth and you saw that our planet was afflicted by an infectious disease and that masks were an effective way to prevent the spread. And yet when you went around you saw some people not wearing them, and some people wearing them, and you tried to figure out why, and it turned out it was their political party.
    And you would scratch your head and think this is just not a planet that has much promise for the future."

    Well, that depends on where you want to land. China, with the largest population in the world, reports no new local cases in the last 26 days.
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  5. #1065

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I never knew that Obama offered financial assistance when Biden planned to sell his house to support his son, who died of brain cancer.
    In fact, there is no country in the world like America, a country where 63% of cancer patients and loved ones reported financial struggles following a cancer diagnosis. (According to a 2019 survey conducted by The Mesothelioma Center at Asbestos)

    Trump, campaigning in Freeland - the name itself is a sad irony,
    "we are beating them (China) like a drum, we are gaining, gaining, gaining...we are number one"
    Yes,the number one to the point of imbecility. Dr. Francis Collins, Director of the NIH, on observing few masks during President Trump's rallies,

    "Imagine you were an alien who landed on planet Earth and you saw that our planet was afflicted by an infectious disease and that masks were an effective way to prevent the spread. And yet when you went around you saw some people not wearing them, and some people wearing them, and you tried to figure out why, and it turned out it was their political party.
    And you would scratch your head and think this is just not a planet that has much promise for the future."

    Well, that depends on where you want to land. China, with the largest population in the world, reports no new local cases in the last 26 days.
    Trump supporters spent years swearing that Trump is an infallible genius who has never told a lie in his life, and also cares deeply about them. So they enthusiastically refused mask usage and social distancing to prove their fealty to him and declared the virus a hoax.

    But now they have proof Trump knew all along how bad the virus was, and lied about it out of concern only for how it might make him look. Their well-being was never even so much as an afterthought to him.

    This leaves them in a real bind. They have been arguing the opposite of the experts due to Trump's denial and now they look like idiots. So they can either swallow their pride, admit he was lying to them and cares nothing for them, and start wearing masks and social distancing. Or they can sink deeper into self-delusion and continue to crowd together without masks because Dear Leader would never lie to his beloved true faithful. Sadly many of them have chosen the later.

  6. #1066
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    I'm quite sure Trumpists choose option 2 believing in the final victory of their maximo leader.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  7. #1067
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Literally no self-aware trump voter thinks like coughdrop tried to imply. People vote for trump because the democratic party has shown to be evil. Nothing more. Trump would lose 90-10 to any halfway decent candidate.


    Let's not even get into the hypocrisy of talking about masks when merely 2 months ago the democrats were telling everyone that it is safe to protest WITHOUT masks.
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; September 11, 2020 at 08:52 AM.
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  8. #1068

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Perhaps Democrats should take a long sober look at the state of their own party.
    Their presidential candidate has been in politics for 4 decades, mainly passing laws that imprisoned black people for non-violent offenses. His VP pick is a former corrupt cop that enforced those laws (including jailing people for smoking weed while she herself admitted to smoking it and laughed about it) and withheld evidence that would exonerate a wrongfully convicted person on a ing deathrow.
    Their vapid accusations of "racism" left right and center are vapid projection of their own very real racism and their own very real corruption. Democrats now stand for the most vile things possible - globalism, endless wars in Middle East, surveillance state, gun grabs and other authoritarian crap. They even managed to get rhinos from GOP to join them on their side - I'm sure war criminals like Bush Dubya will help people that voted for Obama not to confuse modern Democrats with the party they voted for in 2008.

  9. #1069

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Let's not even get into the hypocrisy of talking about masks when merely 2 months ago the democrats were telling everyone that it is safe to protest WITHOUT masks.
    It was not so long before that, that "democrats" were, in response to people exercising their rights under the first amendment, demanding martial law, declaring them terrorists and enemy combatants who should be summarily jailed, stripped of their rights and shipped off to Guantanamo.

  10. #1070
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Trump supporters spent years swearing that Trump is an infallible genius who has never told a lie in his life, and also cares deeply about them. So they enthusiastically refused mask usage and social distancing to prove their fealty to him and declared the virus a hoax.

    But now they have proof Trump knew all along how bad the virus was, and lied about it out of concern only for how it might make him look. Their well-being was never even so much as an afterthought to him.

    This leaves them in a real bind. They have been arguing the opposite of the experts due to Trump's denial and now they look like idiots. So they can either swallow their pride, admit he was lying to them and cares nothing for them, and start wearing masks and social distancing. Or they can sink deeper into self-delusion and continue to crowd together without masks because Dear Leader would never lie to his beloved true faithful. Sadly many of them have chosen the later.
    The cult is alive and well, sadly. At this point, Trump could personally murder their families and they'd swear up and down that he's an infallible, perfect being sent by God.
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  11. #1071

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Perhaps Democrats should take a long sober look at the state of their own party.
    Their presidential candidate has been in politics for 4 decades, mainly passing laws that imprisoned black people for non-violent offenses. His VP pick is a former corrupt cop that enforced those laws (including jailing people for smoking weed while she herself admitted to smoking it and laughed about it) and withheld evidence that would exonerate a wrongfully convicted person on a ing deathrow.
    Their vapid accusations of "racism" left right and center are vapid projection of their own very real racism and their own very real corruption. Democrats now stand for the most vile things possible - globalism, endless wars in Middle East, surveillance state, gun grabs and other authoritarian crap. They even managed to get rhinos from GOP to join them on their side - I'm sure war criminals like Bush Dubya will help people that voted for Obama not to confuse modern Democrats with the party they voted for in 2008.
    I'm not sure you understand how American politics(or any politics for that matter) worked before 2008. Call it a hunch, but I think the Democrats like playing a longer game than the Republicans.
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  12. #1072

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I'm not sure you understand how American politics(or any politics for that matter) worked before 2008. Call it a hunch, but I think the Democrats like playing a longer game than the Republicans.
    I'd believe that if they at least did the politically sane thing by acknowledging that their party sucks back in 2016 and tried to work on reasons why electorate doesn't want them, in other works, they had to stop to suck. Instead they assumed it is electorate that is wrong and doubled down on what made Democratic party suck in the first place. In fact, it got to the point that they are now embracing neocon Rhino fifth column of GOP, opposition to which was what made them win 2008 and 2012.
    So there is no "longer game", Democrats are just party with leadership with ideology. Whether that comes from general stupidity of its leadership or internal sabotage is another question, but in context of election it doesn't matter.

  13. #1073

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    reasons why electorate doesn't want them
    Funny hearing this, given the democratic party won the popular vote in 2016 and won the house in 2018.

  14. #1074

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    Funny hearing this, given the democratic party won the popular vote in 2016
    That's irrelevant to how US electoral system works. If you want popular vote to decide who wins, then you'd have to break up US into several more politically homogeneous areas.
    and won the house in 2018.
    Opposition gets the House in midterm elections almost every time. "Blue wave" never happened though.

  15. #1075

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Both of your comments are non sequiturs re my post.

  16. #1076

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    Both of your comments are non sequiturs re my post.
    No, they explain why your post is non sequiturs to my post.

  17. #1077

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I'd believe that if they at least did the politically sane thing by acknowledging that their party sucks back in 2016 and tried to work on reasons why electorate doesn't want them, in other works, they had to stop to suck. Instead they assumed it is electorate that is wrong and doubled down on what made Democratic party suck in the first place. In fact, it got to the point that they are now embracing neocon Rhino fifth column of GOP, opposition to which was what made them win 2008 and 2012.
    So there is no "longer game", Democrats are just party with leadership with ideology. Whether that comes from general stupidity of its leadership or internal sabotage is another question, but in context of election it doesn't matter.
    Well, I mean, if you want a political platform with such a lack of morals and ethics that its sole goal is to win, sure. You have no long game. You're only goal is to gain seats. You have no idea why you're gaining seats. About all the Republicans can do with the Senate is fill Judgeships, because, again, gain seats. Right now the Republican Party is nothing more than a conspiracy to seize power. They don't even have a platform I can fundamentally disagree with. They just want power. And there is something fundamentally wrong with that from the concept of a political party.

    Meanwhile, let's look at the history. From the 1930's on. The New Deal has been passed and it's about time for FDR's next election. Sadly, seventyish years after the Civil War you can't just trade on the idea that you're the party that freed the slaves alone. You actually have to do something. Roosevelt has passed the New Deal, albeit in a rather neutral fashion. After Hoover did a crap job of saving the country from the Depression. The Black voters stuck by him for 1932, but after the New Deal and its contingent agencies were put in place, FDR put in place what the press like to unofficially call his Black Cabinet. The informal term for the group of African Americans that served as public policy advisers to FDR and Eleanor during his terms and by mid-1935 they were working in federal executive departments and New Deal Agencies to help provide insight and shape policy for the needs of African Americans.

    For all black party identification was roughly evenly matched at slightly below 40 R - slightly above 40 D for 1936, the black vote for 1936 was 71% Democrat, and didn't lower perceptibly until 1956 when Eisenhower ran for his second term and got 40% of the black vote, in part because of voters' disillusionment with Southern Democrats anti-civil rights efforts. Even those inside Eisenhower's aministration knew something was off though. E. Frederick Morrow, the first African American to service in an executive staff position at the White House, spotted the GOP's often indifferent efforts to court black constituencies.

    Here's the thing. Even as late as 1960, only about two thirds of black voters were identified with the Democrats. When you count the vote, that's a big number. But compared to today, that's pretty small.

    But, Barry Goldwater happened.

    This 'revolutionary shift' happened when hundreds of college students, most white, journeyed to Mississippi to help black citizens register to vote. The states response was swift and violent. And less than a month before the GOP's national convention in San Francisco. Andrew Goodman, James Chaney, and Michael Schwerner were kidnapped on a back road in Neshoba County and the only clue they existed was a charred Ford station wagon.

    Two weeks later Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act into law.

    Events outside the GOP's convention hall affected what went on inside. Supporters of presumed front-runner Governor Nelson Rockefeller were blindsided, and Senator Barry Goldwater was nominated. "Mr. Conservative" would run. He believed the Civil Rights Act was unconstitutional - although he said that once it had been enacted into law, it would be obeyed. But states should implement the law in their own time. White southerners, segregationists, caught the message, and were reassured.

    Black Americans also caught the message, and were not.

    In his acceptance speech, Goldwater told the convention "extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" while speaking of a very specific notion of liberty. Small government. A government that doesn't have laws that interfere. A government that is not conducting a war on poverty. Goldwater attracted the white Southern votes his advisers thought were essential, opening up the doors for the "Southern Strategy" that Nixon and Reagan would use to great success.

    The relatively few, but still not trivial, amount of black voters still in the Republican Party? Message recieved. They moved aggressively, and almost unanimously, into the Democratic Party. They've stayed there through the generations ever since. Not that all of them want to be there. To be shown why later.

    The Black Vote for Republican president in 1964 was then less than 10%. The Black percentage of registered Republicans in 1964 were then roughly 10%. Democrat percent appropriately skyrocketed. Barry's loss was massive. 486-52. Johnson with 61% of the popular vote.

    In 1967, George Romney fell from great heights, killing the Moderate Republicans Last Stand. While explaining his former support for the war during an interview, he said, "When I came back from Vietnam, I just had the greatest brainwashing that anybody can get." Claiming the military and diplomatic establishment brainwashed you wasn't a good thing to say then or now. Nixon acted quickly to stab him in the back. Having long understood the amount that he could win with just 5% more of the black vote, but also understanding the racist forces in play in the Republican Party that brought Goldwater to the nomination remained the center of power despite Goldwater's defeat, Nixon acted to play them. He argued the primary civil right in America was to be protected from violence. White voters fears of Black Americans' demands for civil rights made them uncomfortable with politicians who might support them. Politicians like Romney. Nixon, famously running as a "law and order" candidate, wanted these white voters. He got the nomination after a messy convention argued over how tightly to tie to the Southern Base. Reagan tried to make a run. It all ended only after Strom Thurmond stepped in on Nixon's behalf.

    More than half a century later, over and over again, Republicans have faced the choice between a big-tent strategy and specific appeals to white voters. And it's not as if people aren't pleading for Republican racial attitudes to change.

    This time it worked. Though ironically for implementing the Southern Strategy they got very little of the South. George Wallace ran independant and got the deep south. Nixon wiped the floor with Humphrey.

    In 1978 the Republican Party chairman Bill Brock invited Jesse Jackson to talk to party notables in DC as one of the few militant blacks preaching racial reconciliation. According to Jackson, there were seven million unregistered black voters waiting to be wooed by the GOP. "The Republican Party needs black people if it is to ever compete for national office -- or, in fact, to keep it from becoming an extinct party." Jackson got a standing ovation from the crowd, good feelings of the day left them hoping the right 1980 candidate could hope for anywhere from 30-40 percent of the black vote.

    Reagan would get only 14 percent.

    So Jackson made the argument that Black voters should want the two parties to compete for their votes. He worried the Democrats would take the Black voters for granted. (And, well, 40 years later, Joe Biden tells a radio host: "I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't Black.") Here's the thing, Jackson's personal conservatism could pretty much be seen as emblematic of that of Black Americans. Something that could be potentially courted by the GOP. He denounces abortion as murder. He insists that when prayers leave schools the guns come in. He suggests that while he supported women's liberation, his wife should at least stay in her place...his home.

    But the 1978 vibes didn't last long. Republican bureaucrats coalesced around the idea that minority voters were unwinnable. A few months before Jackson's speech, President Carter introduced electoral reforms. An end to the Electoral College and same-day universal voter registration, that Brock had praised. Thing is, an essay soon appeared in the publication Human Events that expressed the view that Carter's proposal "could blow the Republican Party sky-high" given that most of the new voters in higher-turnout elections would be Democratic. Brock's flip-flop embodies many of the internal struggles of the GOP of the last few decades: should the GOP invest in appeals to new voters or pluck racism's low-hanging fruit? By the time Reagan appeared at a 1980 campaign stop at the National Urban League, it wasn't to win over Black Voters. Just to show he wasn't anti-black.

    In 1981, Trenton, New Jersy, around the largely Black and Hispanic districts ominous signs hung outside several polling places:

    WARNING
    THIS AREA IS BEING PATROLLED BY THE NATIONAL BALLOT SECURITY TASK FORCE
    IT IS A CRIME TO FALSIFY A BALLOT OR TO VIOLATE ELECTION LAWS

    The Task force was composed of county deputy sheriffs and local police who patrolled polling sites with guns in full view. A court complaint later lodged described them harassing poll workers, stopping and questioning prospective voters and forcibly restraining poll workers from assisting, as permitted by state law, voters to cast their ballots.

    This was not some rogue enterprise or ill-conceived product of extremists. It was funded by the Republican Party. While the group's goals were, ostensibly to prevent illegal voting, one couldn't take that at face value from behavior. It was more like an intimidation effort. The Republican National Committee was forced into a court-enforced consent agreement that it would not engage into such "efforts", efforts the court deemed racially motivated, until 2018.

    In 2005, RNC chair Ken Mehlman appeared at the NAACP convention to formally apologize for the GOP southern strategy. "Some Republicans gave up on winning the African American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

    Maybe befitting a party whose sitting president ran as the "compassionate conservative". No accident. "I felt compelled to phrase it this way," Bush said. "Because people hear 'conservative' and they think heartless." Rove is a bit more blunt. "It helped Bush indicate he was different from previous Republicans."

    Bush's platform aimed to be inclusive. We hack on No Child Left Behind in hindsight. Just like many other large laws. But the funding it tried to push to low income students, many of them home to black and Hispanic students, is key. Bush signed it into law with Ted Kennedy's support and two black children standing directly behind him. Today that's a picture for a war crimes trial.

    Despite this compassionate conservatism rhetoric and even large policies that seemed to try to go somewhere and maybe run into a wall, the GOP of the Bush era continued to pursue policies hostile to Americans of color. Especially on voting rights.

    No figure from the Bush Civil Rights Division emerged more controversial than Hans von Spakovsky. He promoted voter ID laws in Georgia starting in the 1990s, and once in DoJ gained infamy for pseudonymously writing a law review paper under "Publius" which promoted such laws. His identity was revealed later, and he refused to recuse himself from a controversial case involving voter ID in Georgia. The case led career DoJ lawyers to resign and enforcement came to a standstill. Only 48 changes out of 81,000 submitted, ten times fewer than the first four years of Reagan. He also served on Trump's now-disbanded Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity, created to investigate whether Trump lost the vote to Hillary Clinton because of voter fraud. No evidence was ever produced.

    The loss of the 2012 election prompted a crisis of confidence among the GOP leadership. They would author what is known as, officially, the "Growth and Opportunity Project" that placed the GOP's problems in harsh terms. "Many minorities wrongly think that Republicans do not like them or want them in the country."

    Three years after the report's publication, the GOP nominated Donald Trump, an anti-immigrant, race-baiting candidate. "How did people abandon deeply held beliefs in four years? I think the only conclusion is they don't. They didn't deeply hold them. They were just marketing slogans," Stuart Stevens said. "I feel like the guy working for Bernie Madoff who thought we were beating the market."

    The party has circled the wagons around Trump and his rhetoric and policies. Gone are the days of articulate philosophies like "compassionate conservatism". Now, contrarianism to distinguish itself and stoke the good feels among its core members. Russia was once our number one Geo-political foe. Now the party heaps praise on Vladimir Putin. The North Star: reliance on politics of race and racism. Membership in the party wanes and America grows more diverse all the while.

    Republicans know the Faustian bargain they've made. A 2007 interview of John McCain during his presidential run speaks to scary awareness of the short-term strategy of placating the white base and how it can damage the GOP's long-term demographics. McCain is asked the political ramifications of the immigration debate: "In the short term, it probably galvanizes our base. In the long term, if you alienate Hispanics, you'll pay a heavy price. By the way, I think the fence is least effective, but I'll build the goddamned fence if they want it."

    So why are generations of Black Voters 90% large voting Democratic in spite of what their beliefs are? In spite of how conservative or liberal they are? How do you provoke an entire race 30% of the population large to outright shift against you? You turn hostile and you stay hostile. These people aren't the hispanics where California is different from Texas is different from Florida. The Republicans just outright turned completely hostile and the Democrats doing mostly nothing and occasionally dropping them a few bits and pieces is better than the Republicans destroying their lives.
    Last edited by Gaidin; September 11, 2020 at 07:43 PM.
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  18. #1078
    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    This post seems to have mostly drawn from an article called The Republican Choice. Basically, 2016 isn't the first time the GOP was given the choice to appeal to more minorities but then pivoted away from it. It has been the Republicans' deliberate choice since the 1960s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    190.000/328.200.000 is a mortality rate of 0.57891529 percent. Not considering how these numbers came to be, all the unseen spots, and of course the collateral damage.
    You missed a zero. It's actually 0.06% of the American population dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Literally no self-aware trump voter thinks like coughdrop tried to imply. People vote for trump because the democratic party has shown to be evil. Nothing more. Trump would lose 90-10 to any halfway decent candidate.
    President Truman, who as you know permitted the only use of nuclear weapons in war, had a sign on his desk that said "THE BUCK STOPS HERE". It meant that the President is the leader, and that he is not allowed to pass the buck (responsibility or blame) to someone else for the decisions he made and the choices pursued under his watch. If the president thinks he can lie about the gravity of the situation to his country and pass the buck to a bunch of broke states, he's got another thing coming. So one thing the Democrats have going for them is that their leaders aren't as evil as letting a six-figure sum of Americans die to "avoid a panic". At this point I'm not sure if he meant a social panic, or just an economic one.

    At yet, here we are 50% Biden, 43% Trump, with the president's aggregate approval rating never above 46% or below 36%. I wouldn't underestimate the analogy of two-party politics to a football rivalry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Let's not even get into the hypocrisy of talking about masks when merely 2 months ago the democrats were telling everyone that it is safe to protest WITHOUT masks.
    Actually, let's. Who said that? Some politicians didn't follow their own recommendations, like Rep. Pelosi, Mayor de Blaiso, and Gov. Cuomo, but who recommended not wearing masks at protests? Supporting protests is very different from advocating for protests with no masks and no social distancing. Who would do that?

    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ergency-powers
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...lenty-n1231654

    Who would do that?

    Hmm...
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  19. #1079

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    This post seems to have mostly drawn from an article called The Republican Choice. Basically, 2016 isn't the first time the GOP was given the choice to appeal to more minorities but then pivoted away from it. It has been the Republicans' deliberate choice since the 1960s.
    If it were as simple as the sixties I would've started at the sixties and just linked an article they wouldn't read instead of starting in the thirties and bothering to write the thing out. Mostly for the sake of others and then to have HH deny it anyway?

    The Republicans have done the research about the minority vote many times over the last century. Ranging from the 1930s on up to the 2010s. Everytime it just gets shelved to just rile up the white voter. Meanwhile, the minority populations are increasing decade by decade.
    Last edited by Gaidin; September 12, 2020 at 01:07 AM.
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  20. #1080
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Well, I mean, if you want a political platform with such a lack of morals and ethics that its sole goal is to win, sure. You have no long game. You're only goal is to gain seats. You have no idea why you're gaining seats. About all the Republicans can do with the Senate is fill Judgeships, because, again, gain seats. Right now the Republican Party is nothing more than a conspiracy to seize power. They don't even have a platform I can fundamentally disagree with. They just want power. And there is something fundamentally wrong with that from the concept of a political party.

    Meanwhile, let's look at the history. From the 1930's on. The New Deal has been passed and it's about time for FDR's next election. Sadly, seventyish years after the Civil War you can't just trade on the idea that you're the party that freed the slaves alone. You actually have to do something. Roosevelt has passed the New Deal, albeit in a rather neutral fashion. After Hoover did a crap job of saving the country from the Depression. The Black voters stuck by him for 1932, but after the New Deal and its contingent agencies were put in place, FDR put in place what the press like to unofficially call his Black Cabinet. The informal term for the group of African Americans that served as public policy advisers to FDR and Eleanor during his terms and by mid-1935 they were working in federal executive departments and New Deal Agencies to help provide insight and shape policy for the needs of African Americans.

    For all black party identification was roughly evenly matched at slightly below 40 R - slightly above 40 D for 1936, the black vote for 1936 was 71% Democrat, and didn't lower perceptibly until 1956 when Eisenhower ran for his second term and got 40% of the black vote, in part because of voters' disillusionment with Southern Democrats anti-civil rights efforts. Even those inside Eisenhower's aministration knew something was off though. E. Frederick Morrow, the first African American to service in an executive staff position at the White House, spotted the GOP's often indifferent efforts to court black constituencies.

    Here's the thing. Even as late as 1960, only about two thirds of black voters were identified with the Democrats. When you count the vote, that's a big number. But compared to today, that's pretty small.

    But, Barry Goldwater happened.

    This 'revolutionary shift' happened when hundreds of college students, most white, journeyed to Mississippi to help black citizens register to vote. The states response was swift and violent. And less than a month before the GOP's national convention in San Francisco. Andrew Goodman, James Chaney, and Michael Schwerner were kidnapped on a back road in Neshoba County and the only clue they existed was a charred Ford station wagon.

    Two weeks later Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act into law.

    Events outside the GOP's convention hall affected what went on inside. Supporters of presumed front-runner Governor Nelson Rockefeller were blindsided, and Senator Barry Goldwater was nominated. "Mr. Conservative" would run. He believed the Civil Rights Act was unconstitutional - although he said that once it had been enacted into law, it would be obeyed. But states should implement the law in their own time. White southerners, segregationists, caught the message, and were reassured.

    Black Americans also caught the message, and were not.

    In his acceptance speech, Goldwater told the convention "extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" while speaking of a very specific notion of liberty. Small government. A government that doesn't have laws that interfere. A government that is not conducting a war on poverty. Goldwater attracted the white Southern votes his advisers thought were essential, opening up the doors for the "Southern Strategy" that Nixon and Reagan would use to great success.

    The relatively few, but still not trivial, amount of black voters still in the Republican Party? Message recieved. They moved aggressively, and almost unanimously, into the Democratic Party. They've stayed there through the generations ever since. Not that all of them want to be there. To be shown why later.

    The Black Vote for Republican president in 1964 was then less than 10%. The Black percentage of registered Republicans in 1964 were then roughly 10%. Democrat percent appropriately skyrocketed. Barry's loss was massive. 486-52. Johnson with 61% of the popular vote.

    In 1967, George Romney fell from great heights, killing the Moderate Republicans Last Stand. While explaining his former support for the war during an interview, he said, "When I came back from Vietnam, I just had the greatest brainwashing that anybody can get." Claiming the military and diplomatic establishment brainwashed you wasn't a good thing to say then or now. Nixon acted quickly to stab him in the back. Having long understood the amount that he could win with just 5% more of the black vote, but also understanding the racist forces in play in the Republican Party that brought Goldwater to the nomination remained the center of power despite Goldwater's defeat, Nixon acted to play them. He argued the primary civil right in America was to be protected from violence. White voters fears of Black Americans' demands for civil rights made them uncomfortable with politicians who might support them. Politicians like Romney. Nixon, famously running as a "law and order" candidate, wanted these white voters. He got the nomination after a messy convention argued over how tightly to tie to the Southern Base. Reagan tried to make a run. It all ended only after Strom Thurmond stepped in on Nixon's behalf.

    More than half a century later, over and over again, Republicans have faced the choice between a big-tent strategy and specific appeals to white voters. And it's not as if people aren't pleading for Republican racial attitudes to change.

    This time it worked. Though ironically for implementing the Southern Strategy they got very little of the South. George Wallace ran independant and got the deep south. Nixon wiped the floor with Humphrey.

    In 1978 the Republican Party chairman Bill Brock invited Jesse Jackson to talk to party notables in DC as one of the few militant blacks preaching racial reconciliation. According to Jackson, there were seven million unregistered black voters waiting to be wooed by the GOP. "The Republican Party needs black people if it is to ever compete for national office -- or, in fact, to keep it from becoming an extinct party." Jackson got a standing ovation from the crowd, good feelings of the day left them hoping the right 1980 candidate could hope for anywhere from 30-40 percent of the black vote.

    Reagan would get only 14 percent.

    So Jackson made the argument that Black voters should want the two parties to compete for their votes. He worried the Democrats would take the Black voters for granted. (And, well, 40 years later, Joe Biden tells a radio host: "I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't Black.") Here's the thing, Jackson's personal conservatism could pretty much be seen as emblematic of that of Black Americans. Something that could be potentially courted by the GOP. He denounces abortion as murder. He insists that when prayers leave schools the guns come in. He suggests that while he supported women's liberation, his wife should at least stay in her place...his home.

    But the 1978 vibes didn't last long. Republican bureaucrats coalesced around the idea that minority voters were unwinnable. A few months before Jackson's speech, President Carter introduced electoral reforms. An end to the Electoral College and same-day universal voter registration, that Brock had praised. Thing is, an essay soon appeared in the publication Human Events that expressed the view that Carter's proposal "could blow the Republican Party sky-high" given that most of the new voters in higher-turnout elections would be Democratic. Brock's flip-flop embodies many of the internal struggles of the GOP of the last few decades: should the GOP invest in appeals to new voters or pluck racism's low-hanging fruit? By the time Reagan appeared at a 1980 campaign stop at the National Urban League, it wasn't to win over Black Voters. Just to show he wasn't anti-black.

    In 1981, Trenton, New Jersy, around the largely Black and Hispanic districts ominous signs hung outside several polling places:

    WARNING
    THIS AREA IS BEING PATROLLED BY THE NATIONAL BALLOT SECURITY TASK FORCE
    IT IS A CRIME TO FALSIFY A BALLOT OR TO VIOLATE ELECTION LAWS

    The Task force was composed of county deputy sheriffs and local police who patrolled polling sites with guns in full view. A court complaint later lodged described them harassing poll workers, stopping and questioning prospective voters and forcibly restraining poll workers from assisting, as permitted by state law, voters to cast their ballots.

    This was not some rogue enterprise or ill-conceived product of extremists. It was funded by the Republican Party. While the group's goals were, ostensibly to prevent illegal voting, one couldn't take that at face value from behavior. It was more like an intimidation effort. The Republican National Committee was forced into a court-enforced consent agreement that it would not engage into such "efforts", efforts the court deemed racially motivated, until 2018.

    In 2005, RNC chair Ken Mehlman appeared at the NAACP convention to formally apologize for the GOP southern strategy. "Some Republicans gave up on winning the African American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

    Maybe befitting a party whose sitting president ran as the "compassionate conservative". No accident. "I felt compelled to phrase it this way," Bush said. "Because people hear 'conservative' and they think heartless." Rove is a bit more blunt. "It helped Bush indicate he was different from previous Republicans."

    Bush's platform aimed to be inclusive. We hack on No Child Left Behind in hindsight. Just like many other large laws. But the funding it tried to push to low income students, many of them home to black and Hispanic students, is key. Bush signed it into law with Ted Kennedy's support and two black children standing directly behind him. Today that's a picture for a war crimes trial.

    Despite this compassionate conservatism rhetoric and even large policies that seemed to try to go somewhere and maybe run into a wall, the GOP of the Bush era continued to pursue policies hostile to Americans of color. Especially on voting rights.

    No figure from the Bush Civil Rights Division emerged more controversial than Hans von Spakovsky. He promoted voter ID laws in Georgia starting in the 1990s, and once in DoJ gained infamy for pseudonymously writing a law review paper under "Publius" which promoted such laws. His identity was revealed later, and he refused to recuse himself from a controversial case involving voter ID in Georgia. The case led career DoJ lawyers to resign and enforcement came to a standstill. Only 48 changes out of 81,000 submitted, ten times fewer than the first four years of Reagan. He also served on Trump's now-disbanded Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity, created to investigate whether Trump lost the vote to Hillary Clinton because of voter fraud. No evidence was ever produced.

    The loss of the 2012 election prompted a crisis of confidence among the GOP leadership. They would author what is known as, officially, the "Growth and Opportunity Project" that placed the GOP's problems in harsh terms. "Many minorities wrongly think that Republicans do not like them or want them in the country."

    Three years after the report's publication, the GOP nominated Donald Trump, an anti-immigrant, race-baiting candidate. "How did people abandon deeply held beliefs in four years? I think the only conclusion is they don't. They didn't deeply hold them. They were just marketing slogans," Stuart Stevens said. "I feel like the guy working for Bernie Madoff who thought we were beating the market."

    The party has circled the wagons around Trump and his rhetoric and policies. Gone are the days of articulate philosophies like "compassionate conservatism". Now, contrarianism to distinguish itself and stoke the good feels among its core members. Russia was once our number one Geo-political foe. Now the party heaps praise on Vladimir Putin. The North Star: reliance on politics of race and racism. Membership in the party wanes and America grows more diverse all the while.

    Republicans know the Faustian bargain they've made. A 2007 interview of John McCain during his presidential run speaks to scary awareness of the short-term strategy of placating the white base and how it can damage the GOP's long-term demographics. McCain is asked the political ramifications of the immigration debate: "In the short term, it probably galvanizes our base. In the long term, if you alienate Hispanics, you'll pay a heavy price. By the way, I think the fence is least effective, but I'll build the goddamned fence if they want it."

    So why are generations of Black Voters 90% large voting Democratic in spite of what their beliefs are? In spite of how conservative or liberal they are? How do you provoke an entire race 30% of the population large to outright shift against you? You turn hostile and you stay hostile. These people aren't the hispanics where California is different from Texas is different from Florida. The Republicans just outright turned completely hostile and the Democrats doing mostly nothing and occasionally dropping them a few bits and pieces is better than the Republicans destroying their lives.
    Yawn. This election isn't about Republican vs Democrat. This election is about globalism vs nationalism. The influx of illegals and indiscriminate immigration has diminished the power of the black vote along with planned parenthood. Both those issues are holy to the Democrat party. A lot of blacks have figured that out. Whether or not it is over the 15% threshold remains to be seen. November the 3rd will tell the tell. You're still thinking in the old paradigm that existed before Ted Kennedy's immigration bill of 1965. It is no longer applicable. You would have thought that the Dems would have figured this out after 2016. They're still counting eggs as chickens.
    Last edited by B. W.; September 12, 2020 at 01:10 AM.

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