View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
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  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    34 43.59%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    37 47.44%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    4 5.13%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    3 3.85%
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Thread: USA elections 2020 - 2021

  1. #1021
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    TimPool is a not a trustworthy person. Most of his videos are basically "it's true because I said so".
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  2. #1022

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    TimPool is a not a trustworthy person. Most of his videos are basically "it's true because I said so".
    Well, he is a centrist liberal, who voted Democrat all his life, which I think is what matters here. He did cite articles regarding other Democrats jumping ship, although you are kinda right about him saying something and nothing at the same time.

  3. #1023
    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    For a centrist, he sure defends a lot of right-wing talking points.
    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    I stand by those statements.
    Of course you do. The alternative is that you made a mistake.

    I guess that means NYT is only right when they report stuff you agree with. How about this: if you say that you were calling them fake news only because you didn't agree with what they were saying, I will defend that Trump never called dead vets losers and suckers.
    Last edited by pacifism; September 08, 2020 at 12:02 PM. Reason: English conjugation is hard.
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  4. #1024
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Using Breitbart to call out other publications is kind of self-defeating.
    How so? I just showed that in this instance Breitbart was the only publication to dig down and get the truth using multiple sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post


    Of course you do. The alternative is that you made a mistake.

    I guess that means NYT is only right when they report stuff you agree with. How about this: if you say that you were calling them fake news only because you didn't agree with what they were saying, I will defend that Trump never called dead vets losers and suckers.
    I didn't make a mistake as I have explained quite thoroughly. You, however, did not answer the question. Which is it? A.,B.,or C.?

  5. #1025
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    It's okay for people to make mistakes, as long as we acknowledge them and try to learn from them. Wouldn't you agree?

    I didn't answer your question because I don't really care about that issue. Let me explain. It's not that I don't care because I believe them by default. It's that I haven't made up my mind about the Atlantic story because I haven't researched it. I haven't researched it because it's not very important to me. It's not going to radically change my opinion of the president if it's true. It's not going to radically change my opinion of the president if it's false. This is just one thing that the president may have done. Haven't you noticed that I have not defended what the Atlantic, Washington Post, Associated Press, Fox News, and CNN reported?

    What is important to me is you will sincerely call a whole newspaper fake news because it says something you disagree with, and equally sincerely use it as a source whenever it says something you agree with. That's inconsistent. Deciding the credibility of a claim beforehand is plain confirmation bias.

    I often get stuff wrong, it's nothing personal to me. My views change, my political opinions don't define me, etc. When's the last time you admitted you were wrong about something? When have you ever changed your mind? Or do you not do that? Is there any point in me talking to you?
    Last edited by pacifism; September 08, 2020 at 01:12 PM. Reason: clarifying that I'm not being slippery.
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  6. #1026
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    How so? I just showed that in this instance Breitbart was the only publication to dig down and get the truth using multiple sources.
    Please excuse me if I do not truest the only publication that has been caught lying more than the Washington Post.
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  7. #1027
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Name a billionaire who never had lawsuits filed against his businesses in 50 years of being in the industry. Pro-tip: you can't.
    That's certainly not a sign that he mistreated his workers nor that he looks down on someone for being working class. IMO he just judges people by how energetic and results-oriented they are, certainly qualities that Democrat brass lacks, which forgot its place as civil servants and views itself as some kind of neo-nobility, explaining why their hatred for the man goes beyond their petty politics.
    Same reason why defenders of crumbling corrupt Republic hated Caesar and later Augustus.
    1. Name a billionaire that's not a complete butthole that has even half of the lawsuits against him after 40 years in the industry.
    2. If he looks for results-oriented people then why he put his daughter as senior adviser and kept his son-in-law (that didn't do crap for a couple of years) as a high-ranking adviser?
    3. Caesar was a despotic dictator.
    4. Augustus was the final nail in the Republic's coffin.
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  8. #1028

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    1. Name a billionaire that's not a complete butthole that has even half of the lawsuits against him after 40 years in the industry.
    2. If he looks for results-oriented people then why he put his daughter as senior adviser and kept his son-in-law (that didn't do crap for a couple of years) as a high-ranking adviser?
    3. Caesar was a despotic dictator.
    4. Augustus was the final nail in the Republic's coffin.
    1. That's a subjective assessment, to say the least, especially in light of Trump being in media's spotlight for the past 5 years. Let's be realistic here, guys like Jacob Rothschild or Rockefeller probably have more skeletons in their closets then Trump has closets.
    2. Seems like an old American tradition - Bushes, Kenedies, Clintons, etc.
    3. Dictator in context of Roman Republic means not what you think it means in modern context. Think more of a guy who is given supreme authority to carry the State through trying times like foreign invasion or famine.
    4. And his reign resulted with centuries of Pax Romana. If Republic remained, Rome would likely not exist as superpower for that long.

  9. #1029

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    1. That's a subjective assessment, to say the least, especially in light of Trump being in media's spotlight for the past 5 years. Let's be realistic here, guys like Jacob Rothschild or Rockefeller probably have more skeletons in their closets then Trump has closets.
    2. Seems like an old American tradition - Bushes, Kenedies, Clintons, etc.
    3. Dictator in context of Roman Republic means not what you think it means in modern context. Think more of a guy who is given supreme authority to carry the State through trying times like foreign invasion or famine.
    4. And his reign resulted with centuries of Pax Romana. If Republic remained, Rome would likely not exist as superpower for that long.
    I think you're now defending nepotism. And that's all there really is to say about this post.
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  10. #1030
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    It's okay for people to make mistakes, as long as we acknowledge them and try to learn from them. Wouldn't you agree?

    I didn't answer your question because I don't really care about that issue. Let me explain. It's not that I don't care because I believe them by default. It's that I haven't made up my mind about the Atlantic story because I haven't researched it. I haven't researched it because it's not very important to me. It's not going to radically change my opinion of the president if it's true. It's not going to radically change my opinion of the president if it's false. This is just one thing that the president may have done. Haven't you noticed that I have not defended what the Atlantic, Washington Post, Associated Press, Fox News, and CNN reported?

    What is important to me is you will sincerely call a whole newspaper fake news because it says something you disagree with, and equally sincerely use it as a source whenever it says something you agree with. That's inconsistent. Deciding the credibility of a claim beforehand is plain confirmation bias.

    I often get stuff wrong, it's nothing personal to me. My views change, my political opinions don't define me, etc. When's the last time you admitted you were wrong about something? When have you ever changed your mind? Or do you not do that? Is there any point in me talking to you?
    Now you're just flat out lying. If you didn't care you wouldn't have piped up like you did in post #988. Now answer the question: a,b, or C?

    And yes, when I make a mistake I admit it, even if it's embarrassing. Just check the climate thread if you don't believe me. You're the one who can't admit their mistake. If you could you would answer the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Please excuse me if I do not truest the only publication that has been caught lying more than the Washington Post.
    That's a flaky excuse. Just answer the question.

  11. #1031

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I think you're now defending nepotism. And that's all there really is to say about this post.
    Nepotism has always been part of US politics, so your accusation makes no sense. In fact, Trump is the least nepotistic of all the recent president, given how uninvolved his wife is compared to say that of Obama, Bush sr., Clinton or Reagan.

  12. #1032

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    B. W., I notice you voted Libertarian in the poll. How come? I know you didn't support Trump in the 2016 primary, but I thought you were supporting him for 2020
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  13. #1033
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    1. That's a subjective assessment, to say the least, especially in light of Trump being in media's spotlight for the past 5 years. Let's be realistic here, guys like Jacob Rothschild or Rockefeller probably have more skeletons in their closets then Trump has closets.
    2. Seems like an old American tradition - Bushes, Kenedies, Clintons, etc.
    3. Dictator in context of Roman Republic means not what you think it means in modern context. Think more of a guy who is given supreme authority to carry the State through trying times like foreign invasion or famine.
    4. And his reign resulted with centuries of Pax Romana. If Republic remained, Rome would likely not exist as superpower for that long.
    1. OK, tell me one non-butthole Billionaire that got even half the lawsuits Trump got in the 90s. You're mentioning Rothschild and Rockfellers... but then you call them butthole billionaires. According to you Trump is not evil nor he looks down on the blue collar working man. I asked for billionaires that are not buttholes and instead you went with "there are worse people there!". Yes, there are. But they are but the existence of worse people certainly doesn't make Trump a pro-worker person. His policies may have benefited the industrial worker, but as I said, he has swindled his workers every chance he got and him having so many lawsuits against him, even decades before he became PotUS prove it.

    2. I know. Trump is no better than any of them when it comes to Nepotism. He clearly doesn't judge people by how energetic they are or how good results they bring.

    3. I am fully aware what Dictator meant in the Roman era, thus I added despotic dictator. And Roman Republic dictators had to step down after 6 months. JC was a dictator in the modern sense too. The point I am trying to make here is that noooope there were more reasons than corruption for Republicans (in the sense of being pro-Republic) Roman politicians, scholars and people to hate Caesar.
    It had to do with corruption for many and the want to hold on to power and privileges, but for many it also had to do with Republicanism and their want to protect the Republic from a dictator.

    4. Again, the point was that there were a great many reasons to hate Octavian than his want to reform the Republic and save Rome. And being despotic and killing the Republic was not the sole legitimate reason either. He was also murdering people for his own benefit, not just for Rome's benefit.


    To surmise: .
    1. That there are worse people doesn't mean he's pro-workers. The many lawsuits (say in the 90s) prove he's not their friend.
    2. Continuing the tradition of putting his own family to positions they're not qualified for makes him anti-Worker.
    3. & 4. Caesar and Octavian went for the people when it was beneficial for their career not out of love of the common worker. Same with Trump - but they were more successful.
    Last edited by alhoon; September 08, 2020 at 07:35 PM.
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  14. #1034
    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Now you're just flat out lying. If you didn't care you wouldn't have piped up like you did in post #988. Now answer the question: a,b, or C?

    And yes, when I make a mistake I admit it, even if it's embarrassing. Just check the climate thread if you don't believe me. You're the one who can't admit their mistake. If you could you would answer the question.
    Being incorrect and being deceptive are very different, so calling it lying is impolite.

    I cornered you until you answered a difficult question, so I guess it's only fair. At first blush: B. It's presenting both people there who deny it happened, and other people who say it wouldn't be out of character. A and C are kind of are only reporting what they want said, but B is including a defense of a side they don't necessarily agree with.

    I still think you made an obvious mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Nepotism has always been part of US politics, so your accusation makes no sense. In fact, Trump is the least nepotistic of all the recent president, given how uninvolved his wife is compared to say that of Obama, Bush sr., Clinton or Reagan.
    What, and that's supposed to be a good thing?

    Maybe... just maybe... restricting nepotism to just your spouse is a bad definition. I bet you can be nepotist with people other than your spouse, like, say, children, or son-in-laws (just as random examples ). If you consider cronyism, which is almost the same thing as nepotism, there's even more possible people to choose from, such as personal friends, or big donors. Just a thought.
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  15. #1035

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Trump wants you too know he's the real victim of the pandemic.

    President Trump on Tuesday lamented that he was "sailing" to reelection prior to the coronavirus pandemic, asking a crowd of supporters in North Carolina whether they thought China allowed the virus to spread "on purpose.""How are we doing with China? We just have the plague. We've had other plagues sent by them. I wonder if they did it on purpose. What do you think?" Trump said in Winston-Salem, amplifying the unproven idea that China intentionally allowed COVID-19 to spread to the rest of the world.
    "I’ve got to tell you, I was sailing to an easy election. This was going to be so easy," Trump continued. "I probably would’ve not been here tonight. I would’ve said, ‘No we don’t have to bother.' Now we have to work against a guy that doesn’t know where he is. I can’t believe it."
    Let's see:

    -Permanent loss of agriculture markets before COVID.

    -Manufacturing in a recession before COVID.

    -Record national deficit before COVID.

    -2018 midterms loses before COVID.

    -Impeached for trying to shake down the Ukrainian president for dirt on Biden before COVID.

  16. #1036

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    Being incorrect and being deceptive are very different, so calling it lying is impolite.

    I cornered you until you answered a difficult question, so I guess it's only fair. At first blush: B. It's presenting both people there who deny it happened, and other people who say it wouldn't be out of character. A and C are kind of are only reporting what they want said, but B is including a defense of a side they don't necessarily agree with.

    I still think you made an obvious mistake.



    What, and that's supposed to be a good thing?

    Maybe... just maybe... restricting nepotism to just your spouse is a bad definition. I bet you can be nepotist with people other than your spouse, like, say, children, or son-in-laws (just as random examples ). If you consider cronyism, which is almost the same thing as nepotism, there's even more possible people to choose from, such as personal friends, or big donors. Just a thought.
    I think the gist is that you have the choice between two nepotist creeps, so that sort of cancels out each other. However, there are other factors that at least to me make it sound like Trump-Pence is the lesser evil than Biden-Harris (Harris is also a beneficiary of nepotism, BTW).

  17. #1037
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    @Coughdrop: Don`t Forget the Evaporation of any Respect, Influence and Soft Power the USA commanded in prior Years.

  18. #1038
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Trump didn't lose any of those things. Soft power was lost under Clinton. Global respect was lost under Bush jr and Obama made sure to destroy the speck of influence left by the previous clowns.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post

    That's a flaky excuse. Just answer the question.
    What question?
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; September 09, 2020 at 08:58 AM.
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  19. #1039

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    1. OK, tell me one non-butthole Billionaire that got even half the lawsuits Trump got in the 90s. You're mentioning Rothschild and Rockfellers... but then you call them butthole billionaires. According to you Trump is not evil nor he looks down on the blue collar working man. I asked for billionaires that are not buttholes and instead you went with "there are worse people there!". Yes, there are. But they are but the existence of worse people certainly doesn't make Trump a pro-worker person. His policies may have benefited the industrial worker, but as I said, he has swindled his workers every chance he got and him having so many lawsuits against him, even decades before he became PotUS prove it.

    2. I know. Trump is no better than any of them when it comes to Nepotism. He clearly doesn't judge people by how energetic they are or how good results they bring.

    3. I am fully aware what Dictator meant in the Roman era, thus I added despotic dictator. And Roman Republic dictators had to step down after 6 months. JC was a dictator in the modern sense too. The point I am trying to make here is that noooope there were more reasons than corruption for Republicans (in the sense of being pro-Republic) Roman politicians, scholars and people to hate Caesar.
    It had to do with corruption for many and the want to hold on to power and privileges, but for many it also had to do with Republicanism and their want to protect the Republic from a dictator.

    4. Again, the point was that there were a great many reasons to hate Octavian than his want to reform the Republic and save Rome. And being despotic and killing the Republic was not the sole legitimate reason either. He was also murdering people for his own benefit, not just for Rome's benefit.


    To surmise: .
    1. That there are worse people doesn't mean he's pro-workers. The many lawsuits (say in the 90s) prove he's not their friend.
    2. Continuing the tradition of putting his own family to positions they're not qualified for makes him anti-Worker.
    3. & 4. Caesar and Octavian went for the people when it was beneficial for their career not out of love of the common worker. Same with Trump - but they were more successful.
    1. To Trump a blue-collar dude with perseverance and energy to make his small business thing grow is a better person then someone like your typical career politician. Hence why Trump would rather sympathize with some blue collar worker rather then with someone like Justin Trudeau or Joe Biden.
    2. Again, I think nepotism is a bad thing, but I don't see how that's relevant in case of US presidents, all of whom are incredibly nepotistic. Its just a Western politician thing.
    3. Despotic or not, Cesar defeating pro-Republic forces was a good thing for Rome.
    4. Indeed, which was typical for his day. His reign resulted with centuries of Pax Romana, something hardly possible had Rome remained a Republic. Hence why Octavian was a great thing to happen to Rome.

  20. #1040
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post



    What question?
    You commented on an article and didn't even have the intellectual curiosity to read it? The question was in post 1018, but you'll have to go back and actually read the article you commented on to make an objective assessment.

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