View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
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  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    34 43.59%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    37 47.44%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    4 5.13%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    3 3.85%
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Thread: USA elections 2020 - 2021

  1. #41

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Biden is a terrible candidate, worse on paper than Trump (although Trumps utter incompetence has come home to roost with the Coronavirus disaster) as a member of a former team, so representing a narrower faction in society than a healthy democracy requites. Attempts to build dynasties or pseudo-dynasties are really bad for democracies, and he amounts to Obama family royalty. This stinks as badly as H Clinton, Bush Jnr and Gore.

    Bush Snr is the exception to the rule, but he wasn't so visibly frail as this cipher.
    The US's experience of C19 has been broadly comparable to that of many other western states (UK, France, Spain, and Italy). The president's alleged "utter incompetence" is little more than a preconceived judgement expressed through a variety of fabricated media narratives (HCQ, racism, state's rights etc.). It is little wonder that with so few of the criticisms of the WH's response being substantive, that the president's C19 response ratings exceed those of the press.

    The reality is that we all have very little choice but to move with developments as they come, be that in terms of medical or economic advice. For that reason, it seems unlikely that a different president would have produced different results. What we're seeing right now in the US is a desperate attempt by the liberal press and liberal activists to politicize the Covid crisis to their advantage for the election. Will it work? Possibly.



  2. #42
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The US's experience of C19 has been broadly comparable to that of many other western states (UK, France, Spain, and Italy). The president's alleged "utter incompetence" is little more than a preconceived judgement expressed through a variety of fabricated media narratives (HCQ, racism, state's rights etc.). It is little wonder that with so few of the criticisms of the WH's response being substantive, that the president's C19 response ratings exceed those of the press.
    No it isn't. Which is the reason USA had such an extreme growth rate of Coronavirus in March, going from 42 cases to 186000 cases in one month, with a mean growth of 31% per day. No other Western country bungled it so badly. Even Italy, that started March with 1700 cases rose to just 106000 by the end of March and now, in the middle of April they still don't have as many cases as USA had by the end of March.

    What USA did better, and this is IMO at least partially because of Trump, is to move quickly to soften the economic repercussions. While EU is still dragging its feet and we have heard little from China or India and Japan announced just a few billions of stimulus (5 Trillion$ Economy), USA is pumping trillions in their economy with more to come. Sure, there will be a 10-20% recession in 2020. But USA will practically say "Meh, that's not too bad." as people will still have food on the table and the world will still be spinning.
    On the other hand, other big economies are lagging behind (EU, China, Japan, India) and this will hit them harder.

    And haters may hate and say Trump and the Republicans did it for the elections, but the fact remains that he did it despite the Democrats trying to pass stuff like green energy agenda in the stimulus.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 15, 2020 at 06:42 AM.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Little Question, can Biden nominate Obama as Running Mate?

  4. #44
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    Little Question, can Biden nominate Obama as Running Mate?
    I am sure he cannot, as if he dies, Obama would go for 3rd term which is illegal.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  5. #45

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    No it isn't. Which is the reason USA had such an extreme growth rate of Coronavirus in March, going from 42 cases to 186000 cases in one month, with a mean growth of 31% per day. No other Western country bungled it so badly. Even Italy, that started March with 1700 cases rose to just 106000 by the end of March and now, in the middle of April they still don't have as many cases as USA had by the end of March.
    If you want to make a realistic comparison, you're going to have to think deeper than that. The US had 75 confirmed cases at the beginning of March. There is no way the number was in fact that small. The initial testing was slow in part because the CDC had bad test kits.

    Spain has had 397 deaths per million population. Belgium has had 383 deaths per million population. Italy has had 348 deaths per million population. France has had 241 deaths per million population. The Netherlands has 183 deaths per million population. I could keep going down the list, but eventually I would get to the US which has had 79 deaths per million population. That's one measure that's less subject to testing frequency issues. I don't actually know how well these other countries handled things relative to the US. Here in Israel, there have been few mistakes in my opinion, the result has been 15 deaths per million population, but then Israel's situation had made it easier for them to react. For example, they started with tightly controlled borders whereas Belgium did not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  6. #46

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    The 22nd amendment to the Constitution states —

    No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.
    The 12th amendment stipulates —

    … But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
    While this seems to rule out the possibility of Mr. Obama serving as Mr. Biden's Vice-President, Snopes rates the claim —
    "Former President Barack Obama could run for, and serve as, Vice President of the United States."
    … as unproven.
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fo...ice-president/
    … and suggests it can only be definitively resolved by the Judiciary.

    As Mr. Biden has already committed to nominating a female as his running mate, the question is moot unless the Obama under consideration is Michelle Obama.

    Incidentally, Senator Elizabeth Warren has given her endorsement to Mr. Biden today.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN21X1V0

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  7. #47

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Biden is a terrible candidate, worse on paper than Trump (although Trumps utter incompetence has come home to roost with the Coronavirus disaster) as a member of a former team, so representing a narrower faction in society than a healthy democracy requites. Attempts to build dynasties or pseudo-dynasties are really bad for democracies, and he amounts to Obama family royalty. This stinks as badly as H Clinton, Bush Jnr and Gore.

    Bush Snr is the exception to the rule, but he wasn't so visibly frail as this cipher.
    indeed, Trump proved his competence when he ignored Democrats who called for people to go on mass events during initial stages of the outbreak. This will be brought up throughout election cycle, burying Dems even further in areas that were hit hardest by it.
    Bush Sr. wasn't really known for much other then war crimes that CIA committed under his leadership, as well as also being rather rapey.
    I mean the fact that never-Trumpers can't pick a hero for themselves who wasn't mass-murdering people somewhere or wasn't a rapist kinda speaks for itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    It'll be Kamala Harris. Leftists and liberals continue to prioritize identity politics over substance.
    Ah yes, Kamala "I smoked weed in college, but had no problem sending countless young men to jail for doing same thing" Harris. I mean at that rate just pick Tulsi and bash Trump for confronting Iran. It would contradict his own former administration's warhawk "when in doubt drone it" policies, but at least he'd be trying.

  8. #48

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    No it isn't. Which is the reason USA had such an extreme growth rate of Coronavirus in March, going from 42 cases to 186000 cases in one month, with a mean growth of 31% per day. No other Western country bungled it so badly. Even Italy, that started March with 1700 cases rose to just 106000 by the end of March and now, in the middle of April they still don't have as many cases as USA had by the end of March.
    Sumskilz has already made my point for me. Of course Italy doesn't have as many known cases as the US: it's population is six times smaller. If the curve in the US continues to flatten, its C19 deaths per capita are likely to be comparable to countries like the UK, France and Spain.



  9. #49
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    If you want to make a realistic comparison, you're going to have to think deeper than that. The US had 75 confirmed cases at the beginning of March. There is no way the number was in fact that small. The initial testing was slow in part because the CDC had bad test kits.

    Spain has had 397 deaths per million population. Belgium has had 383 deaths per million population. Italy has had 348 deaths per million population. France has had 241 deaths per million population. The Netherlands has 183 deaths per million population. I could keep going down the list, but eventually I would get to the US which has had 79 deaths per million population. That's one measure that's less subject to testing frequency issues. I don't actually know how well these other countries handled things relative to the US. Here in Israel, there have been few mistakes in my opinion, the result has been 15 deaths per million population, but then Israel's situation had made it easier for them to react. For example, they started with tightly controlled borders whereas Belgium did not.
    Not really buddy. Deaths go by number of outbreaks, not by the size of countries. If we go by deaths per million, tiny countries like Monaco go first and giants like China and India scrap the bottom.
    I.e. "deaths per million" is not a good sign.

    Growth rate is better. You could use the growth rate of deaths if you prefer, but it gives a very similar image.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Sumskilz has already made my point for me. Of course Italy doesn't have as many known cases as the US: it's population is six times smaller. If the curve in the US continues to flatten, its C19 deaths per capita are likely to be comparable to countries like the UK, France and Spain.
    Nope, that's not the reason. India that has 5 times the population than USA doesn't have five times the cases. Nigeria that has half the population of USA doesn't have half the cases.

    Number of Tests that Sumkiz suggested is a reason but that... also means Trump failed there since it was his job to have those tests rolling out and he delayed.
    And as I said to Sumkiz, the death growth would be a better indicator but it gives a similar picture.

    What Trump did well (and the Republicans) was to handle the economic impact of the virus while the other 4 biggest economies are STILL dragging their feet.

    @Cope, @Sumkiz:
    Example: USA went from 2 deaths to 3600 deaths in March. That's x1800 increase. Italy went from 34 deaths to 12500 deaths. That's just x370 increase. Their increase in deaths per capita was five times less than the increase in deaths per capita in the USA.

    And I think this will be a very important issues on the elections.
    Would Biden have handled it better? I think so.
    Would Biden have handled it well? I don't think so.

    About the economic efforts to mitigate the damage, would Biden have handled it better? Lol, hell no.
    Would Biden have handled it Well? I don't think so. While Trump did.

    Quote Originally Posted by skh1 View Post
    As Mr. Biden has already committed to nominating a female as his running mate, the question is moot unless the Obama under consideration is Michelle Obama.

    Incidentally, Senator Elizabeth Warren has given her endorsement to Mr. Biden today.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN21X1V0
    Michelle Obama CAN run for VP but I doubt she will be interested. If she was, she would be already the Democratic Nominee.

    I find it hilarious that Warren gave her endorsement to Biden after Sanders did. It makes it seem that she didn't endorse either Biden or Sanders simply because she didn't like either, not because she was weighting her future and options.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 15, 2020 at 04:23 PM.
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  10. #50

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Nope, that's not the reason. India that has 5 times the population than USA doesn't have five times the cases. Nigeria that has half the population of USA doesn't have half the cases.

    Number of Tests that Sumkiz suggested is a reason but that... also means Trump failed there since it was his job to have those tests rolling out and he delayed.
    And as I said to Sumkiz, the death growth would be a better indicator but it gives a similar picture.
    I specifically said that the US's difficulties were comparable to many other western democratic nations, not that it had fewer cases than India. As has been pointed out to you, the Covid death rate is higher in countries like the UK, France and Spain than it is in the US. The reasons why certain countries in Africa and Asia (which are far poorer and less organized than western nations) have suffered less has very little to do with the responses from health authorities or politicians; it's because the conditions in those places (climate, avg. age, genetic resistance, volume of travel/migration, pop density etc.) are more favourable to managing the situation.



  11. #51
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I am sure he cannot, as if he dies, Obama would go for 3rd term which is illegal.
    I thought it was just a ten year maximum, so if say you were the vp of a president that died you could still run for your two terms. So max obama could be president for 2 years again.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Cope what are you basing your claim about climate, population density and genetics on?
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  13. #53

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Michelle Obama CAN run for VP but I doubt she will be interested. If she was, she would be already the Democratic Nominee.

    I find it hilarious that Warren gave her endorsement to Biden after Sanders did. It makes it seem that she didn't endorse either Biden or Sanders simply because she didn't like either, not because she was weighting her future and options.
    First ladies are little more then glorified housewives. I mean there are people that would actually vote for anything that breathes and is a Democrat/Republican. But general election is a battle for moderates and undecideds, and while the current presidential candidate is, well, Biden, they need someone for VP who would actually appeal to someone other then hardcore Democrat supporters.

  14. #54

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Cope what are you basing your claim about climate, population density and genetics on?
    >One line question.

    1. Influenza is known to be more deadly in colder conditions with drier air. It is suspected that C19 follows a similar pattern. This is one of the supposed reasons that India (which has a hotter, more humid climate) than Europe or North America has proven (so far) to be less susceptible to the disease.

    2. People living in densely populated areas like NY or London are more susceptible to C19 because the volume of close human interactions is greater. Transmission of the virus from one person to another is therefore easier.

    3. Though there isn't really any conclusive data on this yet, it is almost inevitable that some population groups will be more resistant to the virus than others.

    Theories about India.
    Last edited by Cope; April 15, 2020 at 05:01 PM.



  15. #55

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Nope, that's not the reason. India that has 5 times the population than USA doesn't have five times the cases. Nigeria that has half the population of USA doesn't have half the cases.
    In general, the disease spread into poorer countries at a much slower rate, one reason is obviously related to rates of international travel. There may very well be others already mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Example: USA went from 2 deaths to 3600 deaths in March. That's x1800 increase. Italy went from 34 deaths to 12500 deaths. That's just x370 increase. Their increase in deaths per capita was five times less than the increase in deaths per capita in the USA.
    You don't know from when the US had its first case. Genetically, the evidence points to earlier than Italy, yet it was undetected. The US has seven different genetically distinct strains of COVID-19. Italy has only one, meaning Italy's outbreak could have spread from as little as one source, whereas the disease entered into the US from at least seven sources. There is no way to make an apples to apples comparison, but it is clear that Italy has had more than four times as many deaths per capita than the US, this is true for several other European countries. Most countries would have been better off closing their borders earlier. Most would have done better if they were better prepared to implement high volume testing.

    I don't know what role if any Trump played in the faulty test issue. I am fairly certain at least that designing PCR tests is not within his area of expertise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  16. #56
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    I specifically said that the US's difficulties were comparable to many other western democratic nations.
    And that's false, since USA's growth of cases per capita was insanely higher than any other Western Democratic nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    As has been pointed out to you, the Covid death rate is higher in countries like the UK, France and Spain than it is in the US.
    The Death Rate? You mean how many hospitalized patients die, or how many people per capita die? The death rate (people that contact the virus and die) is indeed lower in the USA, significantly so. The growth of deaths per capita though, is also higher although now that the USA implemented finally the quarantines that other nations used by mid-March, you see a significant drop in the spread of the virus.

    In the end, Trump let the virus run amok for 2-3 weeks more than other states. Those 2-3 weeks will cost the USA tens of thousands of cases and thousands of dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The reasons why certain countries in Africa and Asia (which are far poorer and less organized than western nations) have suffered less has very little to do with the responses from health authorities or politicians; it's because the conditions in those places (climate, avg. age, genetic resistance, volume of travel/migration, pop density etc.) are more favourable to managing the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Cope what are you basing your claim about climate, population density and genetics on?
    I agree with Cope on that. I would say... common sense+

    Do you really think Nigeria acted in a better and more organized fashion than USA? I don't.
    I also don't think they can actually count the deaths and cases properly as they don't have enough health professionals. There are probably people dying that nobody counts yet.

    Now, the "+" part: We've been told that higher ambient temperatures help to limit the life of the virus on surfaces etc. The immunity system of these people that have not been comfortably fighting infections with antibiotics since infancy is also better trained and more tested. Population density is of course a huge factor. If your town has very limited contact with other regions, you have limited chance to get infected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    First ladies are little more then glorified housewives. I mean there are people that would actually vote for anything that breathes and is a Democrat/Republican. But general election is a battle for moderates and undecideds, and while the current presidential candidate is, well, Biden, they need someone for VP who would actually appeal to someone other then hardcore Democrat supporters.
    Yeah, Michelle Obama is x10 more popular than either Trump or Biden. If she was interested in politics and she had rolled out her campaign, she would already be at 3000 delegates. She would have cleaned out Warren's and Biden's base, I doubt they would have even started a campaign, she would have Amy's supporters from the get-go, and she would make a good bite in the base of Sanders.
    All in all, she would be a much stronger candidate for the primaries than anyone on the field.

    As for the General, as I said, she's much more popular than either Trump or Biden.


    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    In general, the disease spread into poorer countries at a much slower rate, one reason is obviously related to rates of international travel. There may very well be others already mentioned.

    You don't know from when the US had its first case. Genetically, the evidence points to earlier than Italy, yet it was undetected. The US has seven different genetically distinct strains of COVID-19. Italy has only one, meaning Italy's outbreak could have spread from as little as one source, whereas the disease entered into the US from at least seven sources. There is no way to make an apples to apples comparison, but it is clear that Italy has had more than four times as many deaths per capita than the US, this is true for several other European countries. Most countries would have been better off closing their borders earlier. Most would have done better if they were better prepared to implement high volume testing.

    I don't know what role if any Trump played in the faulty test issue. I am fairly certain at least that designing PCR tests is not within his area of expertise.
    You make some good points. Indeed, travel had a lot to do with the spread of the Virus. Exactly as you said, USA got the virus from at least 7 different cases, and I would bet it was more. Part of that is obviously ... tied to size.
    But part of the reason is that Trump didn't ban travel to Europe early on. I fully concede though that the "Size matters" has to do with ... economic activity and travel. Places like San Marino I mentioned earlier are tourist spots. Travel. Size of a country (geographically, in economic terms and in population) does affect the number of infected people that will come and start those outbreaks that I refer to.
    Still, this could have been better if Trump had banned travel from Europe earlier and if Trump had used the powers of his office to roll out tests faster and more effectively. And last but not least: If Trump has used his all-powerful influence to get his loyalist governors act on the virus. Had Trump said from the beginning "This is serious, we will defeat the Kung Flu, a conspiracy by the Chinese and obviously the buttholes of Iran (!?!) and Hillary Clinton." the governors proclaiming they are ready to die for the economy would be implementing Quarantines and arm-twisting companies to implement the costly cutdowns and safety measures.


    Designing PCR tests is not in Trump's expertise, so he shouldn't have proclaimed it is, nor that everything is ready and the tests are available for everyone when they weren't and should have broken the knees of the chair-centaurs of FDA that delayed the testing with stupid rules and prohibitions.
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  17. #57

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post

    Yeah, Michelle Obama is x10 more popular than either Trump or Biden. If she was interested in politics and she had rolled out her campaign, she would already be at 3000 delegates. She would have cleaned out Warren's and Biden's base, I doubt they would have even started a campaign, she would have Amy's supporters from the get-go, and she would make a good bite in the base of Sanders.
    All in all, she would be a much stronger candidate for the primaries than anyone on the field.
    Michelle Obama is popular, but her popularity is that of tabloid celebrities, Twitch streamers, mumble rappers, etc. That doesn't mean they typically would do well in elections. Trump was an outsider, but at least he had experience of being a billionaire business tycoon to prove his competence. Hillary, in all fairness, had experience holding government office as well.

    All Michelle did, on the other hand, was just being wife of a guy who got elected as POTUS. She never operated a significant business or held a real political office. All of her "projects" during Obama's presidency were little more then posturing for media that favored the current administration.

    Like I said, hardcore Democrats would vote for Michelle Obama. Hardcore Republicans would vote for Barbara Bush. But in general elections, it would be a disaster for either parties.

  18. #58

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    In something of an innovation, Ms. Stacey Abrams is actively seeking the Democratic nomination for the Vice-Presidency of the United States —

    Former Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams says she would be "honored" to be chosen as former Vice President Joe Biden's running mate.
    "I would be an excellent running mate," Abrams told Elle magazine in an interview published Wednesday.
    "I have the capacity to attract voters by motivating typically ignored communities," Abrams said. "I have a strong history of executive and management experience in the private, public, and nonprofit sectors. I've spent 25 years in independent study of foreign policy. I am ready to help advance an agenda of restoring America's place in the world. If I am selected, I am prepared and excited to serve."
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/polit...ent-joe-biden/

    The article ends with an indication of the Biden campaign's present thinking on the question of the vice-presidential pick —

    In addition to Abrams, Biden on the campaign trail has expressed openness to choosing one of his former 2020 rivals, including Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar, California Sen. Kamala Harris and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren. All three have endorsed Biden for president.
    Biden has also mentioned New Hampshire Sen. Maggie Hassan, New Hampshire Sen. Jeanne Shaheen and former acting Attorney General Sally Yates in conversations about a potential vice presidential pick.
    The quote cited supra may be found in this, shall we say, highly sympathetic article in Elle magazine —
    https://www.elle.com/culture/career-...ice-president/


    Some may recall Leader Abrams for her unsuccessful bid to be elected as the first women of color as governor of Georgia in 2018. She lost by a slim margin to Republican Stacey Evans who, as Georgia Secretary of State, was responsible for overseeing the self-same election. She was reluctant to concede the race due to alleged irregularities in the tabulation of the vote but eventually did so. It appears that Leader Abrams's dissatisfaction remains unallayed. She continues working toward her concern for election reform from her own website —
    https://fairfight.com/

    If it would be of interest, a précis of her interesting life and estimable career may be perused here —
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacey_Abrams
    Last edited by skh1; April 16, 2020 at 12:16 AM. Reason: Small adjustments because I obviously can't get it right the first time

    "You know… the thing" - President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., vaguely alluding to the Declaration of Independence


  19. #59

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    And that's false, since USA's growth of cases per capita was insanely higher than any other Western Democratic nation.
    The growth speed is irrelevant if the death rate remains comparable. What people care about is how many people suffer and/or perish from C19, not how fast it spreads.

    The Death Rate? You mean how many hospitalized patients die, or how many people per capita die? The death rate (people that contact the virus and die) is indeed lower in the USA, significantly so. The growth of deaths per capita though, is also higher although now that the USA implemented finally the quarantines that other nations used by mid-March, you see a significant drop in the spread of the virus.

    In the end, Trump let the virus run amok for 2-3 weeks more than other states. Those 2-3 weeks will cost the USA tens of thousands of cases and thousands of dead.
    This is fake news. The European Union and the UK were still twiddling their thumbs when Trump declared a national emergency and closed down the US border with Europe. The liberals even threw a tantrum about it, accusing him of xenophobia and "populism" despite the fact that Italy was on fire with the virus. Then, a few days later, the EU shut down its borders too. Your point about domestic quarantines is irrelevant as they are the responsibility of state governors and legislatures, not the White House. The same is true in Europe, where internal lockdowns are the prerogative of national govts, not the EU. So, like the Dem press, you're trying to blame Trump for decisions which were not his to make. The fact that Cuomo didn't quarantine NY until the 23rd of March, for instance, isn't the president's fault.
    Last edited by Cope; April 16, 2020 at 03:35 AM.



  20. #60

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    This is fake news. The European Union and the UK were still twiddling their thumbs when Trump declared a national emergency and closed down the US border with Europe. The liberals even threw a tantrum about it, accusing him of xenophobia and "populism" despite the fact that Italy was on fire with the virus. Then, a few days later, the EU shut down its borders too. Your point about domestic quarantines is irrelevant as they are the responsibility of state governors and legislatures, not the White House. So, like the Dem press, you're trying to blame Trump for decisions which were not his to make. The fact that Cuomo didn't quarantine NY until the 23rd of March, for instance, isn't the president's fault.
    I can’t see how this line of attack is going to work out for the Dems. By just about every measure, the hardest hit states are all blue states, with the exception of Louisiana, but even in that case, the governor is a Dem. Probably that’s all due to population density and connectedness as well (we know why in Louisiana). In my opinion, pretty much everyone in government was oblivious early on. Maybe voters won’t care, but it seems to me that the liberal media are laying the foundation for arguments that can be used against their own candidates.

    I don’t give anyone a free pass, but the failure was really not at the highest levels in any government, it was a failure of the experts to make the right case strong enough publicly. Plenty were arguing what turned out to be the wrong case, which the press seemed to amplify for whatever reason. I could see what was likely coming based on the early preprints regarding the virus’s properties, but even my one anthropology course on infectious diseases back in the day makes me more qualified on the topic than the vast majority of elected officials. That said, there was no professional consequence for me speaking up and being wrong, and even then, I toned down my predictions, not wanting to come across as a crazy alarmist.

    Governments rarely are prepared for major disasters before they happen, unless something similar has happened within recent memory. The majority of the handful of countries that were actually on top the situation were those that were hit by SARS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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