View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
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  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    34 43.59%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    37 47.44%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    4 5.13%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    3 3.85%

Thread: USA elections 2020 - 2021

  1. #3201
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    In the last week we have had:


    -Multiple congressional Republicans say they will contest the vote on Wednesday as an idiotic delaying action.

    -Congressional Republicans file and lose a lawsuit to make Pence overturn the results of the election. Dismissed on standing by a Trump appointed judge (they should be used to this by now)

    -Trump's campaign lawyer claim Pence needs to be executed for treason (because the lawsuit failed and Pence won't comply regardless).

    -Trump on tape trying to threaten elected officials into overturning the results in their states. Illegal at both a state and federal level.


    And nothing but crickets on the right about something that they would LITERALLY be up in arms about if Democrats had pulled the same stunt. It is pathetic how low Republicans have stooped to uphold and appease the Trump cult.

    I genuinely hope Biden's DOJ is going to go all out on these people. There is no more room for unity when it is clear they are this desperate to go against the will of the people, and if the Republicans actually held both chambers I 100% believe they would overturn the results.

    If there is any illegality, blackmail, or anything that compromises the government in an illegal or immoral fashion it needs to be uprooted, prosecuted, and imprisoned. And they need to start with the recording that was released today of the highest elected official in the land being a whiny, desperate crybaby.

    Trumpism is an absolute malignant cancer in this country, and we are going to need aggressive treatment if we expect this country to survive.
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  2. #3202
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Isn' t this obvious try of Trump to manipulate the vote counting in Georgia a crime?
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  3. #3203

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Trump's literally on tape doing attempted fraud. The Georgia Secretary of State doesn't bite.

    Well I mean, speaking of history....though.

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  4. #3204
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Trump's literally on tape doing attempted fraud. The Georgia Secretary of State doesn't bite.

    Well I mean, speaking of history....though.

    Carl Bernstein believes this is far worse than Watergate in his opinion.

    But then again today's conservatives believe that USA vs Nixon was improperly decided so they would probably handwave Nixon's crimes too. Those tapes changed minds in 1970s, but today I don't even think a tape of Trump getting handsy which children would change minds about Surrogate Cult Daddy at this point.

    It truly is a pathetic turn from a party I used to support. Their spinelessness and indifference towards Mango Mussolini made me embarrassed to share a party with such idiocy.
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  5. #3205
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Those tapes changed minds in 1970s, but today I don't even think a tape of Trump getting handsy which children would change minds about Surrogate Cult Daddy at this point.
    They would probably believe, that Hillary faked these tapes to distract from Pizzagate.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; January 03, 2021 at 07:19 PM.
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  6. #3206
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    And now 10 former Defense Secretaries have written an OP-Ed basically saying that the election is over and it is time to move on.

    No really, conservatives. Enough is ing enough. You are embarrassing the country with your antics and making us look weak worldwide.

    How ing dare current Republicans be so irrational that you make Cheney and Rumsfeld look sane by comparison.

    Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Mark Esper, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, James Mattis, Leon Panetta, William Perry and Donald Rumsfeld are the 10 living former U.S. secretaries of defense.

    As former secretaries of defense, we hold a common view of the solemn obligations of the U.S. armed forces and the Defense Department. Each of us swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We did not swear it to an individual or a party.


    American elections and the peaceful transfers of power that result are hallmarks of our democracy. With one singular and tragic exception that cost the lives of more Americans than all of our other wars combined, the United States has had an unbroken record of such transitions since 1789, including in times of partisan strife, war, epidemics and economic depression. This year should be no exception.


    Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived.


    As senior Defense Department leaders have noted, “there’s no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of a U.S. election.” Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic.


    Transitions, which all of us have experienced, are a crucial part of the successful transfer of power. They often occur at times of international uncertainty about U.S. national security policy and posture. They can be a moment when the nation is vulnerable to actions by adversaries seeking to take advantage of the situation.


    Given these factors, particularly at a time when U.S. forces are engaged in active operations around the world, it is all the more imperative that the transition at the Defense Department be carried out fully, cooperatively and transparently. Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.


    We call upon them, in the strongest terms, to do as so many generations of Americans have done before them. This final action is in keeping with the highest traditions and professionalism of the U.S. armed forces, and the history of democratic transition in our great country.
    But never fear, I'm sure the top conservative minds of this forum will explain how they and all the other GOP leadership calling for this to end are actually RINOs for not standing up for Trump.
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  7. #3207
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Why would any Republican politician who has any ambition to capture the 70 odd million votes that Trump received in the election ever give up? That isn't logical. They'll keep going irrespective of what any cadre of political figures who aren't seeking re-election say so long as it polls well.
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  8. #3208
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Why would any Republican politician who has any ambition to capture the 70 odd million votes that Trump received in the election ever give up? That isn't logical. They'll keep going irrespective of what any cadre of political figures who aren't seeking re-election say so long as it polls well.
    Fair point, and it's not like they don't have legions of ignorant and uninformed voters that will believe anything they are given, regardless of factual information that they have at their fingertips. With how objectively and unintelligent she is, Loeffler even making it to the runoffs despite being the smug elitist type that conservatives claim to hate is proof enough of that. Then there is that bonehead Tuberville that managed to get into the Senate despite not knowing a goddamn thing about how the government works...but stick an "R" next to his name and he is golden for the masses.

    But we are long past the whole "Party of the Constitution/Lincoln". The GOP is basically the new Confederacy at this point.
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  9. #3209
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Why would any Republican politician who has any ambition to capture the 70 odd million votes that Trump received in the election ever give up?
    Those votes only matter in a democracy though. The times of hedging bets between being a democratically elected official and at the same time benefiting from Trumpism may be coming to an end. Trump is halfway across the Rubicon. His focus is on staying in power and to hell with the long term consequences for democracy. The point is fast approaching where elected Republican politicians will have to decide whether to cross the Rubicon with him. On the other side lies a de facto single party 'democracy', Putin style.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  10. #3210

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    Those votes only matter in a democracy though. The times of hedging bets between being a democratically elected official and at the same time benefiting from Trumpism may be coming to an end. Trump is halfway across the Rubicon. His focus is on staying in power and to hell with the long term consequences for democracy. The point is fast approaching where elected Republican politicians will have to decide whether to cross the Rubicon with him. On the other side lies a de facto single party 'democracy', Putin style.
    I have no doubt that they will do so in an instant if they ever get all three chambers again, as TheBlackKnight said. Republicans at all levels of society look at Russia with envy and want to replicate it here.

    Republican politicians like that Russia is a fascist dictatorship where any serious opposition is jailed or murdered, journalists who don't say what the oligarchs want are jailed are murdered, dissidents are shunted off to forced labor camps, and laws simply don't apply to the rich and well-connected. They love that pollution laws are lax enough that Russian corporations can pour whatever toxic wastes they create directly into the water supply to save a few rubles. They especially love that corruption has been thoroughly ingrained in Russian government and society, allowing Putin and his cronies to funnel all of the nation's wealth to themselves while leaving the little people with barely enough to survive on.

    Republican voters meanwhile love that Russia has a state church and is a majority white country, gays are openly beaten and murdered, Muslims are persecuted, non-whites are forced into ghettos, and domestic violence against women and children is seen as normal and none of the state's business.

    In short, Russia is everything Republicans have ever wanted the United States to be. That's one reason they are fighting so hard to install a fascist dictatorship, so they can remake the US along the lines of Russia.

  11. #3211

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    But... but... Hillary's emails!!!

  12. #3212
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Well. Thing is. Trump managed to sell himself as a businessman president. Which, while that is just damn wrong because the president has to manage an economy....

    Trump failed. Because the President doesn't manage the fewer variables of the idea of a "business". He has to manage the hilariously many variables of an economy not to mention everything else. And once 2020 started happening, Trump started failing.

    Trump is living proof that the idea of a businessman president is a crappy idea. Because a President has to manage more than a business for America. And that's a lot of crap.

    To be fair anybody would have failed in the face of COVID and the riots. Every economy on earth has been taken by surprise, not just the US.
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  13. #3213

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    To be fair anybody would have failed in the face of COVID and the riots. Every economy on earth has been taken by surprise, not just the US.
    You mean the racial riots triggered by Trump's refusal to address the perfectly legitimate concerns of African-Americans, or at the very least try to find the middle ground? And the spirraling death toll triggered by Trump's failure to react to the crisis and attempts to play it down?

    Yeah, he didn't do well...

  14. #3214

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    But... but... Hillary's emails!!!
    That's so 2019. Now, its all about Hunter's laptop. I never imagined the GOP would sink this low but they are just would-be authoritarians at this point. It would be nice if Trump and his enablers all rot in jail as they deserve but he'll cut some deal probably.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    To be fair anybody would have failed in the face of COVID and the riots. Every economy on earth has been taken by surprise, not just the US.
    Trump's response to the virus has been disastrous and cost tens of thousands (or more) lives by him claiming hoax, not organizing a nationwide response, feeding the conspiracy theorists, and Kushner's admitted plan to let it go and try to blame all the bad results on the governors. It's hard to imagine how an administration could have handled 2020 worse than Trump admin handled it.
    Last edited by chilon; January 04, 2021 at 02:43 PM.
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  15. #3215
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    So pulling back a little, I think Trump is just the front end of the Pentecostal/Oil alliance resisting the takeover of government by Big Tech. I guess there's a minimal parallel to be drawn with the clash between the Capitalist and Slave-owner classes in the mid-19th century that led to the rotten slave owner's revolt.

    I guess Slavery had to end and the selfish rape-addicted plantation owners were prepared to destroy the Union before they'd give up raping slaves but it was just too disgusting to go on and also muh capitalist profits. Now the big polluters time seems to have come with a Green New Deal/some other clean up looking more and more urgent, and they seem to be willing to crash the Union just for the chance of a few more years of polluting.

    I think they lack the numbers and the Techies have rallied after the online world was manipulated in Trump's favour in 2016 (and the Zucc grilled and humiliated).

    If the oil crooks (Oiligarchs if you will) are running Russia and take over the US it will be up to China to fly the flag for the Techies (Amazarchs? Microsarchs? Teslarchs? or iOligarchs...nah forget it). More likely China will make the phones for the rulers of the US, the President will enforce their will and things will settle down.
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  16. #3216

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    There is no legal, legislative or procedural mechanism available for Trump to remain in office. Call it luck, call it American institutional norms, call it the residual strength of 230 years of constitutional republican government that is the only one the US has ever had barring the Articles of Confederation. The military has made it clear they’re not playing the coup game either, and there would be no avenue for them to do so even if they were so inclined. It’s not like the US liberalized after decades or centuries of autocracy. There is no authoritarian option to fall back into. Of course Trump’s final grift puts Republicans in a politically embarrassing situation and gives the Democrats their “see we always told you Republicans are fascists” opportunity. The reality is it’s all cynical noise, just like the summer of “fiery but peaceful protests.” The GOP has every incentive to play Trump’s (their constituents’) games and not many to take the high road just so Democrats will say nice things about them. Democrats may get their one party Congress tomorrow, or they may not. Here’s hoping they don’t.
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  17. #3217
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Yeah, the drama is over. Only one guy doesn't get it yet. I'm eagerly awaiting the wave of legal prosecution awaiting Trump. He will be in SO much trouble ahahaha. This will be a feast for everyone: first the lawyer-hyenas, then the press-vultures, then the sadism of the general public. Yeah that's right. Donny boy gonna sell all his golf playgrounds. Oh boy, there is not enough orange makeup to cover all those furrows of shame on his grief ridden face. Maybe that's why his eyes are always left out: tears.

  18. #3218
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    In the last week we have had:


    -Multiple congressional Republicans say they will contest the vote on Wednesday as an idiotic delaying action.

    -Congressional Republicans file and lose a lawsuit to make Pence overturn the results of the election. Dismissed on standing by a Trump appointed judge (they should be used to this by now)

    -Trump's campaign lawyer claim Pence needs to be executed for treason (because the lawsuit failed and Pence won't comply regardless).

    -Trump on tape trying to threaten elected officials into overturning the results in their states. Illegal at both a state and federal level.


    And nothing but crickets on the right about something that they would LITERALLY be up in arms about if Democrats had pulled the same stunt. It is pathetic how low Republicans have stooped to uphold and appease the Trump cult.

    I genuinely hope Biden's DOJ is going to go all out on these people. There is no more room for unity when it is clear they are this desperate to go against the will of the people, and if the Republicans actually held both chambers I 100% believe they would overturn the results.

    If there is any illegality, blackmail, or anything that compromises the government in an illegal or immoral fashion it needs to be uprooted, prosecuted, and imprisoned. And they need to start with the recording that was released today of the highest elected official in the land being a whiny, desperate crybaby.

    Trumpism is an absolute malignant cancer in this country, and we are going to need aggressive treatment if we expect this country to survive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Isn' t this obvious try of Trump to manipulate the vote counting in Georgia a crime?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Trump's literally on tape doing attempted fraud. The Georgia Secretary of State doesn't bite.

    Well I mean, speaking of history....though.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    Carl Bernstein believes this is far worse than Watergate in his opinion.

    But then again today's conservatives believe that USA vs Nixon was improperly decided so they would probably handwave Nixon's crimes too. Those tapes changed minds in 1970s, but today I don't even think a tape of Trump getting handsy which children would change minds about Surrogate Cult Daddy at this point.

    It truly is a pathetic turn from a party I used to support. Their spinelessness and indifference towards Mango Mussolini made me embarrassed to share a party with such idiocy.
    This is just another example of the left-wing media telling their Bots how to think, what to think, and when to think it.

    In other words, it is fake news.

    I heard the tape in its entirety. Trump's lawyers were present. There is nothing illegal or incriminating about it. Here's one take on it that puts it mildly, to say the least:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog...ensperger.html

    The simple truth is that Raps is a man in trouble and if his lawyer was involved in passing the call to the WaPo he is in trouble too.

    Those guys were saying that all the affidavits filed the first week in November had no supporting evidence. Then four weeks later the video was released because of a lawsuit. The video proved what the affidavits were claiming.

  19. #3219
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Oh good! More right-wing spittle from the American Stinker.

    What? Nothing from The Conservative Treehouse today? Nothing against the Stinker, but TCT is the only place I can trust now.

    I can assert anything, it doesn't mean it is factual when I say it. Nor would it be okay for me to commit a crime based on an assertion I have.

    Example:
    I can assert that my neighbor is a sex offender who is committing the act right now. It does not mean I get to break down his door and assault him to make him stop without facing consequences if I am wrong.

    Raf is a ing Trump supporter. If they could find the evidence, don't you think they would have? Same with Kemp, and everyone else who has examined the allegations.

    Or is he another RINO? If yes, just say so, so we can discount your...er...assertions some more.

    Do it BW...say another Republican is a RINO because they won't do what Cult Leader says.

    You also act like people never commit or even confess to criminal activity in front of their lawyers. Talk with any defense attorney and they will certainly give you stories of some genuinely stupid things their clients have confessed to.

    In any case, here's an actual article discussing the matter. Granted it's based on a lot of social media chatter but it's still a better read than the sources BW tends to use.

    Props to you for listening to the full video. I could only hear snippets of it and decided to read the transcript instead. Every time I hear that childish, putrid, idiotic, fascist more speak it feels like a sledgehammer being slammed against my brain, but I guess that's not a problem for some people if they are used to and enjoy the pain.

    I did hear that one remarkable moment at 51:45 where you hear Trump himself. That was definitely worth tuning in for.

    ----------------------------

    Edit: Actually forget all of the above, I just want BW to answer one question.

    If we had audio of Clinton or Obama saying the exact same things (you know, in the language that actual adults speak), what would your thoughts be?
    Last edited by TheDarkKnight; January 04, 2021 at 04:38 PM.
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  20. #3220
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Do you realise that this author is basically chastising the media for not taking Trump and co at their word that he won Georgia? It would be truly insane for any respectable media outlet to go along with that.
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