View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
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  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    34 43.59%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    37 47.44%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    4 5.13%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    3 3.85%
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Thread: USA elections 2020 - 2021

  1. #3901
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    It sounds like you are upset about Trump cultists being labeled as deranged more than anything.

    You cannot tell me that the kind of behavior you see from the supposed "adults" and the "law and order" types as anything but deranged.

    If you think it's perfectly normal for grown adults to drape themselves in American/Trump/Blue Lives Matter/Gadsden flags like capes, wave Trump "Rambo" or "Rocky" signs and flags, walk around in Trump face onesies or other pieces of clothing, participate in Trump truck and boat parades, attend mass rallies in the middle of a pandemic and create superspreader events, make videos and pray to Trump on social media, carving Trump into their corn fields, participate in federal crimes to overturn an election, and any of the other questionable behavior from "that side of the aisle", then I have some unfortunate news for you.

    de·ranged
    /dēˈrānjd,dəˈrānjd/
    adjective
    mad; insane.

    You might as well stick a picture of Frothy Mouthed Trump Supporter (TM) next to that definition.2

    And the sad thing is I am only mentioning things I can remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there is more that I am forgetting.

    There is absolutely nothing that compares to the above.

    TDS is real, and there are millions of conservatives that need mental health access in order to treat it.
    Last edited by TheDarkKnight; January 20, 2021 at 07:19 PM.
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  2. #3902
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    I don't think someone who has been deliberately fed a narrative by an artificially created and targeted information sphere could be classed as insane. They're just misinformed.

    And by labelling them that, and not negotiating with their world view, you're just another part of the conspiracy that their world view seeks to battle. You represent the other side of the entrenchment line.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  3. #3903

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    It sounds like you are upset about Trump cultists being labeled as deranged more than anything.

    You cannot tell me that the kind of behavior you see from the supposed "adults" and the "law and order" types as anything but deranged.
    I'm not defending the capital hill rioters, I denounce them. Your disingenuous analysis is just more evidence of ideological capture. The corollary assumptions you've made of my politics, without actually engaging in any inquiry thereof, is just more evidence of your evidentiary sloth and ideological capture.

    If you think it's perfectly normal for grown adults to drape themselves in American/Trump/Blue Lives Matter/Gadsden flags like capes, wave Trump "Rambo" or "Rocky" signs and flags, walk around in Trump face onesies or other pieces of clothing, participate in Trump truck and boat parades, attend mass rallies in the middle of a pandemic and create superspreader events, make videos and pray to Trump on social media, carving Trump into their corn fields, participate in federal crimes to overturn an election, and any of the other questionable behavior from "that side of the aisle", then I have some unfortunate news for you.

    de·ranged
    /dēˈrānjd,dəˈrānjd/
    adjective
    mad; insane.
    So far you seem waaaay more obsessed with Trump than I am.

    TDS is real
    Oh yeah, you've proven that. He lives in your head rent free, jeez.

    Yikes! Oh how far some have fa...oh well anyway lol.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; January 20, 2021 at 07:30 PM.

  4. #3904
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Won't even respond about the way Trump cultists act like spoiled children except about the rioters. Either you know and you are embarrassed or you genuinely don't realize how embarrassing it is on the national and international stage. Either way it's not my problem personally.

    I'm not sure why you seem to be lashing out with falsehoods, and I never accused you personally of behaving that way.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Man, not even 12 hours into the new administration and there is already a massive victimhood complex among the conservatives I know in real life. Already thinking that Biden is gonna close the camps on the border and send the conservatives there for their re-education.

    It's almost like they recognize rounding up humans and sending them to camps is bad. How odd

    What a weird fantasy to entertain in their fragile minds though. I guess without Qanon they truly are lost.


    Edit: I nearly forgot to mention, Warnock and Ossof have formally become senators today. Once again, a huge thank you to Georgia for doing the right thing and kicking those two corrupt Republicans out.
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  5. #3905
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    I don't think someone who has been deliberately fed a narrative by an artificially created and targeted information sphere could be classed as insane. They're just misinformed.

    And by labelling them that, and not negotiating with their world view, you're just another part of the conspiracy that their world view seeks to battle. You represent the other side of the entrenchment line.
    This exactly.

    A lot of these people wanted some sort of hope to cling to. Part of the obvious sign that America has been declining probably since Bush took office. The Trump phenomenon was basically a repeat of the Obama phenomenon, just that it manifested itself in a different way. Neither politician was doing anything other than peddling snake oil. In spite of the fact that there were people who agreed with both Obama and/or Trump. But the fact that the political discourse is just about Trump is becoming tiresome.

    Now the Biden supporters are just doing exactly what the Trump supporters were doing in 2016. How demoralized will they be when Biden doesn't do anything? I mean does the DNC even really want to win? Because if they do they would be compelled to actually do something. Much like the GOP which had enough strength in 2016/17 to accomplish something but chose not to.

    So the GOP shouldn't even care about winning, just having the DNC win, serve as the opposition party, and play on a reaction by Republican voters. I think a large part of Biden's victory comes from just anti-Trump hysteria. But if there was like an alternate Trump who stood on his quasi-Democrat positions and wasn't so aggressive, would the voters even care? Hard to say but the lack of self awareness, in hindsight of all that is happening is what has become the most disturbing.

    This isn't even funny anymore, it was funny in 2016/17, stopped being funny in 2018, and then became annoying throughout 2019/20. Maybe a Leftist finds this whole 2020/21 thing funny, but at what point do they stop laughing? Cause this is just becoming really depressing the fact that people can be duped so many times in an endless cycle. It started with Obama promising everything short of literal paradise, continued with Trump's showmanship, now Biden has the stage because he isn't Trump or something.

    Okay what then? Is Biden going to steer the ship back into business as usual or will some demagogue GOP candidate drum up support in a reaction to Biden, which leads to Obama 3.0 reacting to the reaction against a reaction? How many ways can this thing keep escalating before someone loses an eye? When the Leftists and DNC Liberals just accepting this for what it was: Trump accidentally destroying the GOP. I mean the fact that Trump deviated from most GOP positions should have been an obvious indication that the Left was winning. But they either didn't get that memo or sabotaged the whole thing. Now we have the current reaction and I am not seeing any of the winning. Somebody's doing the winning, but who exactly?

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  6. #3906

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    On the day of Biden's inauguration, armed Antifa militants smashed up the Democratic Party's headquarters in Oregon after having tagged the building with messages such as "ACAB" and "f* Biden". The incident is a recurrence of events which occurred in November and during the Floyd protests. Mimicking the words of the FBI director, Joe Biden falsely referred to Antifa as an "idea" during the presidential debates.



  7. #3907
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    But if there was like an alternate Trump who stood on his quasi-Democrat positions and wasn't so aggressive
    What positions are those? I'm talking on things he actually acted on, not wild claims he made in interviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    On the day of Biden's inauguration, armed Antifa militants smashed up the Democratic Party's headquarters in Oregon after having tagged the building with messages such as "ACAB" and "f* Biden". The incident is a recurrence of events which occurred in November and during the Floyd protests. Mimicking the words of the FBI director, Joe Biden falsely referred to Antifa as an "idea" during the presidential debates.
    Oh no not some grafitti and a couple of smashed windows?! When will this horrific and senseless carnage end?!

    Also the fact that some dudes smashed the windows that had previously been graffitied about 2 minutes before clearly points to a well organized group of professional saboteurs funded by a shadowy mastermind.
    Last edited by the_mango55; January 20, 2021 at 09:09 PM.
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  8. #3908

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    This is just one incident in an ongoing series which includes murder. Minimization is a predictable response, albeit one which exposes the cognitive dissonance on the left.



  9. #3909
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post

    A lot of these people wanted some sort of hope to cling to. Part of the obvious sign that America has been declining probably since Bush took office. The Trump phenomenon was basically a repeat of the Obama phenomenon, just that it manifested itself in a different way. Neither politician was doing anything other than peddling snake oil. In spite of the fact that there were people who agreed with both Obama and/or Trump. But the fact that the political discourse is just about Trump is becoming tiresome.
    Not quite where I was heading...

    I disagree about the decline narrative.

    I also disagree that Trump and Obama did nothing. Certainly Trump left office with a restructured tax system, a stacked supreme court and a bunch of other things that non-Trumpy conservatives have appreciated. There has been a definite swing in public policy. That's literally why most in the GOP pinched their noses and went with him. He did a lot of the things he promised he would do. Sure there's an unfinished list that won't get done now. But with 4 more years you can bet you'd have seen a complete wall and no more abortion too. Again, if you want to see why so many voted for him, it wasn't for the Q-Anon theories or the nationalistic rhetoric. It was because he actually did things that they appreciated - outside of the culture wars trash.

    The same occurred during the Obama years. The most obvious thing would be that Obamacare was so thoroughly embedded that even 2 years of a GOP Capitol and Trump couldn't dismantle it completely. Now that Biden is there it looks a lot like better access to health care is set to embed for the long term. Even though it was flawed, and will continue to be, millions of Americans have and will continue to have improved health outcomes thanks to this program.

    Sometimes it is hard to see the long term consequences of what individual presidents do. But the last two presidents have made a massive impact on the social fabric of America.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  10. #3910

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    I don't think someone who has been deliberately fed a narrative by an artificially created and targeted information sphere could be classed as insane. They're just misinformed.

    And by labelling them that, and not negotiating with their world view, you're just another part of the conspiracy that their world view seeks to battle. You represent the other side of the entrenchment line.
    A negotiation is by definition a two-way discussion. When they don't talk back but instead yell that I'm wrong and that Biden lost, I really have literally no obligation to deal with them.

    Until you, a seemingly reasonable person, realizes this, reality won't set in. Nevermind them.
    Last edited by Gaidin; January 20, 2021 at 10:25 PM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  11. #3911
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    A negotiation is by definition a two-way discussion. When they don't talk back but instead yell that I'm wrong and that Biden lost, I really have literally no obligation to deal with them.

    Until you, a seemingly reasonable person, realizes this, reality won't set in. Nevermind them.
    We are all reasonable in our own minds... somebody has to take the first step in a negotiation or conciliation. I'd suggest that the most reasonable be the one to take the first step.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  12. #3912

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    We are all reasonable in our own minds... somebody has to take the first step in a negotiation or conciliation. I'd suggest that the most reasonable be the one to take the first step.
    I’m not going to concede that Biden lost, especially when he didn’t. Step 1 is for them to not yell at me.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  13. #3913
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Gaidin is right, and to go further, it is clear that many Republicans are genuinely lost when it comes to reality.

    How in the hell do you extend a hand to people who think that a vast, multi-state conspiracy made Joe Biden win, while also not replacing people like McConnell or Graham?

    How in the hell do you try to work with people who entertain or even partake in the Qanon or satellite conspiracies that millions of people believe? And I mean ANY of those conspiracies that are going to be a gold mine that will redefine psychosis over the coming decade.

    How in the hell do you try to work with a party that does their very best to deny science, or even actively try to stop people from following it?

    How in the hell do you work with people who continue to try to suppress the votes of millions of people around the country?

    How in the hell do you work with people who let Trump get away with virtually everything over the past four years but then immediately start crying about "THE DEFICIT", "STANDARDS", and "MUH UNITY" as soon as he is gone?

    How the hell do you try to unite with a side that does very little, if nothing at all, to combat the white supremacists, bigotry, and fascism within their own party?

    I am 100% fine with working with Republicans. Contrary to what people may think of me, I do not want a 1 party state. I want the America I believed in growing up to become a reality again, where people from different backgrounds and political ideas come together to compromise on what is best for America moving FORWARD. I do not want this constant two steps forward one step back anymore.

    As a former Republican myself, there is a lot of trash that the Republicans need to handle within their ranks, on their own, before they can be taken seriously again. They also need to start actually introducing ideas and policies that are for actually fixing their states rather than keeping them in a perpetual state of poverty and having to rely on the fed to bail them out of everything. I left the party because I became disillusioned by what they were willing to tolerate, and their absolute unwillingness to do anything worthwhile or display any kind of spine against Trump and his cult.

    The last few months have shown there are many principled conservatives still within the party, but it feels like they are becoming increasingly quiet as they allow the crazies to the forefront. And if they aren't willing to deal with their own garbage I don't see how they can realistically expect anyone to work with them. They won't even do the bare minimum right now.

    I want the GOP to return to reality, but given how they have handled the last two months, I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon.
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  14. #3914

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Doesn't US history have episodes where parties reinvented themselves? Republican party needs that.
    The Armenian Issue

  15. #3915
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Yes, something people in this thread (and forum overall) seem to conveniently forget when they blame Democrats for things only conservatives would do both in the past and in the present. (It's a disingenuous argument, and you are all smarter than that)

    Personally I think we need a complete and total overhaul of both parties. Get rid of the rot in both, and make both remember they serve the country not their own interests.

    But as I said, one side has a lot more work to do than the other, and their calls for unity will be hollow until they actually step up and deal with detritus within their ranks.

    My worry is that if the GOP goes to war within itself, which side will come out on top? Because a few years ago I would have said the moderate and principled ones would have, but now I am not so sure. The cult of Trump has sunk its claws in deep, and I'm not sure that cancer will be easy to remove. And if they don't, we know it will metastasize.
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  16. #3916
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    Yes, something people in this thread (and forum overall) seem to conveniently forget when they blame Democrats for things only conservatives would do both in the past and in the present. (It's a disingenuous argument, and you are all smarter than that)

    Personally I think we need a complete and total overhaul of both parties. Get rid of the rot in both, and make both remember they serve the country not their own interests.

    But as I said, one side has a lot more work to do than the other, and their calls for unity will be hollow until they actually step up and deal with detritus within their ranks.

    My worry is that if the GOP goes to war within itself, which side will come out on top? Because a few years ago I would have said the moderate and principled ones would have, but now I am not so sure. The cult of Trump has sunk its claws in deep, and I'm not sure that cancer will be easy to remove. And if they don't, we know it will metastasize.
    Maybe this Patriot Party that Trump supposedly wants to start will clean out at least some of the cult.
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  17. #3917

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    So far you seem waaaay more obsessed with Trump than I am.

    Oh yeah, you've proven that. He lives in your head rent free, jeez.
    The resentment and paranoia about Donald Trump and his voters is indeed quite extraordinary.

    Spoiler for Rent free



  18. #3918
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    We are all reasonable in our own minds... somebody has to take the first step in a negotiation or conciliation. I'd suggest that the most reasonable be the one to take the first step.
    That would have to be the kind of negotiating parents do with their children, because that is what followers of populist leaders and movements are, mentally, in many respects: Self absorbed, short sighted, irresponsible, incapable of dealing with inconvenient truths, imaginative in inventing alternate realities, attention seeking, exhibiting fragile self esteem, incapable of controlling their own destiny. In the US, Trump was their daddy who would make everything alright. Right now they are sulking in the corner. If Biden treats them as adults, he won't get anywhere.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  19. #3919
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    Biden said he's passing a law making masks mandatory for everyone.
    in federal buildings.
    cut the lies, cut the vitimism

  20. #3920

    Default Re: USA elections 2020 - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The resentment and paranoia about Donald Trump and his voters is indeed quite extraordinary.
    o.0

    Two weeks ago Trump encouraged his cultists to storm the Capitol Building. They killed a police officer, vandalised the place and went looking for 'Traitors' to hang in the portable gallows they'd erected outside.

    And you seem surprised that people may not be entirely keen on either the perpetrators or the man egging them on...

    Amazing...

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