USA elections 2020 - 2021

[antaeus]

Yawn. This election isn't about Republican vs Democrat. This election is about globalism vs nationalism. The influx of illegals and indiscriminate immigration has diminished the power of the black vote along with planned parenthood. Both those issues are holy to the Democrat party. A lot of blacks have figured that out. Whether or not it is over the 15% threshold remains to be seen. November the 3rd will tell the tell. You're still thinking in the old paradigm that existed before Ted Kennedy's immigration bill of 1965. It is no longer applicable. You would have thought that the Dems would have figured this out after 2016. They're still counting eggs as chickens.

To my knowledge, Republicans and Democrats are still on the ballot box. The issues might change, but it's still the same paradigm.

[Coughdrop addict]

If Trump had any capacity for empathy, or was even competent enough to fake it, he would have moved in January on a national plan to provide states what they needed to ramp up testing, acquire PPE and other urgent supplies. At the same time he would have leveled with the American people, appealed for calm and for everyone's cooperation in wearing masks and social distancing and other necessary steps to stop it from spreading.

But unfortunately for 190,000 and climbing Americans, Trump is a sociopath who was concerned only with what was in it for him and his re-election chances. So Trump dragged his feet while it was rampantly spreading and didn't make any decisions until March. MARCH! He followed this stunning dereliction of duty up by undermining and mocking the state governors who were making decisions to keep their constituents safe.

If he were the CEO of a company he'd be fired over this.

[Sir Adrian]

Actually, let's. Who said that? Some politicians didn't follow their own recommendations, like Rep. Pelosi, Mayor de Blaiso, and Gov. Cuomo, but who recommended not wearing masks at protests? Supporting protests is very different from advocating for protests with no masks and no social distancing. Who would do that?

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ergency-powers
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...lenty-n1231654

Who would do that?

Hmm...

Show me single protest where people respected social distancing most people wore masks. The dynamics of protesting do not function like that. Moreover the official stance of the democrat governors was get out and protest no matter what. They saw that people were not wearing masks, they saw the virus spike and yet they continued to encourage the protests.

The only democrat governor that tried to impose social distancing and told people to wear masks at protests was the governor of Kentucky, and he was overruled by a democrat judge.

[Gaidin]

Yawn. This election isn't about Republican vs Democrat. This election is about globalism vs nationalism. The influx of illegals and indiscriminate immigration has diminished the power of the black vote along with planned parenthood. Both those issues are holy to the Democrat party. A lot of blacks have figured that out. Whether or not it is over the 15% threshold remains to be seen. November the 3rd will tell the tell. You're still thinking in the old paradigm that existed before Ted Kennedy's immigration bill of 1965. It is no longer applicable. You would have thought that the Dems would have figured this out after 2016. They're still counting eggs as chickens.

The election is always about Republican vs Democrat. What changes is the major issues of the election, candidates, and due to those issues and candidates, the major battlegrounds. Some of them get solidified temporarily. Some permanently. Others are battlegrounds temporarily. And states like Florida are always battlegrounds.

What you need to realize is that until a 3rd party controls enough population to control enough lower offices to control enough of the battleground, they can't be anymore than a spoiler(see 2016). It will always be Republican vs Democrat.

Also, you would've thought that a Republican would figure out that a party giving the Black voters nothing is better than a party taking away from them. Until the Republicans start giving the Black voters their issues and stop cutting them off at the knees at the ballot box vis a vis Georgia voter roll slashing at Atlanta and start fighting for their votes, this isn't really an argument you will win.

[Ludicus]

Perhaps Democrats should take a long sober look at the state of their own party.

Nobody is perfect, the Democratic Party has its flaws, but there is also a huge difference between the two parties: the respect for the role of the international law. If I remember well, Obama was and still is demonised and hated by the right-wing pro-Israel lobby, with Obama speaking openly against settlement construction and the need to end occupation. Let's go back in time, 2016,Obama just took a parting shot at Israel — and Trump — at the UN
---
Here's a recent example - the Democratic Party also respects the rule of the international law with regard to the Brexit. In the UK, Boris is ready to torpedo the whole process, and to tear up an international treaty already signed. Let's check the news.
UK government admits it will break international law over Brexit

Go figure!

Act of bad faith by Boris Johnson's government - says the Irish Times
Along the same lines,Le Monde - Pour l’UE, le projet de loi britannique sur le Brexit « violerait le droit international »

Darroch: Boris Johnson behaving like Trump in Brexit ...

Boris Johnson is copying Trump's tactics on Brexit, says the UK's former ambassador to the US

------
What does the Democratic Party have to say...?
If Brexit violates Northern Ireland treaty, Nancy Pelosi warns

'no chance' of US-UK trade deal if Brexit violates international treaty.

[Heathen Hammer]

Nobody is perfect, the Democratic Party has its flaws, but there is also a huge difference between the two parties: the respect for the role of the international law.

Was that before or after Obama bombed the most prosperous country in Africa, which now has slave markets that sell black people as slaves? Or was it about arming "democratic freedom fighters" in Syria that turned out to be garden variety theocratic beheaders? Or maybe that was the time where he bombed a children's hospital in Afghanistan? Or were those thousands of civilians that Obama killed with drone strikes? Or was it current rendition of Democratic party where they screech about Trump pulling troops out of Middle East in unison with Bush and other early 2000s GOP war criminals? Yeah, Democrats are just warmongering neocon chickenhawks who virtue signal by pretending to like minorities while passing laws that screw minorities over for decades and leading a vile globalist foreign policy.

[B. W.]

To my knowledge, Republicans and Democrats are still on the ballot box. The issues might change, but it's still the same paradigm.

I'm reminded of the old saying,"You can't see the forest for the trees". Until Trump literally yanked the rug out from under the feet of the GOP establishment both parties were all in on globalization. That's what you're not seeing. Bush Sr., Clinton, Junior, and Obama were all globalists. That's the change in the paradigm you can't see. Look at all the old time GOP establishment types that are supporting Biden. They're globalists.

The election is always about Republican vs Democrat. What changes is the major issues of the election, candidates, and due to those issues and candidates, the major battlegrounds. Some of them get solidified temporarily. Some permanently. Others are battlegrounds temporarily. And states like Florida are always battlegrounds.

What you need to realize is that until a 3rd party controls enough population to control enough lower offices to control enough of the battleground, they can't be anymore than a spoiler(see 2016). It will always be Republican vs Democrat.

Also, you would've thought that a Republican would figure out that a party giving the Black voters nothing is better than a party taking away from them. Until the Republicans start giving the Black voters their issues and stop cutting them off at the knees at the ballot box vis a vis Georgia voter roll slashing at Atlanta and start fighting for their votes, this isn't really an argument you will win.

Black unemployment is the lowest it has ever been. The reason is because Trump created economic zones that favored areas with heavy black populations. That's more than the Dems have ever done for blacks. Additionally, the percentage of blacks in America's demographic makeup is declining and the cause is the reasons I cited.

Going further, these new immigrants, by and large, have an unfavorable view of blacks. As an example, blacks are routinely mocked on Mexican TV as being lazy, as well as other "traits". This isn't happening in a vacuum as the Dems would like. Plenty of blacks are aware of it and they know they are being replaced with populations hostile to them.

The Dems strategy has always been to create a boogey man and that traditionally has been the republican party. In the last few years that has come to include "white males" to be the source of all their problems.

The fact is that the Democratic Party, as presently comprised, is nothing but a cult made up of divergent groups who would slaughter each other if given the chance. The only thing they have in common is the loathing for their "common enemy" white males and the Republican Party. The Dems greatest achievement is deceiving each group into believing that they are the ones who will be given pride of place when the hated enemy is destroyed once and for all. Of course, only one of those groups will make the cut.

The Republicans (Trump nationalists) on the other hand promise the protections and opportunities guaranteed in the Constitution. It remains to be seen whether or not the Dems have enough rubes duped into maintaining their status quo with the electorate. It failed them in 2016 and they haven't adjusted for it; instead they have doubled down promising more of what they delivered under Obama and Biden: globalism and a China-centric policy.

[pacifism]

If it were as simple as the sixties I would've started at the sixties and just linked an article they wouldn't read instead of starting in the thirties and bothering to write the thing out. Mostly for the sake of others and then to have HH deny it anyway?

The Republicans have done the research about the minority vote many times over the last century. Ranging from the 1930s on up to the 2010s. Everytime it just gets shelved to just rile up the white voter. Meanwhile, the minority populations are increasing decade by decade.

Well, I think the argument that it started in the 1930s is weaker than that it started in the '60s. Republicans were still able to gain a significant amount of the black vote right up until the Civil Rights Act, and in a way they never have since. FDR's presidency was an exceptional time, and Kennedy aligned himself with civil rights, which put something of a damper on that, obviously.

Show me single protest where people respected social distancing most people wore masks. The dynamics of protesting do not function like that. Moreover the official stance of the democrat governors was get out and protest no matter what. They saw that people were not wearing masks, they saw the virus spike and yet they continued to encourage the protests.

The only democrat governor that tried to impose social distancing and told people to wear masks at protests was the governor of Kentucky, and he was overruled by a democrat judge.

Sure.

After you tell me which Democrats were telling people it's safe to protest without masks.

I'm reminded of the old saying,"You can't see the forest for the trees". Until Trump literally yanked the rug out from under the feet of the GOP establishment both parties were all in on globalization. That's what you're not seeing. Bush Sr., Clinton, Junior, and Obama were all globalists. That's the change in the paradigm you can't see. Look at all the old time GOP establishment types that are supporting Biden. They're globalists.

Well, there were always people on the left who were skeptical of globalization because they felt it eroded local cultures and was too money-minded. They were a faction, not big enough to be mainstream. The contemporary right-wing anti-globalization perspective is ... well, just plain nationalism (often with the bad aspects included). Caring about people in our country more than the people in our world seems silly and short-sighted to me. The world is getting smaller, and we all live in it together, do we not?

Black unemployment is the lowest it has ever been.

No, it ain't. COVID, remember?

Before COVID, yes, it was quite low, but still twice as high as white unemployment. What gets me is that it is clearly a trend that started right after the last recession. Let's pretend the president can be responsible for the economy. Even then, Donald Trump's famously strong economic policy has only resulted in a continuation of a communist Kenyan's. Also, employment alone isn't enough to get out of poverty. Rising wages are necessary.

But I don't entirely blame you taking this route. Any argument that Trump has done good work improving race relations is bound to be pretty abstract.

[alhoon]

So, I would like to hear from Trump supporters what they think over Trump actually caught on tape saying Coronavirus was serious and that he downplayed it to the American people.
Do you think he was right to do that? Do you think he did it to give an optimistic turn to the doom-and-gloom? Do you think it was irresponsible?
To his benefit this time, I was neither surprised nor I consider it a major surprise. Trump likes to play it optimistic. It was irresponsible for him to treat this like he did, but it was not a surprise. There were certainly better ways to not turn the fear to full blown panic but let's be clear here: If Trump went on the news and said in his own bombastic style "Kung Flu will be the major challenge of our generation, surpassing the Great Recession and 9/11. Prepare for very hard times ahead. This will be the worse disaster for our country since the last world war when the Kurds refused to fight with us in Normandy." it wouldn't be just toilet paper vanishing from the shelves. There would be panic.
Considering Trump's preference for drama and big words, it could well have turned very bad.


I would also like to hear from Trump Supporters, now the we have Trump on tape saying Covid was serious and that he downplayed the danger... do you admit that Trump downplayed the danger?

[antaeus]

I'm reminded of the old saying,"You can't see the forest for the trees". Until Trump literally yanked the rug out from under the feet of the GOP establishment both parties were all in on globalization. That's what you're not seeing. Bush Sr., Clinton, Junior, and Obama were all globalists. That's the change in the paradigm you can't see. Look at all the old time GOP establishment types that are supporting Biden. They're globalists.

Blah bl bla blah blah blah.

What party names are on the box? Compare the GOP's policy platform from 1860 to the GOP's policy platform from 1962. They're entirely different. The paradigm is that the US is a two party state that swings back and forth. The issues move with the times.

[Coughdrop addict]

"Nationalism" is the right's new empty campaign slogan, just like a few years ago when they all parroted that they were "Pro-America". It allows them to seem like they are putting forth a platform without actually saying anything. Because the last thing they want to do is talk about their plans IE funneling all the nation's wealth to themselves, their cronies, and rich donors.

But this "Nationalism"-fetishism isn't just a cynical deception by the Republican elite, it's also hypocrisy of the worst kind. While the cult will tell you that Trump is the greatest patriot ever and the nation's only hope against China, they react with flat-out denial when told that Trump and his family have nearly everything they sell made in China. But it's true and proves that Trump doesn't believe in his "Nationalism" rhetoric in the slightest and probably has the same disdain for the nation in private that he does for his base.

Once Biden is elected expect Trump to cry foul and encourage his cult to start shooting, but at some point before Jan 20 he will flee to Russia. And he will speak of the US as he speaks of NYC now, as a hole he hated living in and always hated everyone living there.

[Heathen Hammer]

So, I would like to hear from Trump supporters what they think over Trump actually caught on tape saying Coronavirus was serious and that he downplayed it to the American people.

I don't see how he downplayed it to begin with. In fact, he reacted quite early and Democrats bashed him for it.

[tgoodenow]

I would also like to hear from Trump Supporters, now the we have Trump on tape saying Covid was serious and that he downplayed the danger... do you admit that Trump downplayed the danger?

Well, the reality of the situation appears to be that COVID isn't that serious for most people and that we're better off if everyone with a healthy immune system gets it and builds up some antibodies so that clusters can't be created. There is no exponential rise in cases as predicted, people get it, a large majority of them live, and life goes back to normal.

More importantly: at the height of the pandemic in America, Trump put enforceable lock downs on the table for NY and NJ and was rebuffed. Obviously the NY and NJ governors didn't think it was that serious if they didn't get onboard.

Look at Sweden and look at the rest of Europe's current situation.
Is every European country that is facing a second wave a failed leader? If the answer is no, but think DT handled this horribly, I'd like to understand the double standard.

[B. W.]

Blah bl bla blah blah blah.

What party names are on the box? Compare the GOP's policy platform from 1860 to the GOP's policy platform from 1962. They're entirely different. The paradigm is that the US is a two party state that swings back and forth. The issues move with the times.

And yet the fact remains that Bush Sr., Clinton, Junior, and Obama were all globalists.

[alhoon]

I don't see how he downplayed it to begin with. In fact, he reacted quite early and Democrats bashed him for it.

Whether you see how he downplayed it or not, he admits he downplayed it.

There is no exponential rise in cases as predicted

Ehmm... there is before lockdowns turn the exponential rise to linear rise. Local lockdowns can also work, I don't disagree with that. But the rise is exponential regionally before you apply lockdowns.

More importantly: at the height of the pandemic in America, Trump put enforceable lock downs on the table for NY and NJ and was rebuffed. Obviously the NY and NJ governors didn't think it was that serious if they didn't get onboard.

NY and NJ governors should be tried for the way they reacted to the pandemic as closing down the state was more on the governor and less on the federal government. Cuomo is personally responsible for tens of thousands of deaths with the nursing home fiasco.
BUT... the question was about Trump.

[QUOTE=tgoodenow;15953519
Look at Sweden and look at the rest of Europe's current situation.
Is every European country that is facing a second wave a failed leader? If the answer is no, but think DT handled this horribly, I'd like to understand the double standard.[/QUOTE]

Some European countries that will face the 2nd wave (predicted in the fall or winter, not yet) will be hit because of failed leadership.
Some European countries that will face the 2nd wave (again, predicted for fall, once temperatures drop) will be hit bad because of bad luck and not failed leadership.
Some European countries that will fare well in the 2nd wave will fare well because of luck despite failing in the leadership.
Some European countries that will fare well in the 2nd wave will fare well because of good leadership.


Good leadership doesn't make the problem go away, it mitigates it.
Sweden? I am afraid Sweden will pay a heavy price for their choice although I doubt there will be much socializing in winter.

Trump handled this very badly, downplaying the severity and being reluctant to put the weight of his office behind those that were fighting the whole thing. Order the army to move in containers for isolation of suspect cases. Put a call-to-arms of sorts to crank up production of ventilators. Remind every stupid democrat like Cuomo that both parties are on the same side of this instead of being divisive. Work closer with well-respected epidemiologists like Fauci. Tell Pelosi to stick her disagreements about the stimulus in a place that sun never shines as USA citizens need it.
That kind of thing.

[pacifism]

I would also like to hear from Trump Supporters, now the we have Trump on tape saying Covid was serious and that he downplayed the danger... do you admit that Trump downplayed the danger?

I like how you capitalized it: Trump Supporters. As if -- at this point -- supporting the president makes someone worthy of being classified as a proper noun.

Anyway, they will often bring up how he suspended travel to China, because that's what the president himself has brought up. It wasn't a total restriction: trade, Americans, and visiting family were all valid reasons to travel to China. However, it was not particularly early nor bold action. Alternatively, you can blame the state governors and mayors instead of the federal government, but who chose to leave it up to them in the first place? I say that the buck stops here.

I don't see how he downplayed it to begin with. In fact, he reacted quite early and Democrats bashed him for it.

But the president said that he downplayed it.

Well, the reality of the situation appears to be that COVID isn't that serious for most people and that we're better off if everyone with a healthy immune system gets it and builds up some antibodies so that clusters can't be created. There is no exponential rise in cases as predicted, people get it, a large majority of them live, and life goes back to normal.

More importantly: at the height of the pandemic in America, Trump put enforceable lock downs on the table for NY and NJ and was rebuffed. Obviously the NY and NJ governors didn't think it was that serious if they didn't get onboard.

Look at Sweden and look at the rest of Europe's current situation.
Is every European country that is facing a second wave a failed leader? If the answer is no, but think DT handled this horribly, I'd like to understand the double standard.

Well, we can talk about whether those non-American leaders are failures in the "2020 elections for countries that haven't landed on the moon" thread.


Are you referring to the quarantine Trump considered back in March? The one he ultimately decided against? I wonder how much the governors knew about the severity of COVID at that point, you know, seeing how the president lied about it.

The reason why we aren't pursuing a herd immunity is that there are still too many unknowns surrounding a relatively new virus. We don't know how quickly or badly people can get sick again. We don't know about the severity of long-term affects of being sick. Some people are going to die, or have long-term health conditions, pursuing a herd immunity strategy that we don't even know will work. It's a big risk.

And yet the fact remains that Bush Sr., Clinton, Junior, and Obama were all globalists.

Do you live on earth, or just America?

[Coughdrop addict]

Can you imagine Trump in any other setting?

"I didn't warn you about the iceberg to keep you calm. Ignore the lifeboats and enjoy the music on the deck. The Titanic will soon round the corner and float again."

"Pearl Harbor is on it's own. I take no responsibility at all."

[B. W.]

Can you imagine Trump in any other setting?

"I didn't warn you about the iceberg to keep you calm. Ignore the lifeboats and enjoy the music on the deck. The Titanic will soon round the corner and float again."

"Pearl Harbor is on it's own. I take no responsibility at all."

Speaking about taking responsibility. The health director of New York City said, "There is no problem with Covid here. Let's have a parade". Of course, just a mere two weeks later there were bodies stacked in refrigerated trucks lining the streets.

New York Dems, "It's Trump's fault!"

[athanaric]

Do you live on earth, or just America?

What's that supposed to mean?

[Stario]

I am not even American but from what I've seen of the election campaign and stuff like the above youtube clip -Not looking good for JB...Trump is looking like he'll win by a landslide. Also, Biden just looks like his cognitively no longer there anymore.