View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
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  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    14 42.42%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    15 45.45%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    2 6.06%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    2 6.06%
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Thread: USA elections 2020

  1. #661
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    And now Birtherbulls*** 2.0 has started..... not very creative Mr. President.
    Are you serious or joking?

    I would assume that's joking but with Trump, you never know. She has been an A.G. in the biggest state and a senator, they have checked her credentials.
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  2. #662

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    The question of the week is if you can have free elections with the president actively working to undermine it...
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  3. #663
    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Are you serious or joking?

    I would assume that's joking but with Trump, you never know.
    https://apnews.com/841b2ae6f1b3bd7815a9a0b21c046e60

    Quote Originally Posted by Associated Press
    Asked about the matter at the White House, Trump told reporters he had “heard” rumors that Harris, a Black woman and U.S.-born citizen whose parents were immigrants, does not meet the requirement to serve in the White House. The president said he considered the rumors “very serious.”
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  4. #664
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Harris is arguably one of the most radical left-wing members of her party, so if some people don't consider her leftist enough for their liking,
    Kamala was a good choice for the US. Kamala Harris on twitter, August 6.

    For a year, @AOC and I have worked with communities on landmark legislation to ensure that as we fight the climate crisis, we center that fight in justice and equity. Today, we're formally introducing the Climate Equity Act in Congress.

    Harris, Ocasio-Cortez Introduce Landmark Legislation to ...
    For the last year, Harris and Ocasio-Cortez have worked with frontline community leaders to receive feedback on this legislation to ensure the strongest policy possible.

    “COVID-19 has laid bare the realities of systemic racial, health, economic, and environmental injustices that persist in our country,” said Sen. Harris. “The environment we live in cannot be disentangled from the rest of our lives, and it is more important than ever that we work toward a more just and equitable future. That is why, as we combat the climate crisis and build a clean economy; we must put justice and equity first. I’m proud to partner with Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez on this comprehensive proposal to empower communities that have been neglected by policymakers for far too long.”
    “The Democratic Party is now finally starting to embrace what many activists have long advocated: climate policy must be driven by and centered around frontline communities,” said Rep. Ocasio-Cortez. “Major environmental policies must be written by the black, brown, and low-income people who have been and will be disproportionately impacted by it, just like the Green New Deal envisioned. For too long, policies that affect communities of color have been determined by a few white men in a room in Washington. The budding grassroots movement and electoral results we're seeing around the country make clear that Americans want to upend old, exclusionary order. I'm proud to partner with Senator Harris on a bill that will pave the way for a new, inclusionary way of doing things in D.C.”
    Specifically, the legislation will:
    Hold Congress Accountable

    • Require relevant legislation receive an equity score that is both quantitative and qualitative to estimate the impact on frontline communities.
    • The equity score will be modeled after the economic scores provided by the Congressional Budget Office, will be developed in consultation with experts and leaders from frontline communities, and will be updated periodically with the best available science.

    Hold the Executive Branch Accountable

    • Require that relevant rules and regulations that have significant impact on frontline communities undergo an additional level of review. This review will aim to mitigate negative impacts, maximize benefits, and bring representatives from frontline communities into the regulatory review process.
    • Require relevant federal grant-making and investment programs undergo review to ensure that frontline communities benefit by targeting investments and addressing existing barriers.

    Ensure Frontline Communities Lead

    • Establish an independent Office of Climate and Environmental Justice Accountability with a Board of Advisors made up of members and allies of frontline communities to represent the views of frontline communities in rulemaking at the beginning of the rulemaking process.
    • Establish a new position of Director for Climate and Environmental Justice at all relevant agencies to ensure compliance and coordination.
    • Require that representatives of frontline communities are at the table during the drafting and review of relevant rules and regulations, providing insights and comments on how to minimize negative impacts and maximize benefits to frontline communities and ensure those insights and comments are addressed.
    Not bad at all.
    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    One of the conservative arguments for removing Trump revolves around his abuse of executive authority: no matter how beneficial it may be to conservative causes, rule by executive fiat is unconstitutional and paves the way for dictatorship.
    Fixed.
    Now, if Trump does not represent conservative values, conservatives should not vote for him.
    The "abuse of the executive authority" is a red herring. From Teddy Roosevelt's presidency through Obama, presidents have averaged 118 executive orders per year.
    Executive Orders | The American Presidency Project

    -----
    More importantly, there is no cure for America's pathological obsession with guns. -let's go back in time-. Obama's executive order on guns is mostly political theater
    It's a lost cause,

    Last edited by Ludicus; August 14, 2020 at 01:42 PM.
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  5. #665
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Kamala was a good choice for the US. Kamala Harris on twitter, August 6.




    Harris, Ocasio-Cortez Introduce Landmark Legislation to ...

    Not bad at all.
    ----------


    Fixed.
    Now, if Trump does not represent conservative values, conservatives should not vote for him.
    The "abuse of the executive authority" is a red herring. From Teddy Roosevelt's presidency through Obama, presidents have averaged 118 executive orders per year.
    Executive Orders | The American Presidency Project

    -----
    More importantly, there is no cure for America's pathological obsession with guns. -let's go back in time-. Obama's executive order on guns is mostly political theater
    It's a lost cause,

    The count on Trump's executive orders sounds about right. What you're missing is the fact that most of those executive orders are overturning Obama's executive orders.Yea Trump!

    As far as Kamala is concerned, she's botoxic to middle America. The Dems are living in dreamland if they think the media can transform her into an idealistic mainstream persona.

  6. #666

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    OK, I am going to have to call you out big time on your hypocrisy. Your side criticized Obama without end for his executive orders - said he was trying to govern by fiat when the reality was that your party had agreed to oppose everything he did in lock step no matter what. I guess they care more about winning than governing, eh?

    Let's be honest, Obama could have signed executive orders that outlawed Islam and your side would still have opposed it.

  7. #667
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    The AP is not the most unbiased source and Trump saying "I heard this American-born woman doesn't meet the requirements" is not the same as "Obama was born in Kenya and lied about it".

    And it is still a very stupid thing to say.
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  8. #668
    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The AP is not the most unbiased source and Trump saying "I heard this American-born woman doesn't meet the requirements" is not the same as "Obama was born in Kenya and lied about it".

    And it is still a very stupid thing to say.
    Ap is providing quotes. Are you questioning the veracity of the quotes or just trying to throw shade on the story by giving an ambiguous: "I'm not saying it's wrong... just something we should think about" kind of response?

    And speaking of throwing shade... I'd suggest a sitting president questioning the legitimacy of an opponent who is unquestionably a US born citizen whom has just gone through a 2 year process in front of all the world's eyes to become that opponent, is a step worse from a private citizen casting about conspiracy theories about a president. We've been doing that here for years.
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  9. #669
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    OK, I am going to have to call you out big time on your hypocrisy. Your side criticized Obama without end for his executive orders - said he was trying to govern by fiat when the reality was that your party had agreed to oppose everything he did in lock step no matter what. I guess they care more about winning than governing, eh?

    Let's be honest, Obama could have signed executive orders that outlawed Islam and your side would still have opposed it.
    Hypocrisy? He used the same method to undo Obama's order that Obama used to enact them. You're just mad that he did it.

  10. #670

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    His point was the whining while Obama made them was incessant, the hypocrisy is the whining has stopped. Can you imagine if Obama increased the national debt the way Trump has. Or tried to bypass Congress to pass a stimulus. Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

  11. #671

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    His point was the whining while Obama made them was incessant, the hypocrisy is the whining has stopped. Can you imagine if Obama increased the national debt the way Trump has. Or tried to bypass Congress to pass a stimulus. Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
    It's ok when Republicans do it.

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  12. #672

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Ap is providing quotes.
    That is not a quote, the part you cited. And I'm questioning it because Trump didn't say he thinks the rumors are "very serious". That's the author's interpretation.

    Notice how they didn't include a video clip of the exchange in the article? You can find it online elsewhere. I heard people accusing mainstream media of selective quoting and lol, guess they weren't kidding.
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  13. #673
    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    That is not a quote, the part you cited. And I'm questioning it because Trump didn't say he thinks the rumors are "very serious". That's the author's interpretation.

    Notice how they didn't include a video clip of the exchange in the article? You can find it online elsewhere. I heard people accusing mainstream media of selective quoting and lol, guess they weren't kidding.
    That's not the author's interpretation, he literally said it was "very serious". By all means pull me up for being biased. I'm happy for you to. I am. But pick the right thing to pull me up on. AP tend to not do editorial comment, that's why they're the primary syndicated news feed that Fox publishes. Because they provide a relatively neutral base for Fox to editorialise over.

    In response to questions about the rumours, firstly he makes the reporter repeat the question a couple of times, so that he has a moment to think, then he replies:

    I just heard it today that she doesn't meet the requirements and by the way the lawyer that wrote that piece is a very highly qualified, very talented lawyer. I have no idea if that's right. I would have assumed the Democrats would have checked that out before she gets chosen to run for vice-president. But that's a very serious, you're saying that, they're saying that she doesn't qualify because she wasn't born in this country.
    Trump is a master orator. He doesn't get enough credit - particularly when he's answering questions from reporters. He is a master of apophasis, or praeteritio: "Saying without saying". It really is where his genius lies. His response to the question was a perfect example of this.

    He could say "No, I don't think that rumour is true" But instead he says a few important things. I've highlighted them in red. He says the lawyer who published the rumours is good. And he restates the rumour. Instead of refuting the rumour, he states that it is serious. So combined together implies "the rumour is from a solid source, it's serious, and here it is". He gives backing to the person who published the piece, therein signalling that it's worth looking at, that it's a big deal. Then doesn't commit to comment or making a position himself. He doesn't need to. He just leaves it hanging. The whole point is to muddy the waters - the world will take the story and run with it. This allows conspiracies to grow and chip away at competitors. It's a very powerful oratory technique, and he constantly shows he can do it on the fly.

    Instead of denying he is doing something, or blaming journalists for making stuff up, you should be relishing in how good he is at this kind of oratory. He is one of the best in the world at this technique. I wish I could do that.
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  14. #674

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    That's not him saying he thinks the rumors are very serious, that's the author's interpretation.

    The part that contains the words "very serious" isn't a complete sentence. If you're finishing it for him and saying "what he meant was" that's... an interpretation. English, how does it





    I am become grammar nazi, I knew this day would come.
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  15. #675

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Cutting through it is obvious what Trump was doing. He doesn’t think we can be certain Kamala meets the constitutional qualifications for VP in spite of all the evidence she does. Which still makes him an idiot.

  16. #676

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    That's not him saying he thinks the rumors are very serious, that's the author's interpretation.

    The part that contains the words "very serious" isn't a complete sentence. If you're finishing it for him and saying "what he meant was" that's... an interpretation. English, how does it





    I am become grammar nazi, I knew this day would come.
    Riggghhhttt....

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  17. #677
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Cutting through it is obvious what Trump was doing. He doesn’t think we can be certain Kamala meets the constitutional qualifications for VP in spite of all the evidence she does. Which still makes him an idiot.
    I don't often agree with WW.
    I do so here.

    PS. I still think Republicans are better than the other side. If only they had someone that is not so horrible than Trump... they would win in a landslide.
    I mean, they represent a good bunch of USA. They have highly educated people with real experience in governance. Ex-Governors with good records. How hard would it be to find someone that is NOT Trump in 2016?
    Let's hope for 2024...
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  18. #678
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    The supreme humiliation for Trump's administration: Russia and China didn't need to use their vetoes,
    UN Security Council Rejects U.S. Resolution To Extend Iran Arms Embargo

    Russia and China, as well as the European countries that were signatories to the nuclear pact officially known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), have questioned the U.S. claim it is able to trigger the snapback mechanism because it quit the nuclear deal in 2018 and reimposed sanctions on Iran.
    UN soundly defeats US demand to extend arms ... - AP News

    ..with the Trump administration getting support from only the Dominican Republic
    The five other powers — Russia, China, United Kingdom, France and Germany — remain committed to the deal.
    It seems to me that a Biden administration would most likely return to the Obama's Iran nuclear deal. Kamala Harris said before Trump's withdrawal from the agreement: "This nuclear deal is not perfect, but it is certainly the best existing tool we have to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons"

    Obviously.
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  19. #679
    Praefectus
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Usually Trump is good at trolling. Only a moron would give this any credence surely, its on par with his caravan of Afghan terrorists in Mexico, its just a way to stink up the airwaves with fantasy because reality looks so bad for him, and it worked in the past.

    This is a recycled troll though, and that failed when he used it on Obama. The Muslim Kenyan gave the Annoying Orange enough rope and Trump hung himself: the fake news narrative is the shame and rage propelled Trump into his successful assault on the White House but I think what really happened is Trumps first Presidential run was sunk with a single press conference. I'd say this is Trump repeating a self destructive behaviour because he's out of options.

    Just as an aside, if Trump could stop destabilising the US that'd be great. Its one thing for a creepy game show host to troll on Twitter, another for a sitting President to pre-**** the bed on a Presidential Election. This crap makes our ally weaker: the US is still unassailably strong but he's poisoning the political well.
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  20. #680

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I don't often agree with WW.
    I do so here.

    PS. I still think Republicans are better than the other side. If only they had someone that is not so horrible than Trump... they would win in a landslide.
    I mean, they represent a good bunch of USA. They have highly educated people with real experience in governance. Ex-Governors with good records. How hard would it be to find someone that is NOT Trump in 2016?
    Let's hope for 2024...
    Presidential systems where primaries and the like elect the leader are prone to all the things that have plagued democracy since Athens. Populism. Tyranny by the few. The US did a stellar job avoiding this mostly until Trump but he has successfully shown how easily such systems fail.

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