View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
78. You may not vote on this poll
  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    34 43.59%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    37 47.44%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    4 5.13%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    3 3.85%
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Thread: USA elections 2020 - 2021

  1. #641

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Yeah, this was a bad move, no way around it. The thought of Harris being one heartbeat away from the presidency is sure to drive many or most Trump-skeptical conservatives and moderates back into Trump's arms. The Democrats seem to be betting that the electorate would pick left-wing illiberalism over right-wing illiberalism, and I'm not sure that's a really smart bet.
    Brietbart and Stormfront have come to this conclusion as well.

  2. #642
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Payroll taxes pay for Social Security and Medicare. These are some of the most important political hot topics in the country as age 65+ voters are some of the most consistent voters in the country. Generation not mattering, they vote. The last president who thought he had the political capital to pass a bill through congress messing with social security was Dubya. That was when he beat Kerry and still controlled Congress. The Democratic backlash and lack of cooperation from Republicans was amazing. Bush dropped that like a radioactive potato.

    Now in this time where Senior Citizens are getting sick Trump wants to stop paying for Medicare in the 90 days leading up to the election? Smooth...

    I guess when Trump goes all in for the white voter without a degree, he goes all in.

    Frankly, I seriously doubt that Trump would press with that. As you paint it indeed seems like a radioactive hot potato.
    And I have no doubt that what you say is correct (or at least mostly correct) since indeed old people vote, old people are very very touchy on medicare and old people are getting sick.
    And it's 3 months from the elections.

    Trump may be many things but he can at least somewhat read what his voters want. It is insane to seriously push for that.
    Even what he said will be used so far about it, will be used against him. Even if he responds and twists what he said, he will still suffer from it.

    And this is Trump. When Trump is called out on something stupid, he usually doubles down and tries to bulldoze through.
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  3. #643

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    And I have no doubt that what you say is correct (or at least mostly correct) since indeed old people vote, old people are very very touchy on medicare and old people are getting sick.
    And it's 3 months from the elections.

    Trump may be many things but he can at least somewhat read what his voters want. It is insane to seriously push for that.
    Even what he said will be used so far about it, will be used against him. Even if he responds and twists what he said, he will still suffer from it.
    And thus...Trump doubles down.

    https://www.startribune.com/trump-pr...ted/572059892/

    https://thehill.com/policy/finance/5...roll-tax-pause
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  4. #644

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    "Ross K. Baker, a professor of political science at Rutgers University, said Trump has tried to tout his payroll tax cut without mentioning the effect on Social Security.

    “I think the fact that the payroll tax supports both Social Security and Medicare is not known to many people. I think that probably most people, if they think about the payroll tax at all, think of it as something goes to the general fund. But it’s a dedicated tax,” Baker said.

    “He’s been very careful about not connecting it to Social Security. I’m a little bit surprised that Democrats haven’t jumped on this more aggressively, because you can justly say the repeal or reduction of the payroll tax is a raid on the Social Security trust fund.”"

    Maybe because:
    “This is a victory for the American people. They spoke out clearly and, as a result, 160 million American workers will continue to receive their payroll tax cut – about $1,000 in the pockets of the average family. We are hopeful that the House and Senate will act tomorrow to provide certainty and economic security to American families."
    And:
    “Democrats have always demanded that we extend the payroll tax cut for 160 million Americans without paying for it."

    https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-...ayroll-tax-cut
    https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-...x-cut-proposal
    Last edited by Infidel144; August 12, 2020 at 06:52 PM.

  5. #645

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    "Ross K. Baker, a professor of political science at Rutgers University, said Trump has tried to tout his payroll tax cut without mentioning the effect on Social Security.

    “I think the fact that the payroll tax supports both Social Security and Medicare is not known to many people. I think that probably most people, if they think about the payroll tax at all, think of it as something goes to the general fund. But it’s a dedicated tax,” Baker said.


    “He’s been very careful about not connecting it to Social Security. I’m a little bit surprised that Democrats haven’t jumped on this more aggressively, because you can justly say the repeal or reduction of the payroll tax is a raid on the Social Security trust fund.”"
    Maybe because:
    “This is a victory for the American people. They spoke out clearly and, as a result, 160 million American workers will continue to receive their payroll tax cut – about $1,000 in the pockets of the average family. We are hopeful that the House and Senate will act tomorrow to provide certainty and economic security to American families."
    And:
    “Democrats have always demanded that we extend the payroll tax cut for 160 million Americans without paying for it."

    https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-...ayroll-tax-cut
    https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-...x-cut-proposal
    https://www.startribune.com/trump-pr...ted/572059892/
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  6. #646

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    You had that in your prior post. I can't read it. Demanding subscription. Does it address the Democrats supporting payroll tax cuts, going so far as Stretch saying they demand it without paying for it?.
    Last edited by Infidel144; August 12, 2020 at 07:31 PM.

  7. #647

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    lmao come on. What is your position? Democrats favor tax cuts? If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.*

    I realize this analogy may be completely discredited by the fact that due to the democrat sanctioned leftist positions in defunding the police and allowing looting and riots to proceed without any interference contributes to the destruction of cities and that bridges in Brooklyn may in fact be marketable if the Dem politician morons fail to stop the rioters from destroying the city...

  8. #648
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Yeah, the FiveThirtyEight election forecast is up. Let's remember that Donald Trump may be down, but he's certainly not out.

    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    see, here is the thing: biden will still lose. the "moderates", which is to say, non-GOP conservatives, will not be enough, neither will the progessives roped into this sham. the majority of americans want a stop to police violence, comprehensive healthcare, nothing of which will happen under biden, he is making no bones about this.
    Why? The Biden campaign's modus operandi is that woke Twitter doesn't represent America. The youth vote doesn't matter if the youth do not vote. The suburbs are how the House was won for the Democrats in 2018. Those are the people Biden hopes to win over.

    There is a bit of irony in your complaint. Their whole strategy is that us talking about it on the internet doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Yeah, this was a bad move, no way around it. The thought of Harris being one heartbeat away from the presidency is sure to drive many or most Trump-skeptical conservatives and moderates back into Trump's arms. The Democrats seem to be betting that the electorate would pick left-wing illiberalism over right-wing illiberalism, and I'm not sure that's a really smart bet.
    Why? Who do you think would be better, Tulsi Gabbard or Nikki Haley? If you are implying that this is some victory for the hard left faction of the Democrats, it's really not. The left wanted Warren, so if they see Vice-President Harris as a loss to them ... it's probably a loss to them.
    Last edited by pacifism; August 12, 2020 at 08:04 PM. Reason: added the 538 forecast
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  9. #649

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Was there some talk about Haley as VP pick? I mean, she is a Republican.

  10. #650
    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Nah, that was just an exaggeration on my part.
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  11. #651

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Pence confirms with Evangelicals Trump is for their agenda to enforce their morality on everyone. No way he ditches him.

  12. #652
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Gotta be very careful to sunset these cash bonanzas, you don't want to hard wire these highly corrosive measures.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  13. #653
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    Yeah, the FiveThirtyEight election forecast is up. Let's remember that Donald Trump may be down, but he's certainly not out.



    Why? The Biden campaign's modus operandi is that woke Twitter doesn't represent America. The youth vote doesn't matter if the youth do not vote. The suburbs are how the House was won for the Democrats in 2018. Those are the people Biden hopes to win over.

    There is a bit of irony in your complaint. Their whole strategy is that us talking about it on the internet doesn't matter.



    so, the suburbs are gonna do it for him, when they didnt for HRC? sure.

    and its not just young people who dont vote. but oc, just dont try to engage them, thats going to help.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...ld-card-115796

  14. #654

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    so, the suburbs are gonna do it for him, when they didnt for HRC? sure.

    and its not just young people who dont vote. but oc, just dont try to engage them, thats going to help.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...ld-card-115796
    Is there anything on what Trump is going to do to win the suburbs back besides "FEAR THE BLACK FOLKS!!!"?

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/29/trump-housing-policy-low-income-suburbs-386414

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  15. #655
    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    so, the suburbs are gonna do it for him, when they didnt for HRC? sure.

    and its not just young people who dont vote. but oc, just dont try to engage them, thats going to help.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...ld-card-115796
    I'm not sure what you see in that article that I don't. It even points out that "passive Democrats" may not even be bigger than "passive Republicans". And look, I'm all for more civic engagement and education and all that good stuff; we can and should engage with people about voting and promote a well-educated citizenry that votes. But that doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not you personally should support Biden because he isn't left enough for you or something.

    Did you read the whole article I linked on the suburban vote? 23 out of 36 House seats listed that the Democrats gained in 2018 (they netted 41, I don't where the other five went) voted for Romney in 2012 and Trump 2016. You shouldn't care that they didn't vote for Bernie Sanders clones because that's results. In 2016, the people who hated both candidates voted for Trump. Now they're breaking for Biden. Suburban voters were the tipping point faction that broke the Trump-driven Republican federal trifecta, not AOC's twitter. So yes, the suburbs will help do it for Biden. If you're going to tell me that Biden isn't exciting enough and it will ruin him, fine, you may be right. But a reluctant vote counts just as much as an enthusiastic one, and this election is basically just a Trump referendum anyway. The Democrats found a real way to expand their coalition; I don't blame them for taking it.

    C'mon, just support one you think is the lesser evil.
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  16. #656

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    Why? Who do you think would be better, Tulsi Gabbard or Nikki Haley?
    I think someone like Susan Rice or Keisha Lance Bottoms would check the Black and Woman boxes without needlessly antagonizing conservatives and right-leaning moderates - at least not as much as Harris will.

    If you are implying that this is some victory for the hard left faction of the Democrats, it's really not. The left wanted Warren, so if they see Vice-President Harris as a loss to them ... it's probably a loss to them.
    Harris is arguably one of the most radical left-wing members of her party, so if some people don't consider her leftist enough for their liking, that says more about them than her. It's hard to overstate how much of a radical ideologue and polarizing figure she is. To give just one example (though more can be found here and here):

    During the primary debates, Harris promised that if elected president, she would give Congress 100 days to pass gun control, and if they failed to do so, then she would impose a gun ban by executive fiat. When Biden objected that the president has no such power and is obliged to follow the Constitution, she laughed in his face: "Hey, Joe, instead of saying no we can't, let's say yes we can."



    One of the conservative arguments for removing Trump revolves around his abuse of executive authority: no matter how beneficial it may be to conservative causes, rule by executive fiat is unconstitutional and paves the way for dictatorship. But with Harris as VP and potentially a heartbeat away from being president, it's a lot harder to argue that a vote for Biden is a vote to rein in the presidency.

    Picking Harris for VP was Trump's wet dream. It's now even easier for him to argue that only illiberalism is on offer in November, that both sides would use the government to impose their worldview on the nation, and so Trump-skeptical conservatives might as well choose right-wing illiberalism over left-wing illiberalism. This is another example of the illiberal right feeding off of the illiberal left, which shows that the left is often not the solution to right-wing illiberalism so much as the cause of it.

    Maybe Biden will soothe these concerns over the coming months, but right now it looks to me that with Harris as his VP, the conservative case for Biden just got a lot weaker.

    (I'm using left and right loosely here. I personally believe all illiberalism is inherently left-wing)
    Last edited by Prodromos; August 14, 2020 at 01:26 AM.
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  17. #657

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    I think people who do not understand politics fail to credit how often decisions are the result of fundraising power. McConnell and Pelosi both rose up on fundraising power. Obama defeated the Clinton machine as much with it as hope and change. Kamala is a better fundraiser that the one choices. Dollars matter more often than not.

  18. #658
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    And now Birtherbulls*** 2.0 has started..... not very creative Mr. President.

  19. #659

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    And now Birtherbulls*** 2.0 has started..... not very creative Mr. President.
    Nothing motivates his base like racism. He's also trying to distract from Cohen's book and the revelation that he knew all about the Russian bounties on US troops and could care less.

  20. #660
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    And now Birtherbulls*** 2.0 has started..... not very creative Mr. President.
    Are you serious or joking?

    I would assume that's joking but with Trump, you never know.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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