USA elections 2020 - 2021

[TheDarkKnight]

Suppression and fraud are committed in the same spirit: to deny or inhibit a person’s right to political expression.



People ignored your proselytizing. What a tragedy. Retribution is certainly warranted.

Once again, people are making assumptions about my familial dynamics in this thread.

Am I missing out? Should I join in and assume you are terrible to your family members as well? I have just the right amount of credentials to judge your family issues as you do mine so I think it would be more than fair.

My brother, who is twice my age, has fallen for all the Trump hook, line, and sinker. We had all the same political beliefs four years ago but Trump was where we split. I told him how and why Trump was a terrible choice, and more or less everything I had anticipated Trump doing while in office has come to pass. Hell I didn't even anticipate it this bad because I assumed some GOP would have a spine but they simply didn't. To call it "proselytizing" is actually insulting to the amount of effort I have expended to convince family members that they are supporting an objectively terrible person who is conning them into conveniently ignoring their so called "Conservative principles" that they have espoused to me over the years.

I'm not going into any further detail because it is useless and tiring, but let's just say that after years of trying to convince him OUT of doing/supporting something, I'm not going to exert the energy needed to try again.

My brother would rather listen to the charlatans he doesn't know than the brother he does. I'm done trying to change that. If that makes me an objectively bad person I guess I can live with that.

[Aexodus]

I think you need to be able to accept that family and friends might support the other guy. That's the way the world turns.

[alhoon]

I think you need to be able to accept that family and friends might support the other guy. That's the way the world turns.

Or stupid causes.
I love my aunt. But if she says something about politics it's probably wrong. She recently started enthusiastically supporting the same side in Greek politics I reluctantly supported.
I am now not supporting that side, because if she does, there's something deeply wrong there.

Regardless, I would never assume that my aunt trying to convince me, or me trying to convince my aunt is "manipulation" or "suppression". We talk politics with my aunt and we may even argue loudly about it (We're mediterraneans, not English). Then we will move on to other annoying things like when I would get married and stuff. I wish I would see her for Christmas but Covid restrictions.

[Cope]

Or stupid causes.
I love my aunt. But if she says something about politics it's probably wrong. She recently started enthusiastically supporting the same side in Greek politics I reluctantly supported.
I am now not supporting that side, because if she does, there's something deeply wrong there.

Regardless, I would never assume that my aunt trying to convince me, or me trying to convince my aunt is "manipulation" or "suppression". I wish I would see her for Christmas but Covid restrictions.

It was not claimed that persuasion is tantamount to manipulation or suppression. It was claimed that tricking a person into spoiling their ballot is.

[B. W.]

So why did they hand the printed copy to the local official if it didn't match what they punched on the touch screen? Why did the officials certify it if the printed copies didn't match the electronic numbers?

Is she ready to answer these questions?

Hell, for this forum, are you ready to answer these questions? Or are you just spouting off conspiracies?

The printed copy is a bar code.

Once again, people are making assumptions about my familial dynamics in this thread.

Am I missing out? Should I join in and assume you are terrible to your family members as well? I have just the right amount of credentials to judge your family issues as you do mine so I think it would be more than fair.

My brother, who is twice my age, has fallen for all the Trump hook, line, and sinker. We had all the same political beliefs four years ago but Trump was where we split. I told him how and why Trump was a terrible choice, and more or less everything I had anticipated Trump doing while in office has come to pass. Hell I didn't even anticipate it this bad because I assumed some GOP would have a spine but they simply didn't. To call it "proselytizing" is actually insulting to the amount of effort I have expended to convince family members that they are supporting an objectively terrible person who is conning them into conveniently ignoring their so called "Conservative principles" that they have espoused to me over the years.

I'm not going into any further detail because it is useless and tiring, but let's just say that after years of trying to convince him OUT of doing/supporting something, I'm not going to exert the energy needed to try again.

My brother would rather listen to the charlatans he doesn't know than the brother he does. I'm done trying to change that. If that makes me an objectively bad person I guess I can live with that.

Trump is the first President in my lifetime that actually tried to do the things he campaigned on.

He didn't start a new endless war.

He moved the US embassy to Jerusalem. I think every President in my lifetime has promised to do that, including Obama. and none did.

He said he would redo trade agreements and did.

He said he would make the NATO nations start paying their fair share. He did.

He said he would build a wall to slow down the drugs coming into the country. This is the one that got him elected and in spite of numerous attempts by Democrats to undermine him, he found a way to do it.

He actually got peace agreements started in the middle east. This was something considered impossible.

He took out Suleimani. Bush and Obama were afraid to do it because they thought it would start a war with Iran.

He said he would take the US out of the Paris Climate Heist and he did.

He rebuilt the military that Obama and Bush decimated.

He turned the economy around. It turned out that the things Obama said weren't possible actually were possible.

Etc., Etc., Etc.,

You should listen to your older brother.

"Orange man good!"

[antaeus]

I think you need to be able to accept that family and friends might support the other guy. That's the way the world turns.

Certainly people have the right to choose which candidate they please. But I'm not sure that we should all give up on ever trying to convince people that they might want to do or be or think something different. That would have an awful large number of marketing, communication, advertising and design etc agency executives coming after you with torches lit. And that would be a sight to behold.

My father in law voted for Trump. We have robust discussions regularly. He has the right to vote for whomever he pleases. But we're family. I can try my damnedest to convince him otherwise. Harkening back to Cope from a couple of pages back... the perverse element in our current political trends is that it seems intent on discouraging polite discourse - to exaggerate differences and push people into one extreme camp or another. I advocate engaging in as much robust family debate as possible - to fight against this trend of divisiveness.

[Gaidin]

The printed copy is a bar code.

So what? You say that like it would in anyway take away from my question. If the printed copies arrive to a different number than the electronic numbers, why would they certify it?

[TheDarkKnight]

I think you need to be able to accept that family and friends might support the other guy. That's the way the world turns.

I don't have to accept the unacceptable. The cult devotion to that insipid, childish man is disturbing on a deeply personal level that I cannot explain, and if you don't get it, you don't get it.

His behavior alone warrants absolute disgust, much less his politics. I could live with the politics, as disgusting as they are, but the behavior he exhibits is literally worse than children. And that behavior has spread to his screaming fans at his hate rallies and other events. Trump has brought out the worst in the right, and the fact that so many people are so comfortable bringing their anti-American hatred of others to light is even more disgraceful.

And you know what? If he was a Democrat behaving the way he does and encouraging his followers to do the same, I would be saying the exact same thing, along with the millions of conservatives that would be pissed about it as well. Because I am not a spineless hypocrite that is unable to criticize his own party.

My convictions are that the party I belonged to until Trump came along is full of nothing but such spineless hypocrites that are unwilling to stand up to what he is, or even worse, desperately love such characteristics in the way that only authoritarians clamor over. And I am so, so thankful I got out before I fell for that idiocy. The shame would be unbearable if I had ever cast a vote for that living, breathing colostomy bag.

And I am more thankful that that cult is in shambles over his loss, because if he had even adequately managed the virus and behaved like an adult he could have coasted to an easy second term.

In any case, I repeat that I don't have to accept it. Burning bridges has pretty much been the theme this year, with many, MANY heated arguments with people over politics and especially their absolutely idiotic views on the virus. One such family member flat out said that the country must be open no matter the cost, and said that I would be a necessary sacrifice in order to not tank Trump's economy (?!). His words, not mine. Another family member has been saying in group texts that all Democrats need to be rounded up and shot, not realizing that, hey, that's half the ing family. He meant it too, he was not joking. Why should I keep that kind of person around? Why should I simply agree to disagree instead of simply delete on sight and decide they are no longer worthwhile?

And I can live with that. I don't need these friends and family, not when I don't recognize them anymore as such. They are not the same friends and family, but mere shadows of the great people I used to consider them.

And I hate that that stupid child pretending to be a world leader is the cause of all of this, but at the same time I am also thankful that he has exposed this rot within my social and familial group.

----

Now, moving on from my personal issues surrounding the 2020 election and how gleeful it has made me to see Trump supporter's prayers be resoundingly rejected by whatever deity they worship, I am happy to report that the one Republican I DID vote for this year resoundingly defeated the incumbent (corrupt as hell) Democrat in our local elections. You would think such local elections wouldn't have as much drama surrounding them but this one was worse than our previous mayoral race.

Small towns are weird

[PointOfViewGun]

Trump is the first President in my lifetime that actually tried to do the things he campaigned on.
He didn't start a new endless war.
He moved the US embassy to Jerusalem. I think every President in my lifetime has promised to do that, including Obama. and none did.
He said he would redo trade agreements and did.
He said he would make the NATO nations start paying their fair share. He did.
He said he would build a wall to slow down the drugs coming into the country. This is the one that got him elected and in spite of numerous attempts by Democrats to undermine him, he found a way to do it.
He actually got peace agreements started in the middle east. This was something considered impossible.
He took out Suleimani. Bush and Obama were afraid to do it because they thought it would start a war with Iran.
He said he would take the US out of the Paris Climate Heist and he did.
He rebuilt the military that Obama and Bush decimated.
He turned the economy around. It turned out that the things Obama said weren't possible actually were possible.

This is the same delusional thinking that exists under most right leaning administrations in the world. Its unfortunate to deal with such low standards in critical thinking. Most of what you said is either outright false or pretty misleading. Many Republicans, few years down the road, will be contemplating if whoring around their standards for Trump out of all people was the right thing to do...

[pacifism]

Alright everyone, that's enough talk about someone else's family for this thread.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Benson and Calley were right that Trump was never going to succeed at altering the outcome in Michigan—or in any of the other contested states, or in the Electoral College itself. The 45th president’s time in office is drawing to a close. No amount of @realdonaldtrump tweets or wild-eyed allegations from his lawyers or unhinged segments on One America News can change that.

But what they can change—where he can ultimately succeed—is in convincing unprecedented numbers of Americans that their votes didn’t count. Last month, Gallup reported that the public’s confidence in our elections being accurate dropped 11 points since the 2018 midterms, which included a 34-point decrease among Republicans. That was before a daily deluge of dishonest allegations and out-of-context insinuations; before the conservative media’s wall-to-wall coverage of exotic conspiracy theories; before the GOP’s most influential figures winked and nodded at the president of the United States alleging the greatest fraud in U.S. history.

Trump failed to win Michigan. But he succeeded in convincing America that a loss, no matter how conclusive, may never again be conclusive enough.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...mocracy-440475

Another concern is Trump’s access/knowledge of national security secrets after leaving office. As far as he’s concerned, anything is for sale. We’ve seen that. Let’s hope his child like attention span and illiteracy has dimmed that prospect, but the FBI/intel services ought to keep a close eye on the Trump family in any case.

[Coughdrop addict]

Another concern is Trump’s access/knowledge of national security secrets after leaving office. As far as he’s concerned, anything is for sale. We’ve seen that. Let’s hope his child like attention span and illiteracy has dimmed that prospect, but the FBI/intel services ought to keep a close eye on the Trump family in any case.

I'd worry he plans to barter secrets to Putin in exchange for asylum, but more than likely Putin has had free access to the entire US Intelligence services for four years now.

[Gaidin]

Trump appointed Appeals Court judge shreds Trump case. But, we're not surprised right now are we?

[TheDarkKnight]

Trump appointed Appeals Court judge shreds Trump case. But, we're not surprised right now are we?

Clearly that judge is AKSHULLY a member of Antifa, BLM, and the Deep State.

Goddern Trump appointed activist judges



Edit: All THREE judges on the appeals panel are Republicans. They can't even get their stupid, frivolous cases through a panel with the odds stacked in their favor

How pathetic this whole situation is. I'm glad they chose Melty Giuliani and Powell as the spearhead of this antidemocratic effort, I might actually have been worried if they had someone competent and not a lunatic.

[antaeus]

Clearly that judge is AKSHULLY a member of Antifa, BLM, and the Deep State.

Goddern Trump appointed activist judges



Edit: All THREE judges on the appeals panel are Republicans. They can't even get their stupid, frivolous cases through a panel with the odds stacked in their favor

How pathetic this whole situation is. I'm glad they chose Melty Giuliani and Powell as the spearhead of this antidemocratic effort, I might actually have been worried if they had someone competent and not a lunatic.

The best part was the savaging of Giuliani for not actually producing anything other than a few minor procedural issues as opposed to his public press conference claims.

These judges are Trump and Bush appointees. In that vein, I'd like Giuliani to take this to the Supreme Court so that the Trump loaded bench can also savage him there. It would be the best irony.

If judges appointed by a president continually reject that presidents claims, all this is doing is proving that checks and balances actually work.

[Ludicus]

Trump...He took out Suleimani

I feel that I have answered this question before,but I'm not sure anymore. Be proud,B.W. He hasn't stopped yet, determined to weaken the chances of diplomacy before the handover of power next January. As we already know,Biden wants the Iran nuclear deal back.
Iran vows retaliation after top nuclear scientist shot dead
Let’s hear what Biden has to say...

Meanwhile,
Thomas Piketty Urges Biden To Adopt Sanders, Warren Plans

[TheDarkKnight]

The best part was the savaging of Giuliani for not actually producing anything other than a few minor procedural issues as opposed to his public press conference claims.

Exactly. There is no consistency in the messaging between what they are saying when the cameras are on them versus what they are ACTUALLY producing when asked.

But those press conferences are nothing but red meat for the ravenous, gullible rubes that keep gleefully handing over their money.

Though as Gaidin pointed out at least one person is trying to get their money back after they realized that they had been scammed. I can't say I feel sorry for him if he thought blowing 2.5 million to overturn an election whose outcome he doesn't like was a brilliant idea.

I truly wonder how many irresponsible Trump supporters are throwing their money on that bonfire, donating their money to a man who literally does not care about them at all. They could sign off their whole life savings to the COVID King before dying of the virus themselves and he would only mourn the fact that now they won't be able to send him more.

This has definitely been the greatest con in modern history; I would almost respect it if didn't have such devastating consequences on world politics.

[Coughdrop addict]

Exactly. There is no consistency in the messaging between what they are saying when the cameras are on them versus what they are ACTUALLY producing when asked.

But those press conferences are nothing but red meat for the ravenous, gullible rubes that keep gleefully handing over their money.

Though as Gaidin pointed out at least one person is trying to get their money back after they realized that they had been scammed. I can't say I feel sorry for him if he thought blowing 2.5 million to overturn an election whose outcome he doesn't like was a brilliant idea.

I truly wonder how many irresponsible Trump supporters are throwing their money on that bonfire, donating their money to a man who literally does not care about them at all. They could sign off their whole life savings to the COVID King before dying of the virus themselves and he would only mourn the fact that now they won't be able to send him more.

This has definitely been the greatest con in modern history; I would almost respect it if didn't have such devastating consequences on world politics.

Trump is just the natural conclusion to the GOP's malignant refusal to engage in any productive governance for the last 30 years. They have been focused on breeding a generation of know-nothings, stoking white resentment, rolling back voting rights, destroying public education, and generally entrenching minority rule.

Honestly, if he was willing to really make this a do-or-die coup attempt, I think most of the cult would back him in some confused and ineffectual manner, but he lacks the nerve so he "faux-coups" by claiming the election was rigged and then hopes somebody else will risk their life to keep him in power

[skh1]

Fork…

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-tr...232316296.html

Stick…

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

electoral college map - Yahoo Search Results

Done…

Pffft.

[Gaidin]

While we're on the subject, Biden has a net gain of about a hundred in Milwaukee County during the recount.