alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
"New left"? (1) thanks for the compliment, but I'm old.
Trump is a clown, Knight of Heaven. According to blubberhead Trump, everyone lies. International organizations, the UN, the WHO, the CDC, and doctors. But Trump lies. All the time. It’s really hard to understand Trump lovers´ willingness to excuse his blatant falsehoods.
An unfinished compendium of Trump’s overwhelming dishonesty during a national emergency All of Trump's Lies About the Coronavirus - The Atlantic
That's because you haven't been paying attention.
The Checks and Balances That Trump Has Swept Away - The ...
Trump's authoritarian style is remaking America - The ...
Trump is an authoritarian weakman – POLITICO - Politico EU
Trump's Moves Are Right Out of the Authoritarian Playbook
Authoritarianism experts warn time is running out to stop Trump
Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian - New York Magazine
It's Not Just Trump. Authoritarian Populism is Rising Across ...
How do we know that Trump supporters are authoritarians?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
(1) I was joking.Wright Mills was a quintessentially American thinker.
Letter to the New Left by C. Wright Mills 1960
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Nowadays, however, the "New" left argues for a more democratic economy. This means that a democratic and an exploitative economy are fundamentally incompatible.
In the UK, there are two essential thinking groups: NEF and Class.
New Economics Foundation: Together we can change the rules
Centre for Labour and Social Studies: CLASS
Last edited by Ludicus; July 14, 2020 at 01:45 PM.
Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
Charles Péguy
Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
Thomas Piketty
A clown? Yes. An authoritarian monster? not really. As much as the Democratic leaning media wants him to be.Trump is a clown, Knight of Heaven.
On the contrary i have been paying very much attention.
Yes lets call the new left for what it is, the far left, with a new coat of paint. A product of a diminished traditional, center left."New left"? (1) thanks for the compliment, but I'm old.
Well no, but I only care about your argument if you're being genuine about it. Do you value those things because you value those things (ie, do you share the social values of Evangelicals?) or are you dishonestly and cynically pretending to care about these things and strawmanning because it is politically expedient for you?
Trump has revoked HK special status. Joe Biden is going to have to take an actual stance on China it appears.
Biden's stance is basically current US policy. Oppose China. Thats not going to change unless you get like someone like Bernie as President.
It is good that HK's special status is revoked IMO. It would more effectively hamper China's economic growth than tariffs and less of a cost towards USA.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
_______________________________________________________
Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
Here is an interesting 538 article on voter enthusiasm, which I saw being discussed a few pages ago. I think it's important to keep in mind that the general idea in American elections is that because there are only two parties, they are basically trying to to build a coalition of voters supporting their government instead of a coalition of parties, like in the U.K. or something. It's not entirely surprising that Trump has a strong core base -- he caters to it quite a bit. But you also need a wide base in a presidential election. You need to appeal to independents. In the States, you don't try to converts Democrats to Republicans or vice versa. You try to convert Independents to your party. Incumbent presidents usually win, but Trump doesn't seem to be doing very much about expanding his base, which is almost a rookie mistake.
The 538 articles links to another one on voters who dislike both candidates, which I think is a big part of the narrative behind the last election. Both candidates were unusually unpopular, but does that necessarily mean Trump could not have beaten a Democrat who wasn't so unpopular? Would Clinton have lost to any other Republican? I think the 2020 and 2024 elections will help clear those questions up. If Trump loses his re-election bid, the GOP might wonder if they would've won if they served a more palatable option in 2016, and the Democrats might wonder if Trump's presidency itself was fairly avoidable in the first place. Maybe the parties won't take their own base for granted as much and play chicken with how bad of a candidate the party voters will put up with.
I must be too much of a dirty globalist for that to comfort me.
I do share the social values of Evangelicals because I am one. The difference is that unlike most Evangelicals, I don't think the Republican Party is particularly more Christian or anything. I think Trump's behavior towards his wives and other women is wrong because of my Christianity, not because I'm all-aboard that #MeToo train. It's not the only reason I won't vote for him. It's not even a major reason why I won't vote for him. But it's disingenuous for someone to call Biden a creepy old man -- which is probably true -- but keep silent on what the other guy is.
Personal ethics is just one thing to consider for a candidate. There are other metrics: business ethics, experience, leadership style, ideology, political stances, etc. Even though my state primary was after Super Tuesday and therefore too late for it to matter, I didn't vote for Biden in the primaries. I don't currently plan on voting for him again. I don't actually like him or really want him in particular to be President. Maybe that is a little bit politically expedient of me.
@ pacifism, so who do you plan to vote for in 2020?
I believe Black Protestants vote Democrat in spite of their religion, not because of it. They're hardly pleased about, e.g., the growing calls within the Democratic Party to strip religious organizations of their tax status, which would wipe out the Black Church in America. And in recent years young, church-going black voters have been drifting toward the GOP; evidently for these young voters, who are less institutionally attached to the Democratic Party than older black voters, the Democrats have become so hostile to their beliefs and way of life that the racial divisiveness and identity politics don't make up for it anymore. Could Republicans do more to attract black voters? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the Democratic Party is hostile to conservative Christians, including black conservative Christians.
I'm sure some were, some weren't. Ultimately, all government is rooted in violence against innocent people, so any time you vote for one politician or another you're always voting for some kind of immorality, whether it's deporting refugees or murdering unborn children. Unless you're willing to condemn every voter as immoral, I don't think it's justifiable to call Trump voters immoral.As for the rest of your post, yes, I think I was mistaken. It's a Republican-leaning demographic more than a Trump-leaning demographic. I had thought it was because previous Republicans acted like good old boys who loved Jesus, but it's clearer now that that isn't an actual standard to these voters. It feels like these voters weren't very concerned about personal ethics in politicians, just political victories.
In a society where the government is always enforcing its will on the community, people will naturally feel pressured to try to get a seat at the table, not to score 'political victories' (as if it's a sport), but purely as a survival mechanism. So I don't think a conservative Christian voting for Trump to keep the Democrats out of power is any more immoral or hypocritical than a libertarian Christian voting for the Social Democrats to keep the Nazis out of power, or an Egyptian Christian supporting the local dictator to keep the Muslim Brotherhood out of power, or a Puritan siding with a high-church Protestant monarch to keep someone like Bloody Mary out of power. Is it something I'd do? Probably not in most situations, but life is more complex than "people who make different choices than me are bad people."
Last edited by Prodromos; July 16, 2020 at 04:00 PM.
Ignore List (to save time):
Exarch, Coughdrop addict
Sure. Trump courted quite a few high profile Evangelicals (and prosperity theology figures) during the last election and especially early on in his presidency. But voting for someone because you agree with them on the issues is a far cry from religiously (heh) defending whatever he does. That was my main complaint: why is so much more than voting and stances now?
Right now, probably Biden. Definitely not Trump. What about you?
Perhaps, I can't say that for certain. But most Blacks are still fairly moderate on everything except racial issues, which is not good for our current president. And yet despite all of the talk about identity politics, I think there is a trend away from it among younger people compared to their own grandparents. Young Cuban-Americans don't vote Republican as much, younger blacks are starting to diverge a bit towards "I'm super liberal on all the issues" and "maybe I actually will vote Republican this time".Originally Posted by Prodromos
I can only hope that if people stop basing their vote on their identity, that they won't base their identity on their vote either.
But I will say that I have my reservations about what I'm told about Democrats being hostile to conservative Christianity. I guess it's only natural: if someone mixes their religious identity with their political one, a political attack will also feel like a religious one as well. I think the woke progressive probably feels like the American government has spent most of its life being dominated by conservative white Christians, and its time to break up that hegemony a little. To me, that's an understandable political stance because American culture pretends to be more religious and more Christian than it really is. Maybe it's foolish of me to think that it's only a political attack on conservative Christianity. I think that my own political journey is rooted in a disgust for politics and disillusionment with the direction the GOP headed in 2016, and I decided I didn't have to play along with the uglier elements of it.
I agree with the rest of your post, by the way.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/197576/...nts-elect.aspx
For those thinking Trump's current numbers (40% favorability) are an insurmountable problem, remember he got elected with 34% favorability. He is doing much better than he did in 2016.
At no point during his campaign that ended with him in the White House, Trump broke 40% approval rating. Around this time in 2016, Trump had ~30% approval rating, trailing Hillary by 10%-15% or so. Even in September-November, Clinton's average was 8% better than Donald Trump. She was less unpopular but he won handily. According to source that's because he won 3-to-1 those that disliked both Hillary and Trump.
Democrats have a problem despite their nice models. While 2016 was a fluke, 2020 has Trump better situated than he was in 2016 although it is unlikely he will win 3-to-1 those that dislike both candidates again. His "novelty" is worn off at the time (or so I think).
Here's another source.
With Biden hiding in his closet, the Democrats avoid the worst he could do to their cause and it is a wise strategy. Trump is his own worst enemy but the same can be said for Biden. But can the democrats keep Biden locked away long enough? Perhaps, perhaps not. We will see.
At this point, I think it is about equal chance of either of them to win.
Last edited by alhoon; July 18, 2020 at 08:07 AM.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
_______________________________________________________
Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
Numbers have been provided for who Evangelicals vote for, not how many of them zealously defend every action of the president. I'm sure that a lot have a problem with his actions, be they past or current, but would still vote for him because he runs on a platform much more appealing to the religious crowd than the other candidate's party. One can only assume that, from a religious point of view, millions of babies being killed by abortions is a far, far more important issue than who Trump tries to sleep with or who Biden sniffs. One must at times distinguish the party from the candidate.
Trump's authoritarian buffoonish is uniquely dangerous.
I know what means a diminished ventricular function,diminished lung sounds, or a diminished vision of civil rights- for instance.
A diminished left? I never heard of such a thing...try again, Knight of Heaven.The Gavin Free Insult Generator
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In Europe, generally speaking, racism is linked to the politicisation of migration. In the US, there is a racial cold (or not so cold...) war. That wasn't too surprising, considering the fact that the US was born in 1964. As I had mentioned earlier,Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Definition, Summary & Significance
Last edited by Ludicus; July 18, 2020 at 08:54 AM.
Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
Charles Péguy
Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
Thomas Piketty
That could be related to the fact he publicly associated himself with birtherism beginning around that time. My takeaway from this graphic is Trump has never broken 50% approval in his entire life.
Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII