View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the 2020 US Presidential elections?

Voters
76. You may not vote on this poll
  • Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Republicans)

    33 43.42%
  • Joe Biden - Kamala Harris (Democrats)

    36 47.37%
  • Jo Jorgensen - Spike Cohen (Libertarians)

    4 5.26%
  • Howie Hawkins - Angela Walker (Greens)

    0 0%
  • Other (please, specify)

    3 3.95%

Thread: USA elections 2020 - 2021

  1. #2741
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    I'm laughing, but also tired. So very tired. :'D
    Last edited by Cope; November 26, 2020 at 07:46 AM.

  2. #2742
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    @Legio

    You're not resolving anything with that definition, because in it 'contentious' only has meaning relative to a currently accepted theory. Having no theory at all is not a position from which you can claim someone else's to be 'contentious'.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  3. #2743
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    @Legio

    You're not resolving anything with that definition, because in it 'contentious' only has meaning relative to a currently accepted theory. Having no theory at all is not a position from which you can claim someone else's to be 'contentious'.
    There is no established scientific conclusion predicating nebulous group behaviors on perceived bias. The onus is on those making such claims to establish them.

  4. #2744
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    In normal English please.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  5. #2745
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    The first of the long awaited lawsuits by Sidney Powell have been filed. One in Michigan and one in Georgia. The press has been saying "the is no evidence of fraud" for weeks now. I wonder how they're going to spin this new development:

    https://defendingtherepublic.org/wp-...11.25.2020.pdf

    It just incredible the things that were uncovered in such a short amount of time. For me, being a veteran, the most outrageous thing was that 900 absentee military ballots from just one county were all counted for Joe Biden. It defies belief.

    As an addendum, I have to wonder out loud just how many revolutions in countries using Dominion voting machines and software are going to take place with the revelations coming out.
    Last edited by B. W.; November 26, 2020 at 03:27 PM.

  6. #2746
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    If you have reason to believe the way things are will change (and thus not be permanent), feel free to impart unto me your wisdom.
    I'm not making the weak-arsed outburst here. You've utterly failed in any post to support your silly claim that this is a permanent change. You've made the claim, support it or it falls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    This is your talking point.
    No its your talking point. You have failed to support it.

    Likewise your astounding assertion that "racial clientism" (or if you prefer the less traditional "racial clientelism") is something new to US politics is also completely unsupported and so falls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    [you used Google to spellcheck a word LOL]
    You brought a search engine to a dictionary fight, after all that high-hat about semantics. A screen shot of Google. That's your defence?

    My "immense wisdom' is don't post nonsense you can't support. And get a dictionary.

    Seriously old chap the Oxford English Dictionary is the premiere resource for the meaning of and spelling of words in our beautiful language. You can get a copy of the shorter version for a few hundred bucks, even older editions remain extremely useful, and an on-line subscription is also a worthwhile investment. It'll save you the humiliation of not knowing actual English words that have been in use for centuries, and having weaksauce "gotchas" explode in your face making you look like you're ignorant of the meaning of words that have been in use for centuries.

    The question of racial clientism in US politics is interesting. Have you not heard of Tammany Hall? The US has produced numerous instances of "race' based voting blocs. Many have in fact been aligned Democrat. Its demonstrably not true that this is a new development, either for the Democrat party in particular or for US politics in general.

    So to sum up, "Race Clientism" not new. Not demonstrably permanent. Google not a dictionary.
    Last edited by pacifism; November 27, 2020 at 03:56 AM. Reason: continuity
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  7. #2747
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Do either of you have a point about the politics? Or do you just want to banter on about the election that's been at least halfway certified?
    Yeah, no point to this thread anymore. Except...
    I guess it's ok to gloat a little now: LOLOLOLOLOSER

  8. #2748
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm not making the weak-arsed outburst here. You've utterly failed in any post to support your silly claim that this is a permanent change. You've made the claim, support it or it falls.



    No its your talking point. You have failed to support it.

    Likewise your astounding assertion that "racial clientism" (or if you prefer the less traditional "racial clientelism") is something new to US politics is also completely unsupported and so falls.



    You brought a search engine to a dictionary fight, after all that high-hat about semantics. A screen shot of Google. That's your defence?

    My "immense wisdom' is don't post nonsense you can't support. And get a dictionary.

    Seriously old chap the Oxford English Dictionary is the premiere resource for the meaning of and spelling of words in our beautiful language. You can get a copy of the shorter version for a few hundred bucks, even older editions remain extremely useful, and an on-line subscription is also a worthwhile investment. It'll save you the humiliation of not knowing actual English words that have been in use for centuries, and having weaksauce "gotchas" explode in your face making you look like you're ignorant of the meaning of words that have been in use for centuries.

    The question of racial clientism in US politics is interesting. Have you not heard of Tammany Hall? The US has produced numerous instances of "race' based voting blocs. Many have in fact been aligned Democrat. Its demonstrably not true that this is a new development, either for the Democrat party in particular or for US politics in general.

    So to sum up, "Race Clientism" not new. Not demonstrably permanent. Google not a dictionary.
    Looks like my initial inclination as to the object of your irrelevant carping was correct; that you concede the point (thus nothing further for me to support) and opt instead to reference historical examples of other corrupt behavior as a false equivalence. If anything, your decision to equate the Democrats’ racial clientelism to an infamous mob like political syndicate is an even more harsh indictment than the complaint I made

  9. #2749

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    The first of the long awaited lawsuits by Sidney Powell have been filed. One in Michigan and one in Georgia. The press has been saying "the is no evidence of fraud" for weeks now. I wonder how they're going to spin this new development:

    https://defendingtherepublic.org/wp-...11.25.2020.pdf

    It just incredible the things that were uncovered in such a short amount of time. For me, being a veteran, the most outrageous thing was that 900 absentee military ballots from just one county were all counted for Joe Biden. It defies belief.

    As an addendum, I have to wonder out loud just how many revolutions in countries using Dominion voting machines and software are going to take place with the revelations coming out.
    I loved the typographical, spelling, and grammatical errors myself. It's like not only did the president and the president's legal team distance themselves from her, but her entire profession distanced themselves from her and she's long since forgotten how to write a legal document.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  10. #2750
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Looks like my initial inclination as to the object of your irrelevant carping was correct; that you concede the point (thus nothing further for me to support) and opt instead to reference historical examples of other corrupt behavior as a false equivalence.
    You made the claims. You haven't supported them. Not permanent, and not new.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    If anything, your decision to equate the Democrats’ racial clientelism to an infamous mob like political syndicate is an even more harsh indictment than the complaint I made
    ...thats the point.

    Not sure if you're even aware of the racial implications of the term Mob, but its possible given so many gaps in your arguments. Sadly your posts combine poor faith argument and ignorance to such a degree they are a waste of time responding to.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  11. #2751
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    You made the claims. You haven't supported them. Not permanent, and not new.


    ...thats the point.

    Not sure if you're even aware of the racial implications of the term Mob, but its possible given so many gaps in your arguments. Sadly your posts combine poor faith argument and ignorance to such a degree they are a waste of time responding to.
    Predicating the permanence or novelty of the Democrats’ racial clientelism on a false equivalence just undermines whatever point you’re trying to make, as does your irrelevant rants about etymology, and further underscores the bad faith argumentation you would so vigorously project onto a point of fact you’ve already conceded. Reminding a wordsmith such as yourself that “clientelism” is the modern usage of the older term doesn’t require a subscription to a dictionary that still hosts the older term as an option. I've made plenty of typos in my time, and if I make a mistake and get caught I try to thank the person (they have after all done me a service): not telling you what to do of course.

    Last edited by Legio_Italica; November 27, 2020 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Fun with dictionaries

  12. #2752
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I loved the typographical, spelling, and grammatical errors myself. It's like not only did the president and the president's legal team distance themselves from her, but her entire profession distanced themselves from her and she's long since forgotten how to write a legal document.
    I noticed them too. They were pretty minor, especially when you consider that there were several of these lawsuits filed in different states with different laws. I've seen much worse in the New York Times and other so called "credible" publications.

    But if you want to make that your standard don't post any more links to the NYT, CNN, MSNBC, Mother Jones, or any other left-wing source you normally use.

    On the other hand, the evidence is damming. The Georgia election certification will have to be de-certified or no one will ever trust the election system in that state again. The same goes for the other states that have questionable results.

    There's a reason why Texas didn't certify Dominion election machines and it's public information. In fact, it may turn out that the biggest mistake the Dems made was to try and sell those machines to the state of Texas.

  13. #2753

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    I noticed them too. They were pretty minor, especially when you consider that there were several of these lawsuits filed in different states with different laws. I've seen much worse in the New York Times and other so called "credible" publications.

    But if you want to make that your standard don't post any more links to the NYT, CNN, MSNBC, Mother Jones, or any other left-wing source you normally use.

    On the other hand, the evidence is damming. The Georgia election certification will have to be de-certified or no one will ever trust the election system in that state again. The same goes for the other states that have questionable results.

    There's a reason why Texas didn't certify Dominion election machines and it's public information. In fact, it may turn out that the biggest mistake the Dems made was to try and sell those machines to the state of Texas.
    So why did they hand the printed copy to the local official if it didn't match what they punched on the touch screen? Why did the officials certify it if the printed copies didn't match the electronic numbers?

    Is she ready to answer these questions?

    Hell, for this forum, are you ready to answer these questions? Or are you just spouting off conspiracies?
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  14. #2754
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    The thing is, do they actually have *evidence*, that magical word that has been recently following "a lack of", which is why the cases keep getting dismissed by both conservative and liberal judges.

    As far as I care this is just further proof that they are just shotgunning out lawsuits left and right in order to throw as much as possible at the wall to see what sticks. It's sad, and the fact that she is the best legal mind (along with Leaky Giuliani) that Team Tyranny can come up with just leads me to shake my head. What a sad, pathetic cult Jim Jones Jr has devolved into.

    Maybe more donations are needed? I'll see if I can convince more of my conservative friends to throw what little money they have at the burning fire. That will surely help. Pretty sure one has already proudly donated half his paycheck this month. Sucks to be his kids.

    On another note, I have convinced my conservative half sibling (long story) that lives in Georgia that he should try to write in Trump during the runoffs. Pretty sure there isn't even a space for that on their ballots but hey he doesn't know that
    “Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over airports, it did everything it had to do. And at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, had nothing but victory. When dawn came, the star-spangled banner waved defiant.”
    ---President Goodbrain on the American Revolution

  15. #2755
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Well, no, of course not.

    The lawsuits are ridiculous, Giuliani has made himself a laughing stock and Trump gets laughed out of the White House, like the total fool he is. Hell, the entire USA has been a laughing stock for the past 4 years. *shrug*

    Time to face reality, fellas. What the hell. The planet keeps rotating, suck it up already, it's over and done.

  16. #2756
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    The thing is, do they actually have *evidence*, that magical word that has been recently following "a lack of", which is why the cases keep getting dismissed by both conservative and liberal judges.
    As far as I care this is just further proof that they are just shotgunning out lawsuits left and right in order to throw as much as possible at the wall to see what sticks. It's sad, and the fact that she is the best legal mind (along with Leaky Giuliani) that Team Tyranny can come up with just leads me to shake my head. What a sad, pathetic cult Jim Jones Jr has devolved into.

    Maybe more donations are needed? I'll see if I can convince more of my conservative friends to throw what little money they have at the burning fire. That will surely help. Pretty sure one has already proudly donated half his paycheck this month. Sucks to be his kids.

    On another note, I have convinced my conservative half sibling (long story) that lives in Georgia that he should try to write in Trump during the runoffs. Pretty sure there isn't even a space for that on their ballots but hey he doesn't know that
    To clarify: in the same post that you argue voter fraud is a fantasy, you admit to manipulating one of your own family members into spoiling his ballot in order to supress his vote?

  17. #2757

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    To clarify: in the same post that you argue voter fraud is a fantasy, you admit to manipulating one of your own family members into spoiling his ballot in order to supress his vote?

    Write-in candidates are perfectly legal. And if manipulating a gullible idiot to throw their vote away is fraud, arrest the entire Republican party.

  18. #2758
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    I don't recall "Telling family members to do something they probably can't do anyway" counts as voter fraud but sure.

    And realistically it was more of a them asking if they should do it and me telling them there is no harm in trying if they really want to do it.

    Why would I stop them? None of my Trump cultist relatives have listened to me when I try to talk them out of their ways or show them how they are wrong. If they want to listen to whoever gave them the idea, I'm not going to stand in the way of that. Given the history I have had with talking to these people over the last four years, me telling them NOT to do it is more likely to want to MAKE them do it.
    “Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over airports, it did everything it had to do. And at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, had nothing but victory. When dawn came, the star-spangled banner waved defiant.”
    ---President Goodbrain on the American Revolution

  19. #2759
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    I don't recall "Telling family members to do something they probably can't do anyway" counts as voter fraud but sure.
    Suppression and fraud are committed in the same spirit: to deny or inhibit a person’s right to political expression.

    And realistically it was more of a them asking if they should do it and me telling them there is no harm in trying if they really want to do it.

    Why would I stop them? None of my Trump cultist relatives have listened to me when I try to talk them out of their ways or show them how they are wrong. If they want to listen to whoever gave them the idea, I'm not going to stand in the way of that. Given the history I have had with talking to these people over the last four years, me telling them NOT to do it is more likely to want to MAKE them do it.
    People ignored your proselytizing. What a tragedy. Retribution is certainly warranted.

  20. #2760

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    I noticed them too. They were pretty minor, especially when you consider that there were several of these lawsuits filed in different states with different laws. I've seen much worse in the New York Times and other so called "credible" publications.

    But if you want to make that your standard don't post any more links to the NYT, CNN, MSNBC, Mother Jones, or any other left-wing source you normally use.

    On the other hand, the evidence is damming. The Georgia election certification will have to be de-certified or no one will ever trust the election system in that state again. The same goes for the other states that have questionable results.

    There's a reason why Texas didn't certify Dominion election machines and it's public information. In fact, it may turn out that the biggest mistake the Dems made was to try and sell those machines to the state of Texas.
    I'm going to say this one more time. The Dominion system was installed in Georgia because for years there have been sketchy elections and suspicions of manipulating votes. The Dominion system was chosen because there is a paper copy of each ballot, being virtually impossible to flip a vote. It's called a paper trail and is an extremely effective way to ensure accuracy. This insane conspiracy has been investigated and debunked a hundred times. But instead of believing the election was free and fair as has been proven ad nauseum, you Trumpers just keep hanging onto this irrational lunacy that is subverting Democracy and destroying and dividing this country you claim to love. You all have chosen to forgo all logical thinking, all solid evidence presented to you for the last 3 weeks with case after case thrown out for frivolity, even by Trump-appointed judges and otherwise loyal Trump supporters, and instead make paranoid, unhinged claims that these loyalists are turncoats, working with the deep state, Dominion, Soros, ect.

    Listen to yourselves. Back before Reagan shut down the mental institutions, such mad ravings would be treated as proof positive of insanity.

    For the love of God... Just admit you lost and move on with your lives.

    In other news:

    Donor sues pro-Trump group over failure to prove voter fraud: 'Empty promises'

    A donor has sued a pro-Trump group for $2.5 million over “empty promises” after he says it failed to prove voter fraud in the presidential election.
    Fred Eshelman sued Houston-based True the Vote Inc., which promised to “investigate, litigate and expose suspected illegal balloting ad fraud in the 2020 general election,” Bloomberg reported.
    Eshelman, founder of Eshelman Ventures LLC, claimed that he “regularly and repeatedly” asked for updates on the initiative but was met with “vague responses, platitudes, and empty promises.”
    True the Vote said its efforts included filing lawsuits in several swing states, collecting whistleblower complaints, increasing GOP legislative support in key states and conducting “sophisticated data modeling and statistical analysis to identify potential illegal or fraudulent balloting,” according to the suit in Houston federal court.
    Eshelman decided to wire True the Vote $2 million on Nov. 5 and another $500,000 a week later after the group’s president said more money would be needed to achieve their goals, according to the suit. He asked for his money to be returned after the group failed to provide reports on its progress, saying it became obvious the group would not be able to execute its plan.
    Eshelman said in the complaint that True the Vote offered him $1 million if he wouldn’t sue them, Bloomberg notes.
    Have you not seen how this man treats his cultic followers? Your purpose is to chant for him, worship him, lie for him, and then send him all your money for him to pocket.

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